Civil Preparedness for War
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(2 days ago)
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The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Harris—it is very good to see her in person again—for bringing forward this really important debate.
On the point from the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, about whether we can have a longer debate on these matters—the noble Lord, Lord Harris, mentioned this to me beforehand—let us see. That would be really helpful for all of us in taking this forward. Notwithstanding the King’s Speech, which will I am sure include a day on defence and foreign affairs—if that is agreed—there may be some other point to have that debate. I am sure that all the people who have spoken in this debate would value it, so that people can make longer contributions—so that is a very good suggestion.
Let me set out the context for this, because it is really important. A number of noble Lords made the point about the need to engage the public. For a number of years since what has been designated as the end of the Cold War, the country has focused on the terrorist threat—that is, on Afghanistan, Iraq and those sorts of threats to our country. The threat of the sort of conflict that we face now is, in many respects, something that people think is of a bygone age and not relevant to contemporary society. What we have seen recently—although we can argue what “recently” is—has been a rude awakening for all of us. This is not to ignore any terrorist threat, but there is a need to recalibrate to the state-on-state threats and the geopolitical change that there has been.
Alongside that, as the noble Baroness pointed out, it is really important to understand that warfare has changed as well. The noble Lord, Lord Harris, and others made the point that it not just a tank versus a tank or a fighter aircraft versus a fighter aircraft: it is the threat to underwater cables and threats of cyber attacks, fake news and all of those other types of grey-zone warfare that need us to respond. That is why it is so important to have this conversation with our population. In other words, the traditional perception of war is not as relevant to today’s threats as it would have been in the past; it is not irrelevant, but the threats have changed, so we need to build a multiplicity of responses.
As noble Lords will know, the Cabinet Office has the overall responsibility for co-ordination across government, with the home defence programme, but defence obviously has a very important role to play within that. The MoD, for example, has recognised that we need to respond to the challenge in the report and to move to war-readiness in order to respond to the changed circumstances in which we operate. We are, therefore, trying to do that.
A number of noble Lords mentioned the urgency here. There is this idea that nothing has happened, or that it has not happened quickly and needs to happen more quickly. I totally and utterly accept that, particularly in terms of the point that the noble Baroness and others made about the need for us to involve citizens. There was a recent meeting with 38 local resilience forums, which were brought together to discuss what they might do to respond to the changing circumstances. We need more of those sorts of thing. There have also been two big conferences of private industry chief executives to see how private industry might respond to all this. Again, more of that needs to happen.
We are drafting a defence readiness Bill to ensure that we have the legislative framework within which we can respond to some of the challenges that we may meet in future. I understand the impatience and the need for us to act as quickly as possible—we will do so. I very much thank the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, for bringing this debate forward.
The noble Lord, Lord Harris, talked about the need to inform the public. I could not agree with him more. It is not only about informing the public through traditional media; we have to get into social media and multimedia, particularly if we want to speak to our young people. I am sure that many noble Lords have children, or, like me, grandchildren. They do not read newspapers. They get their information from social media, yet some of us still put out press releases. There is nothing wrong with that, but we have to get smarter if we want to get this information across to them.
I could not agree more with the point about how we use civil volunteers. Let us take this on. All of us have to be a bit more confident in talking about civil volunteers and all the things that we might use to support resilience. We have to ignore the barracking that we will get to do with “Dad’s Army” and all that. We have to get over that because the population understands that what we are talking about is, where possible, using people’s experience and ability to help in the face of a national emergency.
That is why, in the Armed Forces Bill, should it go through Parliament, we suggested increasing the maximum age of reserves to 65. Nobody is expecting a fully-fledged combat soldier of 65—though there may be one or two. The point is that a 65 year-old plumber, electrician, doctor, nurse, surveyor, architect, civil engineer, or any other member of all of those professional occupations and trades, could be of immense use. Yet the headlines in many of the papers were that the Government were seeking to recreate “Dad’s Army”. That is the sort of nonsense we must have the confidence to take on because, when you speak to people, they say that, of course, this is something—
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Young of Cookham) (Con)
My Lords, there is a Division in the Chamber. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes.
Ministry of Defence: Budget Shortfall
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(3 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Young of Cookham
To ask His Majesty’s Government whether there is a shortfall of £28 billion in the budget of the Ministry of Defence over the next four years.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Coaker) (Lab)
My Lords, the defence investment plan will set out how we will deliver the vision set out in the Strategic Defence Review. It will be a coherent, fully costed and affordable plan against the defence budget. Over the course of this Parliament, the Government have committed to the greatest sustained investment since the Cold War, with over £270 billion going into defence. We have set a further ambition to spend 3% in the next Parliament and joined NATO allies in a commitment to spend 5% on national security from 2035.
Lord Young of Cookham (Con)
I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. The Chief of the Defence Staff has rightly warned the country about the growing threat from Russia and other countries and the need for adequate preparation. In response to questions about the £28 billion shortfall on Monday before the Defence Select Committee in another place, the Chief of the Defence Staff, while not directly answering the question, said:
“Right now, we are in a position where we are forecasting to spend more than the budget we have”.
Does it not follow that without extra cash from the Treasury, over and above the sums the Minister has just referred to, the Government may have to postpone or abandon major programmes?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
The defence investment plan will deal with choices according to the budget that it has set for it. Even if you increase the budget, you still have to make choices about what you spend that money on. The Chief of the Defence Staff and the other chiefs are involved in this, discussing what capabilities we need, with the budget that we have, to ensure that we have the war-fighting readiness we need. Those choices are taking place.
Considerable sums of money are being spent at present—billions of pounds. I keep repeating this: under current plans, the total budget in 2024-25 was £60.2 billion; in 2008-29, on current plans, it will be £73.5 billion. Billions of pounds of additional money is being spent. We are seeking to ensure that we spend it properly and appropriately to fight the wars of the future.
General Aviation (Persons on Board, Flight Information and Civil Penalties) Regulations 2024
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(2 years, 2 months ago)
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Lord Young of Cookham (Con)
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Goschen about the importance of this SI. Unlike him, I am not a pilot but, like him, I am a former Transport Minister. I will raise two issues, both touched on tangentially by the noble Lord, Lord German.
The first is the general issue of penalties and enforcement. After yesterday’s long debate, there is increased emphasis on security of the borders and, with all parties agreed that we need to do something about the boats, I think there will be an incentive to look to general aviation to bring more illegal immigrants into the country. Some 400 airfields have no police, customs and excise or immigration presence, so there is a general issue about enforcement and penalties.
The civil penalty for non-compliance under paragraph 2.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum is £10,000. I assume that there are also other penalties available for someone who illegally brings in somebody, so on what basis has that figure been arrived at? Has the existing figure simply been carried forward, or does it line up with some other measurement?
Secondly, on Northern Ireland, Regulation 2 says:
“This regulation applies to an aircraft which … is expected to arrive in the United Kingdom, or … is expected to leave the United Kingdom”.
I assume that internal flights are excluded, as paragraph 7.4 of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to “124,000 international GA flights”, so I assume that there is some other legislation that qualifies Regulation 2 and that the regulation applies only to an aircraft that is arriving in the UK from outside the UK.
Like the noble Lord, Lord German, I downloaded the latest guidance, General Aviation Guidance—January 2024, and came across this under paragraph 6 on customs requirements when travelling to the UK:
“Personal Allowances … If you’re travelling from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, you do not need to declare your goods if both of the following apply … you’re a UK resident … you have already paid both VAT and excise duty … on the goods in Great Britain”.
However, it goes on:
“You may need to declare your goods if any of the following apply … you’re not a UK resident … you have alcohol or tobacco over your allowances … you have goods worth more than £390”.
As I understand it, someone who arrives in this country from America, for example, and then goes to Northern Ireland has to declare his goods because he is not a UK resident. However, the next paragraph says:
“If you’re travelling from Northern Ireland to Great Britain … you do not have to declare any goods”.
There seems to be a bit of a mismatch in the requirements of what you have to do if travelling from here to Northern Ireland or coming back the other way.
I do not expect my noble friend to have the answer at his fingertips, but it is worth posing the question. If I am a pilot taking an American citizen on general aviation to Northern Ireland, what is my obligation to cross-question him about what he has in his luggage, and what penalties will I be exposed to if, by any chance, I get it wrong?
Lord Coaker (Lab)
My Lords, these are generally sensible regulations. There have been some very interesting points. The contribution from the noble Viscount, Lord Goschen, about being sensible—he flies in and out of these sorts of airfields—is useful to our consideration. There were also some interesting points from the noble Lords, Lord Young and Lord German, particularly on Northern Ireland, which is always a complicating factor with respect to regulations, not least because people could land in Dublin and because of the interaction with the common travel area, et cetera. There are some interesting questions for the Minister.
It is worth placing on record for people who read our deliberations quite how serious an issue this is and how welcome it is that the Government are seeking to tighten it up. The noble Lord, Lord Young, alluded to that. Some 400 airfields currently operate 124,000 general aviation flights. That is a huge number of flights. I appreciate that many will be individuals, but it is still a significant number. Although we hear that the majority conform with the Government’s current regulations, 10% do not. It is welcome that the Government say quite categorically that none of these various airfields can be policed routinely—I think that is the word the Government used—by Border Force officials or police officers. Again, you do not have to be an intelligence expert to realise that there is potentially a real problem here, so the Government’s attempt to tighten this up through the requirement for people to submit information online is a welcome step forward.
The Minister very helpfully answered a couple of questions for me prior to this debate. I know it is not the subject of the SI, but I wonder whether the Government are considering this issue with respect to seaports. I take the point about Dover or Holyhead, but international shipping must come in and out of numerous other ports. If we are talking about the necessity of borders, I wonder whether the Government are giving any consideration to whether any changes are needed with respect to that. I appreciate that is outside the scope of these regulations, but I wanted to ask the Minister that. Perhaps he could answer by letter.
There is clearly a major issue here that the Government need to deal with. The point made by the noble Lord, Lord Young, is especially pertinent: how will all this new information be monitored and enforced? How can we be sure that the Government will be able to do this effectively? If this information is coming into Border Force, it is really important that it can be collected and utilised. If I have read the regulations right, the information has to be provided not 48 hours before the flight but up to two hours before. How were those figures arrived at? I ask because if, two hours before, something arrives into Border Force and it is a problem, is that sufficient time to respond? I do not know. It clearly has not been plucked out of thin air, so I wondered whether the Minister could say something about how the figures of 48 and two were arrived at.
On the territorial extent, if this is obvious then I apologise, but I think it is worth putting on record that the regulations talk about the United Kingdom. Are the Channel Islands are added on, or not? Are Jersey and Guernsey, and the Isle of Man, subject to these regulations, or not?
Lastly, without repeating the questions from the noble Lords, Lord German and Lord Young, and the noble Viscount, Lord Goschen, military flights are clearly excluded under Regulation 3. Military personnel are exempted; I understand that and obviously agree with it. Can the Minister say something about what that means for intelligence services and for diplomats flying in and out? If there is an exemption for military personnel, I wonder whether the Minister can say anything —he may be constrained on this—around intelligence and/or diplomatic flights coming in and out.
As I say, the integrity and policing of our borders is obviously a really important matter. This instrument will help in a proportionate way and, subject to the answers to a couple of those questions, which will help inform discussions when it goes to the other place, these regulations are generally to be welcomed.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(14 years, 9 months ago)
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Sir George Young
The moment the statement was made last Thursday, and it was clear that legislation was needed, we decided to change the business of the House, and a statement was made at the earliest opportunity.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
What a fiasco! Why does the House have to wait until Thursday before it debates the emergency legislation when the Home Office has known about this for six weeks? Will the Home Secretary be able to tell us what the current situation is with respect to those on police bail? How many people are being let out who should not be? How many people do not know what is happening? Should there not be an emergency statement now, rather than waiting until next Thursday?
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(14 years, 10 months ago)
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Sir George Young
I have some good news for my hon. Friend. The Government will shortly be introducing a legal aid and sentencing Bill, which will give him an opportunity to share his views with the House at greater length.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House find time for an urgent statement enabling the Business Secretary to explain to the House why the Government are refusing to sign a United Nations convention that protects the rights of domestic workers? On the day of the announcement to that effect, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions was supporting an inquiry into modern-day slavery. It is about time that the Government got their act together.
Sir George Young
Questions to my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary will take place on 14 July, but in the meantime I will draw my right hon. Friend’s attention to the hon. Gentleman’s question and ask him to reply to it.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(15 years, 4 months ago)
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Sir George Young
The hon. Gentleman raises an issue that I have already dealt with. The coalition agreement is absolutely clear that on this particular issue Liberal Democrats are entitled to abstain.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House arrange for an urgent debate on the provision of speech and language therapy in schools? Dylan Scothern is a six-year-old autistic boy, the son of Rachel Scothern, a constituent of mine. Because he is six years of age, he has had speech and language therapy taken away from him on the basis that he is too old. That is clearly ridiculous. Whatever the situation, an autistic boy needs speech and language therapy. The decision to provide it only for children up to the age of five is nonsense, and Dylan deserves better than that.
Sir George Young
Of course he does. I am not aware that there has been any change of policy by the coalition Government on this issue. I think that we are carrying forward the policy that we inherited, with which the hon. Gentleman may be familiar.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(15 years, 7 months ago)
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Sir George Young
My hon. Friend asks a good question. Under the previous Government, a whole range of public appointments were made subject to the appropriate Select Committee validating or commenting on them—an extra tranche of names was added towards the end of the previous Parliament. We will certainly keep that under review. We are anxious that Select Committees have a role to play in key public appointments.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate or statement on the answering of written parliamentary questions? In July, I tabled a number of named day questions to the Department for Education, but they were not answered before the recess. I returned to Parliament after the recess expecting all of them to be answered on 6 September, but not all were. I would appreciate his help in getting them answered. We know the difficulties that that Department has at the moment, but answering written questions, which gives MPs the information we need to hold the Government to account, is essential.
Sir George Young
I apologise if there has been any discourtesy to the hon. Gentleman because his questions have not been answered promptly, and I will pursue the issue later today with my colleagues.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(15 years, 9 months ago)
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Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House arrange a debate on the answering of written questions with respect to a named day? Last Monday, I was expecting an answer from the Treasury to a named day written question about the distributional impact of a 1% rise in VAT. Given that the right hon. Gentleman has just quoted the Red Book, is he not astonished that I am yet to receive an answer to that question?
Sir George Young
I am genuinely sorry if there has been any discourtesy to the hon. Gentleman, and I will draw to the attention of my ministerial colleagues at the Treasury the need to get him an urgent reply.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Coaker(15 years, 10 months ago)
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Sir George Young
My hon. Friend makes a good point, and if he is quick he can table—I think—an oral question for 2 June, when the Health Secretary will be at the Dispatch Box and in a position to deal with the inequities to which my hon. Friend refers.
Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)
Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate on advice given by civil servants to Ministers, with particular reference to the advice used by the Chief Secretary yesterday to say that the future jobs fund, which many of us regard as a major success of the previous Government, is not working? We would all like to see that advice. Will the Leader of the House assure us that we can have a debate on that matter?
Sir George Young
There will be a debate on that matter, because the Department for Work and Pensions has a day in the debate on the Queen’s Speech. The fund is not being abolished; it is being phased out and fed into—[Laughter.] It is not being abolished with immediate effect; it is being run down, and the new work programme will take over. As I said, however, there will be an opportunity during the Queen’s Speech debate for the hon. Gentleman to press the issue about the advice given to Ministers.