High-rise Buildings: Safety Remediation

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is quite right to raise the issue of insurance premiums. Work has been going on to reduce those premiums for leaseholders. We have seen improvements for leaseholders who previously found themselves unable to sell or remortgage their homes, but we remain vigilant and will continue to hold the 10 major lenders to account, following their commitment to lend on properties even if the remediation is not yet complete.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I draw the attention of the House to a family interest in a high-rise flat. Does the Minister accept that it is a matter not just of getting an agreement to starting dates on these schemes of remediation but of completion dates? Many schemes seem to be dragging on and on, and there will not be satisfaction in terms of safety reassurance or saleability until there is a much more stringent approach to the completion date of this necessary work.

Car Parking Companies

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Tuesday 4th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

That was some of the worst practice that we have seen, and there has been a lot of media interest in this. I see, as probably we all do, people wrestling to download apps when there is no wifi, so that they can pay their parking charges. Both private parking trade associations have recognised this as an issue. They have worked collaboratively to take immediate steps to ensure that motorists no longer receive parking charges in that kind of scenario. This came into effect at the start of February. We welcome those steps taken by the industry, but there is still more to do.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, in her consultation, will the Minister ensure that she links up with the devolved Government in Cardiff? Many of these companies operate in England and in Wales. In Wales, some of the regulations may vary and they take no notice of them. Can she include that in any consultation?

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I hope that anybody in Wales who is interested in this will contribute to the consultation. We want much better practice in these arrangements, across the United Kingdom. Any contributions to the consultation will be welcome.

Voter Registration and Participation

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Thursday 14th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an interesting point and I have had the great pleasure of working with him on various SIs and, in particular, on the Elections Act 2022. The Government will explore all options to ensure that we increase voter participation. We believe that, by building a strong foundation of democratic participation among young people, we will establish voting habits that continue as they grow older. It is about delivering long-lasting, positive consequences for our democracy and building an informed and engaged electorate for the future. In the meantime, we are working on these issues and will bring proposals to the House.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, on voter participation, does the Minister recognise that a gross disservice to democracy has been perpetrated by all political parties—I am afraid I include my own—that base their election canvassing on so-called voter modelling algorithms and social profiling? They aim at getting only identified party supporters to turn out and leaving other voters undisturbed. Is it any surprise that there is a cynicism towards politics? Will the Government give serious consideration to adopting the STV system, in which every vote counts, to encourage inclusivity in our democratic processes?

[Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)]

My Lords, there was a lot stacked in the noble Lord’s question, but he makes an interesting point. I single out that turnout at the 2024 general election was 59.7%, which was the lowest since 2001. It was 7.6 percentage points lower than in 2019, so there is an issue with increasing voter participation but also an apathy with politics. The Prime Minister was very determined, as he started his premiership, to make sure that we reach out across all parts of our electoral system to ensure that people feel confident to get involved and participate in the system.

Affordable Housing: Supply

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I shall say a few words in the gap. I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton; he has brought some passion to this debate, and rightly so. I identify with that passion, having just read in the book This Boy by Alan Johnson, a former Labour Minister in the previous Labour Government, about the way he and his sister fought to secure a place to live after they lost their mother in the 1950s in London. Going back to that would be a disgrace, and we have to ensure that that never happens.

I warmly congratulate my noble friend—it is nice to be able to say “my noble friend” in the narrow rather than broad sense in this Chamber—on a memorable maiden speech; llongyfarchiadau. I hope she will inspire many more of her generation, across party-political boundaries, to follow her lead and find a way to get their voice heard in this Chamber. We need a spectrum that includes all the ages that can participate and educate us.

I thank the noble Viscount, Lord Chandos, for facilitating this short debate and particularly for his reference to my constituency predecessor David Lloyd George. The fight for social justice ran through the early decades of the century, as in the 1950s and 1960s and indeed in the last century, and we obviously have to grasp it again.

I first entered Parliament 50 years ago, as my noble friend graphically described, and housing remains a pressing issue, particularly for young people, so it is good to have a persuasive voice for them in this Chamber, one who can speak effectively for the needs of Wales and of course for Plaid Cymru. I am glad to welcome my noble friend Lady Smith of Llanfaes to her place in this Chamber. I congratulate her again on her maiden speech and hope that we hear much more from her on these social issues, as well as the battle facing us in Wales.

Intergovernmental Relations Within the United Kingdom

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for facilitating this debate and congratulate him on his impeccable timing. As we have heard, fortuitously, today the report by the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales, co-chaired by Dr Rowan Williams and Professor Laura McAllister, was published. The headlines in today’s papers in Wales are:

“Independent Wales viable, says report”.


This has become a serious option because of the manifest failings of the current devolution settlement, and the abysmal intergovernmental relationships between Westminster and Cardiff Bay. I pay tribute to all those who have worked diligently over two years to produce the report.

Having served as a Welsh constituency MP for 27 years, prior to devolution, for four years in the first National Assembly and for 12 years in this Chamber, I hope that my perspective will help this debate. As MP, I felt the frustrations of representing a Welsh constituency for which many public policies were conceived and delivered by non-elected quangos, existing to serve the needs of the UK Government, not the priorities of the people of Wales.

In the first National Assembly I saw at first hand the inadequacy of the Barnett formula, which has been recognised by a committee of this House. I saw a Labour Government at Westminster refuse to put that right and even refuse to give the Assembly the cash it received from the European Union for regional development. Only the intervention of Michel Barnier, the EU regional commissioner, persuaded Gordon Brown to pass over to the Assembly the money to which it was entitled.

One of my first battles in this Chamber was to protest at the way in which the coalition Government clawed back £400 million which the Welsh Government, to their great credit, had saved through year-end prudence: a fund intended for capital spending on schools and hospitals. The devolution settlement for Wales has not been working, it still is not, and it has to be put right.

As people increasingly see the shortcomings of the devolution settlement, more and more realise that Wales must take greater responsibility for governing itself. In 1979 there was huge uncertainty about devolution and the proposed Assembly was rejected in a referendum. By 1997, after 18 years of Tory rule, Wales voted yes by a whisker for a relatively powerless Assembly. By the 2011 referendum, there was a two-to-one majority for giving the Assembly legislative competence. Today, up to 40% of voters are sympathetic to independence: “indy-curious” is the term which has been adopted. It is not a majority, but it is a significant number.

Much of that political shift has arisen because of the way in which people in Wales perceive the UK Government as being out of sympathy with my nation’s needs. As we have heard, at the time of Brexit promises were made that the EU’s economic support would be fully replaced by Westminster—that has just not happened. There were also threadbare promises of intergovernmental co-operation.

At times, there has been little less than a disparaging attitude towards the Government elected by the people of Wales, particularly towards First Minister Mark Drakeford. That was most clearly seen at the time of the Covid lockdown. It was personalised in the behaviour of the First Minister and the Prime Minister. At the height of Covid vulnerability, Mark Drakeford camped out in his garden to minimise the danger that he would transmit Covid; at that very time, Boris Johnson was partying in Downing Street. People here fail to understand the respect this brought to our First Minister in comparison with Britain’s Prime Minister.

The stark difference we see between attitudes and values in Wales and Westminster is the most fundamental driver of the wish to go our own way. The fundamental question for this House is whether we can create a new partnership between the nations of these islands, based on maximum self-determination and mutual respect.

The commission’s report, published today, considered four main issues. The first was the challenge to democracy that we experience in Wales, as do other countries. The commission suggested that Wales has the potential to create a robustly more democratic culture. Secondly—this is particularly relevant to this debate—the commission commented that:

“The relationship between the UK Government and the devolved governments has fallen far short of the cooperation that citizens expect”.


It goes on to consider the state of intergovernmental relations and the boundaries of the Welsh devolution settlement. Thirdly, the commission identified areas in which new devolved powers are essential to protect the current settlement. All parties in this House that want to make devolution work should consider that constructively.

The commission believes that the present devolution settlement has an inherent incompatibility and vulnerability. As has been mentioned, it suggests three alternative ways forward: first, entrenching devolved powers in law and devolving the justice system, welfare, employment, broadcasting and railways; secondly, a federal system for the UK, including a written constitution; and, thirdly, the option of independence, which the commission concluded was a viable option.

The report makes 10 detailed recommendations. Of those directly relevant to this House, I will draw attention to four. Recommendation 4 states that

“Parliament should legislate for intergovernmental mechanisms so as to secure a duty of co-operation and parity of esteem between the governments of the UK”.

Recommendation 5 states that the UK Government should legislate

“to specify that the consent of the devolved institutions is required for any change to the devolved powers”.

This was the subject of my Private Member’s Bill that was passed by this House last year.

Recommendation 6 states:

“The UK Government should remove constraints on Welsh Government budget management”—


that resonates with the clawback of devolved funds that I mentioned. Finally, Recommendation 9 says:

“The UK Government should agree to the legislative and executive devolution of responsibility for justice and policing to the Senedd and Welsh Government”.


That was proposed by the Silk commission, which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, has addressed.

I hope that the UK Government will consider these issues positively and that the Labour Party will realise that tinkering at the margins is just not good enough. We need vision, empathy and a spirit of co-operation that is bold and confident enough to contemplate a new partnership between our four nations. I hope that people of goodwill, in all groupings in this Chamber, will open their minds to such possibilities.

Levelling Up: Project Delivery

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Thursday 23rd November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The Government are really focused on ensuring that the levelling-up funds deliver value for money and provide transformative outcomes for the local areas that they deliver for. The Government set out a really clear approach to the evaluation of these projects to make sure that they do just that.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interest chairing the slate quarrying levelling-up fund on Gwynedd Council, which is also facing the challenge of meeting the deadline of April 2025. If indeed the pressures arise from a systematic shortage—a capacity shortage—within the system, will the Government lean towards giving the flexibility of an extra year to ensure that worthwhile projects are not lost?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, as I have highlighted, the department is very happy to speak to any project that sees that it is facing perhaps unavoidable delays in delivery. Our first priority should be looking at what we can do to reduce those delays, but, as I have said, we have also put in place flexibility in the system to extend some of the deadlines.

Levelling Up Fund

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

No, my Lords. Anybody who knows anything about local government funding knows that this has been looked at by many Governments over many years, but we are committed, in the levelling up White Paper, to look at the complexity of this and to try to make it a better system.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I put on record my appreciation of the fact that the Government have helped the slate quarrying communities of north-west Wales, but can the Minister clarify whether the fact that the money allocated to that and other schemes has to be used within two years means that it has to be committed within two years or actually has to be spent? If it is the latter, there could be problems in meeting the timescale because of some of the constraints on availability and factors within the economy.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

First, I say congratulations to Wales on getting the highest amount per capita out of this round. I am sorry; I will have to get an answer to that. I do not know the detail of the agreement, but I will make sure I get an answer to the noble Lord.

Levelling Up: Funding Allocation

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords—

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords—

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Lord Wigley Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I too congratulate the maiden speakers, and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, on the concise and clear way in which he outlined four points in just four minutes —perhaps an example to us all.

I want to address the way in which this legislation impacts on the devolved Governments. I will start with three basic points. First, there is a huge disparity in wealth between south-east England on the one hand and many parts of northern England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Strategies of successive Governments have failed to close that chasm. It is not just the fault of Westminster Governments: the failure of the Welsh Government to use EU structural funds in a strategic manner is also open to criticism.

Secondly, if there is to be a new strategic approach rather than a mishmash of palliatives, that strategy has to be co-ordinated between the various tiers of government.

Thirdly, areas offered financial help for a worthwhile project will, obviously, jump at the chance. However, having positive responses from local areas does not guarantee provision of a coherent, overall strategy. That needs a co-ordinated approach at all levels of government.

The Bill does not appear to provide new resources. If much-needed new money is available, it surely must be prioritised in co-operation with the devolved Governments.

Amendments are needed for safeguards to be written into the Bill to clarify whether the powers arising from it have implications for the devolved nations. The portfolios devolved to Wales include responsibility for housing, roads and planning—all central to this Bill. In Parts 1, 2, most of Part 3, and Parts 4 to 8—as well as in other parts—the Bill includes many provisions for the UK government Minister to take initiatives which may apply to England and Wales. Furthermore, Clause 218 appears to give the Secretary of State powers to amend an Act of Senedd Cymru or of the Scottish Parliament. Clause 83 places a duty on the Secretary of State to “consult” devolved Administrations, but there is no need to secure the agreement of the Welsh Government. Let us be clear. The functions central to the Bill are either devolved to Wales or they are not. If they are devolved, the English Minister has no right to interfere with them. There are, of course, responsibilities in Wales which still rest with Westminster, such as the police and broadcasting. Their devolution to Wales would certainly be very welcome.

If new money is eventually available, everyone will want to benefit from any funding they can obtain to deliver their programme. No one should be blamed for trying to get a share for their own square mile. However, the truth is surely that the economic regeneration of our communities will never be built on the sandy foundation of handouts and giveaways. It must come back to the old Chinese proverb that if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day; if you teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

Surely northern English cities, like our communities in Wales, need assistance to enable them to help themselves. They need the capacity, skills, training and vision to want a better future and to drive the work that will secure it. Levelling up will happen as a consequence of such investment. It comes at the end of the process which gives local communities the vision and confidence to believe in themselves and to desire to build a better future. The UK Government can help them in this process but not, I fear, adequately through the Bill. They need an enabling Act, harnessing the powers, skills and vision of local communities and giving their locality, as of right, the authority to act for itself. They need provisions that enable them to help themselves, not to depend on handouts. The Bill fails to deliver such a coherent approach.

Devolved Administrations: Intergovernmental Relations

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The Treasury considers a range of factors when setting fiscal events, including the impact on the devolved Administrations. The Scottish Government’s agreed fiscal framework sets out that funding will normally be finalised in the autumn prior to each financial year. Delivering the Autumn Statement on 17 November is therefore in line with these normal arrangements. The fiscal framework also recognises that normal arrangements sometimes need to be delayed, so sets out alternative arrangements in such a scenario. However, I do not think that delivering this on 17 November is such a case; for example, I think what it is thinking of are abnormal events such as when we had a general election close to Christmas.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

Will the Minister accept that the last three or four years have been a period when relationships between Westminster and Cardiff have been far from satisfactory? Given that we have a new Government, will she give an undertaking that there will be a positive initiative to try to overcome the difficulties that have existed, particularly by giving information to the Government in Cardiff in good time, so that they can react after considering the matter and not be rushed into taking decisions that cause problems later?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The Prime Minister set the tone for the Government’s collaborative approach to working with the devolved Governments right from his very first day in office. I can tell the House that the Prime Minister expects to meet the First Ministers again later this week. That is the tone that he has set and that we will continue.