Political Parties (Funding and Expenditure) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Bassam of Brighton

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 10th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

What about reducing the number of Peers?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

We tried to reduce the number of Peers in the previous Parliament, as I know to my cost, but it did not have the consensus that we needed.

Often, the starting point of our discussions is that the spending of political parties should be reduced and that, in the absence of stricter rules, an arms race is taking place between the parties. Research published by the CSPL in August 2016 showed that this is not the case. There has been no arms race in party funding in recent years. My party spent less in the 2015 general election than in 2010—and that was a lower figure than in 2005. The less we spend, the better we seem to do. Taking into account inflation, the CSPL research showed a steep fall in central party spending since 1997. Neither of the two main political parties in the 2015 general election came close to its spending limit.

Like other recent attempts at reform, the Bill suggests complex and, at times, controversial structural changes to the party funding system. Talks that have focused on these ideas have so far always failed. Perhaps real progress could be made if the focus was instead on smaller reforms that might gain cross-party support.

Here, I return to the parallel drawn by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, with Lords reform. As I know to my cost, heroic attempts to reform your Lordships’ House failed because there was basically no consensus between the two Houses and within the two main parties. Subsequently, there has been useful incremental reform, with two Private Members’ Bills reaching the statute book and the possibility of further incremental reform coming from the Lord Speaker’s Committee.

Indeed, I wonder whether the noble Lord, Lord Burns, who has tackled difficult subjects such as hunting with dogs, the Trade Union Act and Lords reform, might thereafter apply his resourcefulness and ingenuity to this subject. As with incremental reform of our House, I think we should adopt the same approach to party funding: moving ahead with smaller reforms that may command broad support, rather than trying and failing to achieve an all-or-nothing solution, as this Bill does.

I was interested in what the noble Lord, Lord Bew, said, in the debate on 9 March. Commenting on my party’s evidence to the noble Lord, Lord Burns, which suggested smaller reforms rather than an all-or-nothing, big-bang solution, he said:

“That is an interesting observation. We could address certain aspects of what is a very difficult problem in its totality, in the event that we do not within this Parliament achieve the big-bang solution. These smaller reforms could include finding practical ways to encourage more and smaller donations from wider audiences”.—[Official Report, 9/3/16; col. 1377.]


He repeated that suggestion this afternoon.

These smaller reforms could include finding practical ways to encourage more and smaller donations from wider audiences. As the Minister for the Constitution said when he appeared before the Constitution Committee earlier this week, the Government are open to constructive debate and dialogue on small-scale measures that could command broad support, if there was a positive reaction to such a potential step from the main political parties. I think that today’s debate has shown that there is such an appetite, and I shall return to that in a moment, when I have addressed some of the issues raised in the debate.

The noble Lords, Lord Bew and Lord Rennard, raised the issue about the lack of transparency in donations in Northern Ireland. On 5 January, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland announced that he would write to Northern Ireland political parties seeking their views on ending the current arrangements on donations and loans to political parties. He asked whether now was the right time to move to full transparency, and he remains keen to make progress on the issue of donations to political parties now that the election has concluded.

The noble Lord also asked about the review of third-party campaigning by my noble friend Lord Hodgson. The Government welcomed that review of campaigning in the 2015 general election, and welcomed the noble Lord’s conclusion:

“Restrictions on third party expenditure at elections are necessary”.


He recommended a balanced package of measures; some would tighten the rules and some would relax them. We are considering his recommendations carefully, along with the Electoral Commission’s response to them.

My noble friend Lord True raised two important issues. Firstly, on impermissible donations, he rightly said that all three parties had been affected but focused his comments on the Michael Brown case and asked whether the Electoral Commission should be able to secure the return of donations which are later found to be the proceeds of crime. The Electoral Commission has recommended that the rules on company donations should be reviewed following its investigation of donations made by 5th Avenue Partners Limited to the Liberal Democrats in 2005. We are considering that issue alongside a number of other issues related to donation matters.

My noble friend also raised the matter of reports about a £250,000 donation being offered to the Green Party before the Richmond by-election. This was denied by the Green Party, and the Electoral Commission records for the relevant period do not show any such donation being made. Laws around such donations relate largely to ensuring that they come from a permissible source and that they are properly declared to the Electoral Commission to comply with transparency requirements. If the donation in this case had complied with those requirements, it is unlikely to have broken any laws. But my noble friend raised an interesting question as to whether the law applied to parties as well as to individuals. That is an issue that we need to reflect on further.

The noble Lord, Lord Wrigglesworth, made a valid point about social media and the changing landscape of political campaigning. I agree that it would be better if all parties were less reliant on large donations and we had a broader base of membership donations on which to rely.

The Bill proposes a number of reforms to political party funding, including caps on donations and new schemes for public funding. These are complex structural reforms which could be taken forward only on the basis of a cross-party consensus. No such consensus exists at this time, so the Government believe that it is premature to consider a Bill at this time.

However, anticipating that there would be an appetite in today’s debate to make progress and try to break the logjam that we now have, I spoke to the Minister for the Constitution earlier this morning. He would be happy to have a meeting with the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and other noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, to see whether we can find a way forward along the lines that I have suggested of incremental reforms that achieve cross-party support.

That may not be the giant step forward that the noble Lord hoped for in his opening remarks, but I hope that he accepts it as a constructive response to the debate and a helpful way forward, even though we cannot take his Bill very much further forward today.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Bassam of Brighton

Monday 14th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

As we have heard in earlier debates, every house that is being sold by a local housing association is being replaced and every house that is being sold by a local authority is going to be replaced so I simply reject the thesis the noble Baroness has put forward.

[Lord Bassam of Brighton]

My Lords, I have an amendment in this group. It follows immediately after the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake. I am grateful for the intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Young, because it has widened and opened up a fundamental debate. The noble Lord described social housing now as “residualised housing” because that is what it is. We are getting to the last knockings of social housing. I do not think that that is right or appropriate. The problem that we have is spiralling rents in the public sector, spiralling rents in the private sector and a diminution of supply. The noble Lord says that there will be like-for-like replacement. So far during the Conservatives’ time in government since 2010, we have not had anywhere near like-for-like replacement. I think that the figure is one in 10. That is a great shame, although the aspiration is absolutely right.

When I chaired a housing committee, with the capital receipts that we accrued we had the opportunity to get some of the way towards like-for-like replacement. Now, we are nowhere near it and that is part of the problem. We need to expand public sector housing provision on a massive scale. That will help to drive down rents in both the public and the private sectors, and we can get back to the point where social housing is no longer viewed as residual housing for the poorest in our communities and for those who are struggling to get on to the housing ladder.