Gender Recognition

Debate between Neil O'Brien and Kemi Badenoch

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

I completely reject the right hon. Gentleman’s assertion. I have come to the Floor of the House for an SI, which is unusual for a Secretary of State, because I think it is important that Members across the House have the opportunity to ask questions. I am not afraid of anybody on the Opposition Benches. I am not afraid of a single one of them, because I know that they do not take this seriously. The right hon. Gentleman asks why we have fallen. It is because self-ID is something that we differ in opinion with from other countries—[Interruption.] It is. It is a fact. We are different. But just because other countries believe that self-ID is the way does not mean that we in the UK have to do what everybody else is doing.

[Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con)]

The issues of gender recognition and self-ID that my right hon. Friend is working to clarify are increasingly an issue in amateur and professional sports, with the risk of serious injury to women and girls and also examples of unfairness. Does she agree that, in general, for most sports, it is safer and fairer to separate on the basis of biological sex?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I do agree. Certainly in the majority of physical sports it is fairer and safer to separate on the basis of biological sex, and it is crucial that sporting bodies understand their responsibilities to women. A poor understanding of equalities law has led to women such as the pool player Lynne Pinches having to take legal action to ensure fair competition in their sport, and girls often fear being physically injured by biological males. Rather than speaking up about the abuse, they endure it because they are scared of being called bigots. I would say to people across the House that calling people transphobic and calling them bigots when they express concern is creating a chilling effect. I had a group of schoolchildren, teenage girls, in my office who told me that because of mixed-sex sports they are bullied and pushed around—one of them talked about her glasses been broken—because the boys are using the opportunity to bully. We should think about children and we should think about protecting them, so I disagree with the labelling of anyone who has a different opinion as transphobic. That is what is causing the problems in this debate, and I am determined to bring some light rather than the heat that others continue to generate.

Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities

Debate between Neil O'Brien and Kemi Badenoch

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her question. I think I should again clarify what the commission says on the existence of racism. It states:

“Overt and outright racism persists in the UK. Examples of it loom larger in our minds because we witness it not just as graffiti on our walls or abuse hurled across our streets,”

but even in private settings.

On the over-representation of minority groups in stop-and-search, the commission looks at the causes and at where stop and search happens. It happens in London, which is where the vast majority of ethnic minorities live, compared with the rest of the country. That does have an impact on the data. The commission also puts forward recommendations on things we can do to build trust in the police to reduce the number of stop-and-searches that are required. I have forgotten the second point that the right hon. Lady raised, but I think it was in a similar vein.

Discrimination is not explained by disparities alone. Sometimes it is the case; sometimes it is not. Where it is the case, the commission has identified that; where it is not, it has put forward other potential explanations.

[Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con) [V]]

One of the refreshing things about the report is the careful balance between acknowledging the challenges that are still very real and the progress that is happening. Here in Leicestershire, that progress is very visible on wages and employment. Does my hon. Friend agree that if we are to make further progress it is essential to acknowledge the progress that has been made and to understand the causes—how, why and where this is happening—so that we can go further and make more progress?