Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Lord Gove Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 27th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

Unfortunately, I do not accept the Minister’s argument because, under the Government’s own remediation acceleration scheme, it will take another six or seven years for people to have their homes made safe. How is that right? We heard the compelling arguments from the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, about the 1.7 million leaseholders who will be required to pay many thousands of pounds to make their own homes safe when it is not their fault. It is not acceptable that we are still here, all these years after that awful fire at Grenfell Tower, trying to debate yet again what is going on.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords, I am hugely in sympathy with the noble Baroness in her aim but, as the author when I was in ministerial office of the responsible actors scheme, which was stoutly resisted by housing developers, I had to strike a balance between putting the squeeze on them—by making it clear that unless they acted to remediate, they would receive no planning permission whatever—and making sure that they could continue to build the houses we need. Have the noble Baroness and the supporters of this amendment looked at what the impact on the balance sheets of individual housebuilders might be, and what impact that would have on our current rate of buildout? Also, is it not the case that many of those who do not qualify at the moment for support for remediation—the so-called non-qualifying leaseholders—are people with extensive property portfolios? A line has to be drawn somewhere to ensure that those with significant wealth do not benefit, while those who do need support receive it.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Gove, for his intervention. He is right that when the scheme was established, it was on the basis of squeezing the housebuilders as far as they could go. However, if I remember the figure correctly, one of the major housebuilders has made an operating profit in the last year of £870 million. Call me a curmudgeon if you like, but if some of that could be used to fund making the dangerous flats they built safe for people to live in, I think that is not a bad call.

We have had the argument but I am not content with the answers I have got, so I wish to test the opinion of the House. I hope that those on the Conservative Benches will support those who have spoken strong and hard in favour of remediation schemes, and in favour of leaseholders, through the Lobby.

Grenfell Tower: Bureau Veritas

Lord Gove Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Of course, housing is devolved in Scotland, and it is up to Scottish Ministers to do what they need to. I am sure that my colleague from the Treasury sitting on the Bench with me has heard what my noble friend said and will take the necessary action.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her reply and take this opportunity to associate these Benches with the earlier comments and expressions of gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, for his ministerial service— proof, if it were needed, of the invaluable role hereditary members continue to play in this House.

The Grenfell inquiry report made it clear that Arconic, Saint-Gobain and Kingspan all had a direct responsibility for the death of the victims in that horrendous tragedy. Can the Minister assure us that the Government have no commercial relationship with any of those firms, government agencies will not enter into commercial relationships with any of those firms, and Ministers will not appear at events sponsored by those firms complicit in murder?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Before I answer the noble Lord’s question, I thank him for his comments about my noble friend Lord Ponsonby, but I point out to him that my noble friend is in fact a life Peer. We truly value his service.

In response to the question about public contracts, we are, of course, absolutely committed to exploring all available options to take action to hold to account those companies which were criticised by the inquiry. In that spirit, the Cabinet Office said it would launch investigations into seven organisations, using the new debarment powers that came in the Procurement Act 2023. I have to say, however, that the Met Police and the Crown Prosecution Service informed the Cabinet Office that debarment investigations might unintentionally prejudice the criminal investigation, so the Cabinet Office then concluded that it was right to pause the debarment investigations while the criminal investigation was going on. However, I completely understand the noble Lord’s point, and we will do all we can to make sure that those who are responsible are brought to account.