Church of England: Disestablishment

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 28th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord. Perhaps the Labour Party should disestablish the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister submit to the canard that the Church of England is sometimes seen as the Tory party at prayer?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

Well, a large number of the Tory party were at prayer 10 minutes ago.

Contaminated Blood

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Monday 29th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness. This is a UK inquiry. The problem affected the whole of the UK. There are provisions under the Inquiries Act for consultation to take place with the devolved Parliaments and Assemblies, but it is a UK inquiry. There is a specific issue about the arrangements made for helping those who suffered. It is a devolved responsibility. Those particular responsibilities may differ in Scotland from the rest of the UK.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, while I welcome the Government’s initiative in this matter, may I ask about an inquiry that was conducted about 10 years ago by the late Lord Archer, a former law officer? It was privately commissioned, but published thereafter. I think that the recommendations were accepted by the Government of that day. Can the Minister tell us something more about that, which was apparently a searching and revealing study into this matter?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord asks a question that is right at the extremity of my familiarity with the subject, but I looked it up and the noble Lord is quite right. There was an independent inquiry in the early 2000s by the former Solicitor-General for England and Wales, Lord Archer. I understand that it held no legal or official status at all. It was unable to subpoena witnesses or demand the disclosure of documents, but it looked at some of the issues and discovered that some important documents had been destroyed. There were issues of missing evidence. After he reported, Lord Jenkin, who was also a former Secretary of State, voiced his difficulties about obtaining documents for the inquiry. That inquiry is available and will be available to the statutory inquiry. I hope that it will be able to build on some of the work that Lord Archer undertook.

Carillion

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Monday 15th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

That is quite a complicated question. One can make a good argument for having subcontractors—namely, people who specialise in a particular discipline and compete against each other for contracts, rather than one company trying to cover the whole spectrum of services. Many very successful industries are built on a structure of contracts and subcontracts. Noble Lords need look only to the airline industry to see a whole range of contracts: companies lease the aeroplanes and subcontract baggage handling and catering and so on, and, on the whole, it is a satisfactorily run industry. I would not want to get drawn into conclusions about what structure is the right one for a particular industry. On the question of accounting, I should have said that the FCA and the FRC are both conducting their respective inquiries—one, I think, into audit, and the other into statements that were made or not made about the company’s prospects. These particular aspects are being looked at by the relevant authorities.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

On the issue of pensions, is it not the case that the statutory body that will be reimbursing loss will do so not to the tune of 90% but 85%? If I am wrong in that, I am very happy to be corrected. However, in any event, and whatever the figure, do the Government accept a moral responsibility in this matter to ameliorate so far as they possibly can the loss that many people will feel in respect of quite modest pensions?

Brexit: Devolved Administrations

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Thursday 23rd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I recall a powerful case made by the noble Lord and others when we debated a report last year on the northern regions, but the answer is the one I gave to my noble friend Lady Eaton: there are regular meetings between Secretaries of State, the city region mayors and leaders of local authorities to understand the impact and challenges of EU legislation. I am sure that ministerial colleagues in DCLG, among others, are anxious to see that the interests of the regions are taken on board as we leave the European Union.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

The Minister has made a significant and important statement to the effect that certain of the powers now held in Europe will be devolved and delegated to the devolved Administrations. Can he give assurance that there will be a constitutional precept to the effect that there should be a transfer of all powers unless there is a clear case to the contrary and that the onus should be with those who are against devolution, rather than otherwise?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

It is always slightly worrying when the Minister is told that he has said something important at the Dispatch Box when he believes that he has stuck to the departmental brief. I say to the noble Lord, who has asked me a number of questions on this, that I have set out clearly the reasons why we think there is a strong case to retain some powers at Westminster. For example, it would be ridiculous if wheat grown in one region was unable to be used to bake bread in another region because of different rules on pesticides, so we need to keep some powers in Westminster. Subject to those requirements, which were set out in the agreed communiqué, it is indeed the case that we would like to devolve as much as we can to the devolved Assemblies.

Boundary Reviews 2018

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Lord will know that the coalition Government sought to reduce the number of noble Lords by a very substantial number, but because of the failure of his party in the Commons to support it, that Bill did not go through. He will also know that the Lord Speaker has set up a committee under the chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Burns, which I understand may report in July. There is a consensus across the House that the numbers need to come down. We look forward to the noble Lord’s proposals, to see how that might be delivered.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

Does the Minister agree that the punishment handed to Wales is utterly out of proportion; that, whereas the loss of seats for the United Kingdom as a whole is one out of every 13, in the case of Wales 40 seats are reduced to 29; and that this is regarded as being entirely out of kilter with the whole principle that has been adumbrated?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

It is out of kilter only because Wales is overrepresented compared with other countries in the UK Parliament. At the moment, the quota for Wales, the average number of voters in a Wales seat, is 56,000, against 71,000 in England. At the moment, we have a constituency in Wales, Arfon, with 39,000 voters, while North West Cambridgeshire has 92,000. The proposals that the Boundary Commission is introducing will ensure that each vote has equal weight.

Class 4 National Insurance Contributions

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to my noble friend for drawing attention to the very good debate that we had yesterday on the Budget Statement. I will ensure that the Chancellor is aware of the views that were expressed by him and others, not just on the national insurance issue but also on probate and the changes to the dividend tax allowance. Whether it was my noble friend’s speech last night that caused the Chancellor to change his mind this morning, I am not quite so sure, but I am grateful for his support this evening.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the Statement is a brilliant piece of euphemistic improvisation? It may well be that the man in the street will remind himself of a line of Victorian poetry, “Someone had blundered”. However, does he accept that it is entirely appropriate for the Government to proceed with extreme caution on this fateful day, the Ides of March?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. He said “improvisation”, but I think he does an injustice to the minds of the civil servants, politicians and spads who had to put together the Statement that the Chancellor made a few moments ago.

Tax Credits: Concentrix

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Elystan-Morgan

Wednesday 14th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The noble Baroness speaks on the subject with great experience, having had ministerial responsibility for this. I will take back the suggestions that she has made about the action that needs to be taken before we move to the enforcement regime. As I said, the system of universal credits has a different approach with every person having a personal adviser right at the beginning, which of course is not the case with tax credits. I think that I am right in saying that Atos had its contract before the 2010 Government came to power but I take on board what she said about the need to be sensitive. I understand that we are moving over to a real-time information basis which should help those on tax credits. HMRC will have up-to-date information from the employer in real time rather than waiting for the claimant to notify it five or six months later that their circumstances have improved, and then, perhaps even later than that, getting a letter saying that they now owe huge sums of money. It is very important that any new regime should avoid that problem.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the tone with which he has approached this somewhat embarrassing Question. Is it not the case that outsourcing was entirely inappropriate in this context? The constitutional position surely is that the Inland Revenue acts as an organ of state for the collection of taxes and exercises its functions in a quasi-judicial way. This is utterly contrary to that basic principle. Not only is it a breach of principle but, in so far as performance is concerned, it has been blatantly incompetent. Apparently 6,000 people found that their tax credits had been cancelled unlawfully and that 64% of the claims made against Concentrix have succeeded.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for what he has just said. As for mandatory reconsiderations which are the appeals against the decision, the noble Lord is right that 67.97% end up in the customer’s favour and 32.03% in favour of HMRC. At the moment, the number of mandatory reconsiderations awaiting decision is 2,197. That is when benefit has been stopped and the claimant has asked for that decision to be reviewed. I understand the point the noble Lord makes about outsourcing. I am not sure that I would go quite as far as saying that it was totally inappropriate ab initio to outsource this to the private sector. I hope that what I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that this contract is not being renewed gives him some assurance.