Universal Credit (Removal of Two Child Limit) Bill

Debate between Pat McFadden and Desmond Swayne

2nd reading & Money resolution
Tuesday 3rd February 2026 Commons Chamber

[Pat McFadden]

I will come on to the timing of our decision, and exactly why it is right.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

rose—

[Pat McFadden]

Not at the moment.

As I said, around half the families who will benefit were not on universal credit when they had any of their children. These are people who found themselves in need of help long after any decisions about family size had been taken.

No account was taken of the costs of the policy further down the line, such as lower educational attainment, worse mental health and lower earnings, perhaps for the whole of people’s working lives.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

rose—

[Pat McFadden]

The right hon. Gentleman is very keen, so I will give way.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

It appears that those 300,000 were in poverty a year ago, but the Secretary of State has allowed that to persist till now. What has changed? It is not the fiscal situation, and it is not any room in the benefits budget. This is the Labour equivalent of Project Save Big Dog, is it not?

[Pat McFadden]

Timing matters, and if the right hon. Gentleman shows a little patience, I will tell him exactly why we have done this in the timeframe that we have.

All the policy did was force more children into poverty, alongside the Conservatives’ other key welfare measure of trapping the sick out of work. Even some voices on the right recognise the damage that this policy did. Former Tory Welfare Minister Lord Freud described it as “vicious” and said it had been forced on the Department for Work and Pensions by the Treasury at the time, and the former Conservative Home Secretary and new recruit for Reform, the right hon. and learned Member for Fareham and Waterlooville (Suella Braverman), has said,

“Let’s abolish the two-child limit, eradicate child poverty for good”.

I do not know whether that is still her position—we will find out at tonight’s vote—but it seems that the party she has now joined wants to restore the two-child limit. Reform is importing not just failed Tory politicians, but failed Tory policies.

Between 2010, when the Conservatives came into office, and the summer of 2024 when they left it, the number of children in poverty had risen by some 900,000. That is something to ponder as Members on the Opposition Benches have their debate about whether or not Britain is broken. If it is, who was responsible? Who designed the welfare system that they tell us on a daily basis is broken? They did. Who broke the prisons system that we have had to rescue? They did. Who shook international confidence in our economy and its key institutions? They did. This is the inescapable problem with the Conservatives’ current position: an attack line that says, “We trashed the country and left you with a terrible inheritance,” might just not be the winning argument they think it is. Let them have their debate about whether Britain is broken while we get on with the task of fixing what they left behind.

Government Resilience Action Plan

Debate between Pat McFadden and Desmond Swayne

Tuesday 8th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Pat McFadden]

That is a good question. It is really important that we learn from the experience of the pandemic a few years ago, but we must not fall into the trap, as I said, of assuming that the next emergency will be exactly the same. We have to be flexible in our response. The next emergency, and indeed the next pandemic, may be quite different in character from the one that we went through a few years ago.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Will the preparations take into account the lasting, disastrous consequences of lockdown, and the blithering absurdity of face coverings?

[Pat McFadden]

The preparations should take everything into account.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Pat McFadden and Desmond Swayne

Thursday 6th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Pat McFadden]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the work that he did on public sector productivity. It was probably essential given that in the eight years between 2016 and 2024 the previous Government employed an extra 131,000 civil servants, so it is quite right that we look at the productivity for the extra employment sanctioned by the last Government.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Does the Minister have an appetite for a policy of like-for-like retaliation when a cyber-attack by a hostile state is confirmed?

[Pat McFadden]

I have both appetite and full faith in our excellent intelligence and security services, who protect us every day.