Government Performance against Fiscal Rules

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Lord Livermore

Tuesday 8th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I know that that is the policy of the noble Lord’s party; it is not the policy of this party. The OBR fiscal risks report talks about an ageing population and how that presents significant fiscal challenges in supporting pensioners. The landmark pensions review, in terms of delivering better outcomes for savers and strengthening the economy, is important in that regard.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that, if we get defence policy wrong and there is a war, welfare and the National Health Service will count for nothing?

UK–China Economic and Financial Strategy Dialogue

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Lord Livermore

Tuesday 4th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I completely disagree with the noble Lord’s characterisation of the Chancellor’s visit to China. As I said, we must and will continue to engage with our international partners in trade and investment, and that includes engaging with China. We cannot ignore the fact that China is the second-largest economy worldwide and our fourth-largest trading partner, with exports supporting close to half a million jobs in the UK. We need to help British businesses export around the world, and that includes to China. On human rights and the parliamentary sanctions that the noble Lord talks about, the Chancellor did raise those—absolutely—but she believes that, unless we open that dialogue, we will be unable to raise the concerns that we have.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

Were there any discussions at all about the Chinese merchant fleet and the use of certain ships by the Russians as the shadow fleet—and also the £7 trillion worth of trade that goes through the South China Sea and is threatened by Chinese actions?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

Of course, I was not in the room, so I cannot entirely judge exactly whether those issues were raised—but certainly the Chancellor raised important issues of national security. She raised the concerns that the UK Government have about China, and Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine, so the issues that my noble friend raises would have been very much at the forefront of their discussions.