European Union Referendum

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Lawson of Blaby

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord referred at the beginning of his question to the draft report that was circulated to a number of individuals who I understand are named in it in order to allow them time to consider it and make representations. The Electoral Commission will consider representations it has received and will publish a thorough and detailed closing report in order to provide a balanced account. The noble Lord also referred to various other inquiries, including the DCMS Committee inquiry into fake news. I think it makes sense to await the outcome of those inquiries and of the continuing investigations by the EC into the referendum that he referred to. As for joining the dots, that is a good question because a large number of government departments are involved in this key issue. I think that the Cabinet Office has a role to play in bringing all the relevant agencies together.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is always the most fair-minded of Ministers in this House. As far as foreign interference in the referendum campaign is concerned, will he join with me in deploring the interference by the then President of the United States, Mr Obama, on the anti-Brexit side?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Despite the very flattering introduction to my noble friend’s question, he has raised something that is not at all on my radar. I am very reluctant to get involved in diplomatic or Foreign Office relationships. Perhaps I can write to him once I have taken advice from someone who is better informed than I am on this.

Carillion

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Lawson of Blaby

Monday 15th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords, the opposition spokesmen have called for inquiries into the Carillion affair, but the Minister has pointed out that one or two inquiries are likely to take place anyway. However, perhaps I may suggest to him that the time has come for a thorough, independent inquiry into the whole PFI—private finance initiative—process.

This idea, I think, originated in Australia and it came to me when I was Chancellor 30-odd years ago. My Treasury officials were keen on it but I refused to have anything to do with it. Subsequently, my successors—particularly, but not exclusively, Mr Gordon Brown—were enthusiastically in favour of it. Its purpose, in the eyes of the Treasury officials who tried to persuade me to take it up, was that it enabled you, at least in the short term, to dress up considerable amounts of public expenditure and put them off the public sector balance sheet. That is not a good reason for adopting something which, in my judgment, does not give good value for money for the taxpayer, and it introduces a degree of moral hazard, which we see very much in the Carillion affair—and there have been other examples. It is important that we take stock at this juncture and decide whether the whole PFI scheme should be proceeded with further. We have now had enough evidence that it is not good value for money and therefore not sensible from the point of view of the taxpayer.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to my noble friend. I agree with the first half of his question but I would not go quite as far as he did in the follow-up. It is important not to condemn all PFIs. This initiative has enabled the country to invest in infrastructure at a faster rate than if the investment were wholly funded by public borrowing, thereby enabling us to improve productivity. There are many very successful examples of PFI.

My noble friend’s first point was about a review. A review of PFI, which I read last night, was carried out in 2010 by the NAO, which stood back and looked at the lessons learned. It came up with a number of conclusions—for example, that the public sector should make sure that it had adequate negotiators to deal with the very skilled negotiators in the private sector. It is beyond my pay grade, but my noble friend’s suggestion that we should take this opportunity to stand back and look at the PFI model to see whether there are any improvements to be made in the light of the Carillion and other affairs seems wholly worth while. However, I hope that the Government do not go quite as far as he implied; namely, that we should rule out this form of partnership for ever and a day.

Civil Society and the Democratic Process

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Lawson of Blaby

Tuesday 27th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am not quite sure how that derives from the Question on the Order Paper. I refer the noble Lord to the exchanges in the other place yesterday when the First Secretary of State put the arrangement that he just described in a slightly different context.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

I would like to respond to the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, who referred to the Global Warming Policy Foundation, of which I am chairman. I am very happy to disclose the identities of all our donors, who are thoroughly respectable people. It is right, however, that if donors do not wish to declare themselves they should not be forced to do so, particularly since they will be vilified by those, like the noble Lord, who disagree with what we stand for.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The stakes are rising by the minute in this exchange about electoral expenditure. As I said a few moments ago, if transparency of income is one of the recommendations, it will be addressed by the Government. The whole House will have noted the challenge laid down by my noble friend Lord Lawson.

Brexit: Economic Impact

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Lawson of Blaby

Tuesday 18th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I thank the noble Lord for prefacing his remarks with his customary diplomacy. It is important to recall exactly what the Treasury analysis did. It took as a baseline continued membership of the EU, and then tried to predict the impact on GDP of three scenarios: first, the Norway solution or EEA; secondly, the Canada option; and thirdly, the WTO option. The Government have subsequently made it clear that they are going not for any of those three options but for a bespoke option which will not necessarily parallel any of those. For that reason, there is no particular advantage in updating the analysis that the noble Lord referred to. As for what he said about sectors, that is an important issue, and work is going on in government departments on the impact of Brexit on particular sectors of the economy.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords, I commend my noble friend for dismissing this earlier projection or model. Is he aware that it is regarded as completely useless for two reasons? One is that it takes no account of the other economic dimensions besides trade—there are many—and the other is that it is a so-called gravity model, designed for geographers. All reputable economists regard it as completely useless because it contains, among other things, no prices.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his support to the extent that he suggests there would be no great advantage in redoing this exercise. One of the things this exercise did not do was take into account any intervention by the Bank of England or Government after the decision. Since then we have seen monetary initiatives by the Bank of England, and the Chancellor has made it clear that in his Autumn Statement he is minded to take measures to protect the economy. For those reasons, there is no particular advantage in updating the forecast—which was not out of line with other forecasts made at the time.