Oral Answers to Questions
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(10 years, 6 months ago)
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The Solicitor-General
The right hon. Gentleman and I share a continuing interest in, and passion for, reforming the law on stalking and harassment and ensuring that implementation is carried out. I am able to update him. As of 31 December last year, 1,402 CPS employees had undergone the training.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
6. What recent discussions he has had with the Service Prosecution Authority on its effectiveness in prosecuting rape and other sexual offences in the armed forces which took place (a) in the UK and (b) overseas.
The Solicitor-General (Mr Robert Buckland)
The Attorney-General and I meet the director of service prosecutions regularly and discuss casework issues at those meetings, including the prosecution of rape and other sexual offences, whether they are alleged to have been committed here or overseas. The Service Prosecution Authority has adopted CPS best practice guidelines to make sure that sexual offences are prosecuted to the highest standard.
Phil Wilson
Does the Minister agree that decisions to prosecute allegations of rape and sexual assault in the military should be subject to an independent review, given that only five cases of alleged rape were prosecuted in 2013?
The Solicitor-General
It is difficult to compare the CPS with the SPA because the sheer number of cases before the SPA will be much lower. When it comes to decision making on prosecution, CPS best practice is replicated in the SPA, and joint training and a lot of joint working takes place. The problems identified by the Liberty report, among others, are more to do with the investigation of offences as opposed to their prosecution.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(10 years, 7 months ago)
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The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Obviously, this Government are pioneering the idea of free tests. We think that is very important. We need to tackle HIV and AIDS not just in our country, but around the world. That is also why we have put so much money into antiretroviral drugs.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
Can the Prime Minister envisage any circumstances in which he would lead the no campaign in an EU referendum?
The Prime Minister
Unlike the Labour party, I have set out what I want to achieve, which is a renegotiation and then a referendum. I think Britain is better off inside a reformed European Union. I have to ask Labour Members, “What are you frightened of?” We say, “Trust the people, and let the people decide.”
European Council
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(11 years ago)
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The Prime Minister
I know and respect that, whatever deal I manage to achieve, my hon. Friend will vote for Britain to leave the European Union, because that is his long-held and deeply felt view. As I explained in answer to an earlier question, the conditions today are very different from those in 1975. Then, of course, Britain had just joined the EU—there was no great change that had taken place in the EU—but this time, since I have been a Member of Parliament, we have had the treaties of Nice, Amsterdam and Lisbon, and huge changes in terms of the eurozone and its development. I was told when I became Prime Minister, “It’s very unlikely, Prime Minister, that you’ll have to deal with any treaty changes at all,” but I think we have already seen three in the past four years. I am confident that, because change is needed throughout the EU, Britain can secure the changes we need.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
Saturday’s Financial Times editorial said:
“Europe’s leaders should look beyond Mr Cameron’s ineptitude”.
Does the Prime Minister agree?
The Prime Minister
Funnily enough, I do not agree with that. I think that what Europe’s leaders will do is conclude that when they are dealing with Britain, they are dealing with a country that sticks to its principles.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(12 years ago)
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The Prime Minister
Those committing war crimes should always be brought to justice. I have raised the issue of support for the M23 with President Kagame on a number of occasions. We need to bear that in mind in looking at our aid programme, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development has done.
I think we should also recognise—this goes across parties in this House—that British investment in aid in Rwanda has created one of the great success stories of African development over the last decade. We should continue to invest in that success and lift people out of poverty while delivering a very clear message to President Kagame at the same time.
The Prime Minister
All Members of Parliament have the clearest possible duty to their constituents. Let me make this point. Do I think the House of Commons benefits from people like the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) and his experience? Do I think the House of Commons benefits from the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), who comes to this House with his experience? I think we do benefit. I am not sure that we benefit from my immediate predecessor, but there are Opposition Members who give good service to this House.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
1. What recent assessment he has made of the performance of the Serious Fraud Office.
Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)
8. What recent assessment he has made of the performance of the Serious Fraud Office.
The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)
Her Majesty’s Crown Prosecution Service inspectorate has been asked to carry out an inspection of the Serious Fraud Office. It is intended that the inspection should assist the new director, and it has been timed accordingly. In my superintendent’s role, I have regular meetings with the director and other senior officials.
Phil Wilson
The Attorney-General has said that he does not plan to publish the results of the current review into the operation of the Serious Fraud Office. Will he give his reasons for that and reconsider his current plan to keep us and the public in the dark on this issue?
The Attorney-General
It is not accurate to say that I have indicated that the report will not be published. The position is that such reports are not normally published, but due to the unusual and understandable level of interest, I think it important that as much as possible should be put into the public domain. I will make it my business to ensure that that happens. I should explain that the reason it may not be possible to publish all of it is that there have to be safeguards to prevent prejudice to ongoing investigations, but subject to that, I would wish to see the results made available.
Regional Pay
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Rachel Reeves
Perhaps those 10,500 public sector workers can give their verdict at the ballot box. Yes, we do need a private sector recovery, but we will not achieve that by cutting the pay of the people who deliver our public services.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
Can we put to bed the idea that public sector jobs crowd out private sector jobs? Between 2003 and 2008 the number of public sector jobs increased by 4.1% and the number of private sector jobs went up by 9.2%. That belies the case that the Government always make that public sector jobs crowd out private sector jobs.
Phil Wilson
I think the Minister has been a bit selective in quoting Treasury Ministers in the previous Government. Treasury guidance notes put out by Ministers in 2003 also stated:
“At the extreme, local pay in theory could mean devolved pay…to local bodies. In practice, extremely devolved arrangements are not desirable. There are risks of workers being treated differently for no good reason. There could be dangers of leapfrogging and parts of the public sector competing against each other for the best staff.”
In other words, the previous Labour Government were never going to do what this Government intend to do now.
Mr Maude
Given that the hon. Gentleman has not given me the chance to talk about our plans and approach, perhaps he will be patient and contain himself until that moment.
As I was about to say, nothing has yet been decided. Any proposals for each work force must be based on strong evidence. We want to hear from everyone with a contribution to make, and we are committed to making any future decision on the basis of evidence, which is the right way to approach the matter. That is why we have invited the various pay review bodies to consider the matter on that basis.
However, as I said earlier, we are not the only Government to think that there is a case for looking at this issue. The case was recognised by the last Government, and they gave it, I presume, serious thought. Indeed, in 2003, the then Chancellor announced a stronger local dimension to pay review body remits, noting that there was significant scope to increase the flexibility and responsiveness of public sector pay. He told the House:
“With this national framework for fairness in place, it makes sense to recognise that a more considered approach to local and regional conditions in pay offers the best modern route to full employment”.—[Official Report, 9 June 2003; Vol. 406, c. 412.]
Does anyone on the Opposition Benches disagree with that? It seems a considered and sensible approach to me.
Mr Burley
I want the private sector in the west midlands to flourish. One of the most astonishing facts I have learned since becoming an MP is that between 1997 and 2007 the number of jobs in the private sector in the entire west midlands region fell. During the boom years of the hon. Gentleman’s Government, private sector employment went down, and I do not want to crowd out private sector growth in the west midlands. That is why this regional pay debate is so important.
I read an amazing article on the ConservativeHome website, with which I totally disagreed. It stated:
“Many Tory MPs with small majorities need to keep as many public sector workers onside as possible in order to keep their seats at the next election…For this reason, expect Lib Dems and low-majority Tory MPs to have grave concerns about any regional pay proposals—and expect the plans to be significantly changed or dropped altogether.”
Well, I am a low-majority Tory MP, and I believe this House is at its best when it is at its boldest, and I would be greatly saddened if everything we did was driven by narrow regard for our own majorities and saving our own skin and seats.
The fact that the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), read out the number of state workers in each of our constituencies says all we need to know about Labour’s approach: stuff their mouths with gold and buy votes. That is the approach of the Labour party, and the hon. Lady did precisely that tonight.
We must do what is right for the country, and what is right for the country is for the Government to do everything they can to enable the private sector to flourish, so that it can pay the taxes that fund the vital public services that all our constituents rely on, not just fund the pay of the public sector workers who happen to live in our constituencies.
Phil Wilson
What advice would the hon. Gentleman give to his party colleague, the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), who has a substantial majority and who has said that there is no economic case for regional pay?
Mr Burley
I am sure we will hear from my hon. Friend in due course, and I will let him make his own arguments, but in the very short time I have left I want to focus on the principle behind this debate, which is whether there are different costs of living in different parts of the country and, if so, whether that should be reflected in state pay. The simple answer to both those questions is yes.
Someone commented in response to the ConservativeHome article to which I have referred:
“Perhaps an experiment over a 2 year period to prove Regional Salaries are such a great idea? Begin with MPs and their staff. No doubt they will jump at the chance to lead by example?”
I propose to do exactly that. I have to hand the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority bandings for accommodation expenditure—the amount that can be claimed by MPs to live in their constituency. Guess what? Yes, they vary by constituency. As MP for Cannock Chase I could claim £10,950 a year to pay my rent and bills, if I were to claim expenses for living locally, which I do not. The Member for Cambridge can claim £15,150—nearly 50% more than I can claim. The Members for North Somerset and North West Hampshire can claim £13,750, whereas the Member of North Swindon can claim just £12,350. So there we have it: there is regional variation in what MPs can claim to live, based on the cost of living in their area. If it is good enough for MPs, why should it not be reflected in the pay packets of other public sector workers?
Let us examine the arrangements for employing our staff. If I employ a senior caseworker in the London area, I have to pay him £23,000 to £31,000. If I employ him in my constituency, I have to pay him only £19,000 to £28,000. A senior parliamentary assistant can be paid up to £42,000 in London, whereas they can start on just £30,000 in my constituency. So the answer to the blogger is that MPs and their staff are already subject to regional variations in pay and allowances, and are living proof of the established principle of regional pay born out of different regional costs of living.
Let us put it the other way round: if the Opposition truly believe in national pay bargaining and public sector salaries being set nationally, will they intervene on me now to say that my staff in London should have their salaries reduced to match those of my staff in Cannock? Or should I be able to claim as much to live in a house in Cannock as to live a house in Cambridge? Of course not. Today’s debate is about whether public sector pay should be relative to private sector wages, and the simple truth is that it must.
The shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury has said that regional pay will
“prove costly to the public purse and exacerbate regional inequalities”.
On the contrary, crowding out the private sector in the regions of our country is what will exacerbate regional inequalities, and setting a higher than locally appropriate wage bill means that public sector money is not allocated as effectively as it could be within local areas. I noted that she did not reply to the quote in my intervention, so I will repeat it to her now. Unison has said in its location-based pay differentiation paper of September 2011 that
“location-based pay systems offer increased flexibility and a systematic approach to addressing recruitment and retention issues at a local level.”
Government Members agree with Unison in that analysis, and I shall be interested to hear whether any Labour Members, many of whom will doubtless be taking donations from Unison to their constituency Labour parties, also do.
The Government are right to look at more local, market-facing pay and to end the anomaly of national pay bargaining—
Jessica Morden
We are pushed for time, and if I give way, I will prevent someone else from getting in, so I will kindly say no.
We have had 9,000 public sector job cuts in Wales, and there are 39,000 more to come, according to the TUC. The stock argument for the Government’s proposal is that it would allow the private sector to grow by enabling it to compete with the public sector for staff. This is clearly nonsense in constituencies such as mine, where any move on regional pay would hurt the economy, including the private sector.
Jessica Morden
I will give way to my hon. Friend, because he will not get a chance to make a speech, whereas the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley) has already spoken.
Phil Wilson
I hope that the hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss) understands that Opposition Members know about globalisation and its effect on the private sector. Hitachi, a big global company, is coming to the north-east of England, but it is not considering local pay; it is considering sectoral pay rates and skills, and looking across the train-building industry. It is not looking locally.
Jessica Morden
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I am sorry he has not had a chance to make his contribution. He is exactly right.
The TUC has estimated that a 1% reduction in public sector pay could result in £97 million being taken out of the Welsh economy. In constituencies such as mine, the public and private sectors are inextricably linked, and money taken out of the public sector hurts the private sector. Members should not just take our word for it; over the past few weeks, the Federation of Small Businesses in Wales has come out in opposition to regional pay. We saw this firsthand in Newport, when the Government were forced to concede over closing Newport passport office with the possible loss of 300 jobs. The Government conceded then that the closure would have a huge impact on our local economy, and many small local businesses were right at the heart of the campaign to keep the passport office open, because they knew full well that their livelihoods depended on it.
There are 23,000 public sector workers in Newport. It has a lot of public sector jobs precisely because of the previous Government’s policy, following the Lyons review, of moving jobs from the south-east to rebalance the economy. As a result, our major employers, as well as the NHS and the local authority, are the Office for National Statistics, the Prison Service and the Intellectual Property Office, to name but a few. This has been a boost to our city and is a real success story. As an ONS worker said to me recently, however, does paying him less mean that the private sector in Newport will suddenly be clamouring for statisticians? We both thought not.
Of course, regional pay is plain unfair. I have a border constituency. If I have two teachers in my constituency, one working in Caldicot, the other in Bristol, with the same skills and experience but paid differently, that is clearly unfair. Let us remember that these people are not hugely well paid—they are often on wages of about £20,000—and would find it difficult to move jobs if this measure was implemented.
Finally, comparing private and public sector pay is not comparing like with like. There are more people with higher qualifications in the public sector than in the private sector, and women, who make up 64% of the public sector work force in Wales and 87% of part-time workers, have very much benefited from the previous Government’s efforts on equal pay. I ask the Government please not to target these women and roll back progress on them. Regional pay, local market-facing pay, or whatever the Government want to call it, will be a race to the bottom on lower pay, and create higher unemployment and more business failures. It is a real pity that we do not have a Secretary of State for Wales willing to stand up and say that.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for that generous offer.
We have heard from Government Members that, on the one hand, we introduced regional pay, yet on the other hand that we have a one-size-fits-all system, making it either one or the other. As far as I am concerned, this is not about public sector versus private sector; it is about what is fair for people in whatever sector they happen to work in. Let us think about the situation in County Durham. Unemployment in Sedgefield has risen by nearly 25% in the last year, and the number of people out of work for more than six months has risen by 100%. Moreover, 120,000 households in County Durham will be hit by benefit changes which will take £151 million from the local economy. The average wage is £418 a week, which is well below the national average. Regional pay will not benefit local businesses, because there will no longer be any drive for people to buy anything that is manufactured or created in the area. As for the idea that there are no national pay schemes in the private sector, Tesco has one and so has Nissan. They will not be looking only at local pay rates; they will be looking at the sector in other parts of the country as well, and also at skills.
I believe that this proposal is ideologically driven, and that it makes no economic sense whatsoever. I agree with the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman). Early-day motion 55, which I sponsored, was signed by Members on both sides of the House, and it is clear that there is a great deal of cross-party opposition to the measure. I strongly urge the Government to withdraw it and to think about what is fair to not just the public sector but the private sector, because this measure will damage both sectors if it goes ahead.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
3. What recent discussions he has had on the types of Government funding models available to the voluntary and community sector.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
13. What recent discussions he has had on the types of Government funding models available to the voluntary and community sector.
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
We want to help the voluntary and community sector to become more resilient by developing three pillars of funding: traditional giving, income from the state including more opportunities to deliver public service and a new pillar, the emerging market of social investment.
Mr Speaker
No. The hon. Gentleman asks his supplementary question now, although it would have been helpful if there had been advance notification of the grouping to my office, which there was not. Very regrettable. The Minister must do better in the future, I am afraid.
Phil Wilson
A survey commissioned by Charity Bank has revealed that more than 20% of charities have suffered from the cancellation of contracts with businesses and Government bodies in the past year. Does the Minister agree that the Government’s refusal to recognise the needs and benefits of charities and voluntary organisations in policy formulation is preventing such organisations from getting vital funding to which they are entitled?
Mr Hurd
First, Mr Speaker, I apologise to you formally for that oversight by my office.
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Any commissioner in the public sector needs to engage with stakeholders in communities before commissioning services—not least in the voluntary and community sector, whose stakeholders tend to have, on the whole, a much better understanding of the needs of the people we are trying to help.
Trade Union Officials (Public Funding)
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(13 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Burley
I will give way in a minute.
In addition, union learning representatives are entitled to paid time off for duties including analysing learning or training needs, providing information about learning and training matters, arranging learning or training or promoting the values of learning and training. I ask the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland, who is chuntering, is not all that the job of the human resources department?
In 2004—[Interruption.] Just be quiet. In 2004, the Labour Government made a commitment to boost the number of union learning representatives in the work force to 20,000, a threefold increase. The upshot is that a significant number of union representatives—nearly 2,500 full-time equivalents—are fully paid for by public funds. That means that the trade unions themselves do not bear their own representation costs.
Phil Wilson
Speaking as somebody who in the early 1980s was a member of the Civil and Public Services Association and received facility time to work as a trade union representative, may I say that where I worked was 90%-plus union organised, and we did not have any strikes? We had a great working relationship in the building, because we could sit down and talk through problems with the management, who enjoyed it. If we started where the hon. Gentleman wants, we would end up where part of my union ended up. In 1984, the CPSA was banned from GCHQ—
James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Should Opposition Members declare their interest if they have received union funding in their capacity as Members of this House, or for political campaigns, before making interventions? I would be grateful if you could clarify the rules on that matter.
Oral Answers to Questions
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(13 years, 9 months ago)
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The Deputy Prime Minister
One of the virtues of individual voter registration—the reason, I assume, why the previous Government were keen to introduce it as well—is precisely that there will be an individual responsibility on voters in the future, including students, to make sure that they are properly registered. As long as we make sure that there is still, as I said there will be, face-to-face household canvassing, there is no reason why this experiment and this introduction of individual voter registration should not lead to an increase in the registration of students.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
How did the Government make the calculation that the new police commissioners should earn £120,000 a year?
The Deputy Prime Minister
Police commissioners’ pay is still to be finalised, but the key thing is that the elections, which will be held next autumn, will give people a real sense of accountability over policing in their local areas.
Open Public Services White Paper
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield Excerpts(14 years ago)
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Mr Letwin
My hon. Friend makes a good and interesting point, and there may well be cases in which that is the appropriate method. I know that he is a serious student of these matters. Perhaps when he has had time to read the White Paper, he would like to discuss where that idea might apply. We are certainly more than willing to entertain it.
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)
The Minister said in his statement that the White Paper “sets out the most radical programme of transparency for Government and the public sector anywhere in the world.” Will that apply to private sector companies and other organisations that might end up running public services?
Mr Letwin
It will apply to every public service provider, regardless of sector. We are interested not in who the provider is, but in whether the service provided is a good one. In every instance we will be totally transparent about the quality of services, and will enable people to make choices on that basis. If the private sector cannot match the voluntary or public sector, people will choose to take the offerings of one of those sectors, and that is as it should be.