English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill

Lord Gove Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 8th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, first I declare an interest as a recipient of a local government pension. I also congratulate my noble friend; having been a Local Government Minister for four years, I know how difficult any local government legislation is, as is anything that talks about devolution of any sort.

I thought it interesting that the Liberal Benches concentrated on the very local—that is important—but there is also a need for bigger and wider authorities to do the really strategic stuff. I am reminded of the reason that we were able to attract inward investment in the north-east, at one time. It was precisely because of the amassing of land by the Tyne and Wear metropolitan authority, which was then demolished and disbanded by the then Prime Minister Mrs Thatcher, when we lost that strategic organisation in the region. I want to dwell on those more strategic things.

First, and very quickly, I really support the attention given to the transfer of community assets. As many Members know, I am chairing an independent commission on neighbourhoods. I have used most Fridays in the past year to have another look at difficult neighbourhoods. Those which have been working on neighbourhood development have really made a difference when they have been able to use community assets and had more control to use them as income generators too, so that they do not have to wait all the time for the public sector to have enough money to fund their youth work and activities with the elderly, the lonely and so on. I really support the Government for pushing this on both sporting facilities and community assets.

But I mainly want to talk about something that is also in the Bill that, again, I have spoken on in this House before: the need for better accountability and audit of the regional bodies and combined authorities. I know there are Members opposite who celebrate the end of the Audit Commission, but the reality is that that has left significant groups and areas in our society without any effective audit and accountability. In the north-east, we have particularly suffered from this. I know that when the first combined authorities elected their mayors, the then chair of the Public Accounts Committee brought in the—

[Lord Gove (Con)]

I note carefully what the noble Baroness is saying. I presume that on that basis she deprecates the decision by the current Government to abolish the Office for Local Government, which was established by the previous Government.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

I think the noble Lord needs to hear my arguments first and then, when he comes to speak and in Committee, he can challenge them. The reality is that in the north-east we have really suffered. The then chair of the PAC called the newly elected mayors to advise them of the challenges they faced because the normal auditing process was not available to them, and that they would therefore have to make sure that they brought in people who understood the challenge of auditing books for public and private co-operation events and projects.

Some of them took notice. Unfortunately, the Tees Valley mayor did not. Had there been robust arrangements then, we would not have had the difficult circumstances that people in the Tees Valley have faced since. We now have the totally unjustified position of an arrangement having been made behind closed doors, with nobody aware of it, between two individuals and their families—they now live in Dubai, so even the money going to them is not being spent in the region any more—where the 50% public and 50% private benefit from any investment made was changed to 90% private and 10% public. This means that any investment and any return on that investment does not now go to local people; it goes to two developers who now live in Dubai and do not even spend that money locally any more.

We also have the position where land in the Tees Valley is earmarked for the major investment of a data centre. The Government are faced with a data centre they need and the public not being able to get the advantage of that investment. The mayor should rethink and renegotiate. I hope that by introducing the measures in the Bill, the Government will be able to make sure the public in the north-east actually get some benefit from the Government’s investment in that area.

Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Lord Gove Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 27th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

Unfortunately, I do not accept the Minister’s argument because, under the Government’s own remediation acceleration scheme, it will take another six or seven years for people to have their homes made safe. How is that right? We heard the compelling arguments from the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, about the 1.7 million leaseholders who will be required to pay many thousands of pounds to make their own homes safe when it is not their fault. It is not acceptable that we are still here, all these years after that awful fire at Grenfell Tower, trying to debate yet again what is going on.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords, I am hugely in sympathy with the noble Baroness in her aim but, as the author when I was in ministerial office of the responsible actors scheme, which was stoutly resisted by housing developers, I had to strike a balance between putting the squeeze on them—by making it clear that unless they acted to remediate, they would receive no planning permission whatever—and making sure that they could continue to build the houses we need. Have the noble Baroness and the supporters of this amendment looked at what the impact on the balance sheets of individual housebuilders might be, and what impact that would have on our current rate of buildout? Also, is it not the case that many of those who do not qualify at the moment for support for remediation—the so-called non-qualifying leaseholders—are people with extensive property portfolios? A line has to be drawn somewhere to ensure that those with significant wealth do not benefit, while those who do need support receive it.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Gove, for his intervention. He is right that when the scheme was established, it was on the basis of squeezing the housebuilders as far as they could go. However, if I remember the figure correctly, one of the major housebuilders has made an operating profit in the last year of £870 million. Call me a curmudgeon if you like, but if some of that could be used to fund making the dangerous flats they built safe for people to live in, I think that is not a bad call.

We have had the argument but I am not content with the answers I have got, so I wish to test the opinion of the House. I hope that those on the Conservative Benches will support those who have spoken strong and hard in favour of remediation schemes, and in favour of leaseholders, through the Lobby.

Grenfell Tower: Bureau Veritas

Lord Gove Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Of course, housing is devolved in Scotland, and it is up to Scottish Ministers to do what they need to. I am sure that my colleague from the Treasury sitting on the Bench with me has heard what my noble friend said and will take the necessary action.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her reply and take this opportunity to associate these Benches with the earlier comments and expressions of gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, for his ministerial service— proof, if it were needed, of the invaluable role hereditary members continue to play in this House.

The Grenfell inquiry report made it clear that Arconic, Saint-Gobain and Kingspan all had a direct responsibility for the death of the victims in that horrendous tragedy. Can the Minister assure us that the Government have no commercial relationship with any of those firms, government agencies will not enter into commercial relationships with any of those firms, and Ministers will not appear at events sponsored by those firms complicit in murder?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Before I answer the noble Lord’s question, I thank him for his comments about my noble friend Lord Ponsonby, but I point out to him that my noble friend is in fact a life Peer. We truly value his service.

In response to the question about public contracts, we are, of course, absolutely committed to exploring all available options to take action to hold to account those companies which were criticised by the inquiry. In that spirit, the Cabinet Office said it would launch investigations into seven organisations, using the new debarment powers that came in the Procurement Act 2023. I have to say, however, that the Met Police and the Crown Prosecution Service informed the Cabinet Office that debarment investigations might unintentionally prejudice the criminal investigation, so the Cabinet Office then concluded that it was right to pause the debarment investigations while the criminal investigation was going on. However, I completely understand the noble Lord’s point, and we will do all we can to make sure that those who are responsible are brought to account.