HGVs: Charging and Refuelling

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 22nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I will certainly ensure that my colleagues are aware of the noble Baroness’s interest. The price controls being used by Ofgem are very helpful in encouraging investment. There is new, agile regulation called the net zero reopener, which allows network operators to apply for additional funding for zero-emission projects.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

The noble Lord, Lord Howell, is absolutely right about the exponential increase in demand for electrical power. Does the Minister agree that the only way we can really achieve this and have the right amount of baseload power is through the use of nuclear? We really must put all our weight behind producing nuclear power, developing SMRs and getting it available; otherwise, there is no way we will meet this requirement.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My colleagues at DESNZ, as I believe it is called nowadays, will be cognisant of our need to produce a significant amount of renewable electricity in future, and I hope that nuclear is part of that.

Global Britain: Traffic

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 15th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I think there is a slight question of clarification here. The data that my noble friend cites actually misses out several cities in the world. Lagos’s traffic is 10 times worse than London’s, and in Seoul it is twice as bad—so London is not the worst. However, what we have to understand, and what the Government understand, is that one needs a mixed economy for transport. Of course, car usage is important, but particularly in London, where excellent public transport is available, we need to make sure that we use that more. I note that traffic is back to 100% of pre-pandemic levels, but the Tube remains persistently below them. I think that the Mayor of London should be doing more to get people back on the Tube.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, it is quite clear that London’s traffic is grinding to a halt; I drive in it regularly. I have talked to the people doing work on my house, doing boilers—brickies, and this sort of thing. They say that they can achieve only two tasks a day rather than three, and this has a real economic impact on their lives and on this city of ours. It is a disgrace, and something must be done to speed it up and allow a freer flow of traffic.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I absolutely encourage the noble Lord to speak to his friend and colleague who currently holds the mayoralty for London. It is up to him to think about how that balance is achieved. I agree that there are challenges with regard to economic activity for those people who need to use the roads, and that is why the balance of transport is so important—and I believe that more can be done.

Cars: Headlight Glare

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 30th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the complexity of road crossings. Does the Minister feel that the number of signs one comes across, for example in London—telling one that one cannot turn left, right, go straight on; where the cyclists go, what the parking is like, what the speed limit has changed to—are so numerous? Has there been any study into what a human being can understand without running people over because he is trying to look at them all?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, there is something called sign blindness where you get too many signs and the brain gets overwhelmed. We are very conscious of that, and that is why we are looking again at our guidance to local authorities. In London, that would fall under the remit of the Mayor of London, so the noble Lord may wish to take it up with him. I am aware of some junctions near me that could certainly do with some attention.

Stockton to Darlington Railway Anniversary

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Unfortunately, I am unable to give a clearer indication of the size of any government financial support, principally because the plans are still in development. We know that Sir Peter Hendy is working some up, but of course there will be other plans coming through from DCMS and DfT. As those plans come together, of course the Government will consider financial support.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

The Minister has articulated very clearly how important the whole heritage scene is, particularly in the railway endeavour. Can I ask her—in her hat as Transport Minister—who is responsible for heritage and historic ships, which are crucially important for our coastal communities?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The interesting thing is that heritage railways actually fall under DCMS. The noble Lord asked me about heritage ships. I am afraid I do not know, so I will write.

P&O Ferries

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 29th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can reassure my noble friend that the port state control inspections being undertaken on all affected vessels include a normal PSC inspection. They also look at crew employment contracts, crew qualifications, crew familiarisation and emergency preparedness.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, 40 years ago next month, a task force went to the south Atlantic. It had 73 merchant ships. The bulk of the people on board those were of course British merchant seamen, because when we fight a war with our merchant ships, we need British merchant seamen there. Part of the problem with all the complexity in this area is that it has driven British merchant seamen out of the business. Do the Government have any plans to ensure that we have sufficient merchant seamen for any strategic needs we might have in the future?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, the Government are well aware of that issue. We started the work back in 2019 when we published Maritime 2050. We want to ensure that we have British people with the right skills to work on British ships in British-based operations.

Payments to Train Operating Companies

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not think that is the case. Obviously there are various scenarios which we consider when we look at HS2. It is a very long-term strategic system. It connects many of our major cities across the country and, provided that we get local transport integrated with that investment with HS2, it will be successful.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

There was an article in the paper this morning about closing many ticket offices. Is this likely to happen? If so, is that a better service for the passengers on our rail network?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Ticketing and fare reform is a key part of what we hope to do with Great British Railways. The leadership there will help with the mass of complicated fares which currently exist. We will be supplementing that with £360 million of investment in fares, ticketing and retailing. We will deliver contactless pay-as-you-go in 700 stations in urban areas across the country, including 400 stations in the north, and we will provide digital ticketing across the network and upgrade ticket vending machines. Obviously we will have to look at the number of ticket offices available, but we will also ensure that people get the level of customer support that they need.

Global Traffic Scorecard: London

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Wednesday 5th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, no matter how much this is dressed up, there is no doubt whatever that congestion in London has got worse, and part of the reason for that is bad cycle lanes, as on the Marylebone Road, Park Lane and Lower Thames Street. Another reason is the closing of so many small back roads, so that the moment there is an accident, or something like that, everything clogs up. The journey that I do every day, and which I have done to try to avoid public transport and not give everyone in this House Covid, takes a third longer than it used to; it is getting longer and longer. We have to do something. Surely we must open up those side roads and get those bicycle lanes sorted out.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Well, I would very much encourage the noble Lord to use public transport. There is nothing wrong with public transport, and I think that even he would find it perfectly comfortable. He also might wish to talk to his colleague in the Labour Party, the Mayor of London, whose responsibility it is for London. But the noble Lord mentioned something that had not come up previously: low traffic neighbourhoods. They are really important for reducing rat-running, and we think that, where they are well introduced, following local consultation, they can be hugely effective in encouraging people to take up cycling and walking and for taking traffic off the streets.

Isles of Scilly: Ships

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 23rd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am pleased to be able to reassure the noble Lord that, of course, the current status of the bid is that it is in its very early stages. As I said, we will be writing to the sponsor setting out further requirements for the business case. By the time this comes for ministerial sign-off, we will have had not only an OBC but also an FBC, and it will be done with the five different businesses cases. That would be normal, according to the Treasury rules. It will be a very rigorous process, during which we will, of course, assess the commercial elements of the bid. The noble Lord should just follow the process carefully; the bid would appreciate his support and guidance in getting it through the government systems.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest in that I like ships. Notwithstanding what the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, says, I am delighted that a ship will be provided by some means for the Scilly Isles; it is very much needed. We are still awaiting the refreshed national shipbuilding strategy—we have been waiting rather a long time—but this will presumably be encompassed within that. Will the ship be built in the UK with UK steel? Appledore shipyard, for example, which is very close by, is ready to do the build; we have a lot of shipyards waiting for this work. Will the Government ensure that it meets the very highest standards as a green ship? In that context, we should make it the very best ferry in the world because there are opportunities for sales. Can we please not make a complete pot mess of this, as the Scottish Government have of the ferries that they have been trying to get?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure the noble Lord that I like boats too.

Transport Decarbonisation

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 19th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I have not addressed the HGV issue as yet, and it is important. That is why we are consulting: we believe there needs to be a date from which non-zero HGVs will not be able to be sold. There is another issue which we want to consult on—increasing the permissible weights for zero electric and alternatively fuelled HGVs down the road—but HGVs produce 16% of carbon emissions and we must do something about it. We are looking 15 to 20 years in the future. Leyland DAF already manufactures a 19-tonne battery electric HGV. We expect development to continue apace. That may well include hydrogen.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, despite the maritime sector being economically larger than aviation and rail combined, it appears to be the poor relative in the Government’s net-zero drive. If we are to level up our coastal communities and bring shipbuilding home, we need the Government to invest in research and innovation on a scale similar to the automotive and aviation sectors. I hope something can be done in the autumn spending review to put the investment in place to do it. I shall push the Minister a little further on shore power points, which, after all, are very straightforward. How many are currently planned to be put in place? Can she confirm that they will be funded by industry and government together?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Unfortunately the noble Lord is pushing me beyond my knowledge, but I will write to him about shore power points, how many there will be in future and who will fund them. On maritime as a whole, it is worth saying that the conversation has only just started. We must work with stakeholders on a course to zero for the maritime sector. We will increase our ambitions at the IMO, particularly when there is a review of greenhouse gas strategy in 2023. There are all sorts of things that we can do. This is the start of the story, not the end.

Human Rights at Sea

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord mentioned that my reply only concerned UK-flagged vessels, but I did also mention vessels at UK ports that are not UK-flagged. The Government are not able to provide formal UK support for the declaration that has been established by the charity of which I believe the noble Lord has been a patron for the last three months, and that has been discussed today. But what I can say is that we are hugely supportive of the existing international frameworks that already exist. The Maritime Labour Convention provides comprehensive rights and protections for the world’s 1.2 million seafarers, and ILO 188, the Work in Fishing Convention, does similar for those who work in fisheries.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as president of the Merchant Navy Association. For the benefit of the media outlets which pay particular attention to our House, that is unpaid, as are so many of the duties that so many of us fulfil.

One of the devastating effects of the pandemic has been the impact it has had on tens of thousands of merchant seamen who have been unable to return home after their voyages and have served many months over their maximum limits that were set for safety and welfare. What have the Government done to resolve this problem? Can the Minister explain why a group of British merchant seamen returning to the United Kingdom via Holland with British passports were locked up and berated about Brexit, while those with EU passports were waved through?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that the impact of Covid on seafarers has been critical in some circumstances. We take the welfare of seafarers extremely seriously. The UK was one of the first countries—if not the first—to recognise and declare seafarers as key workers during the pandemic. Once we had done that, we brought together more than a dozen nations for a ministerial summit in July 2020. We managed to galvanise people into action. This ultimately led to the declaration in the UN General Assembly later in the year to call on all states to take action to protect the welfare of seafarers in the pandemic.

P&O Ferries

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 5th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, ferries are the lifeblood of many communities around the United Kingdom, and the Government have trumpeted a new shipbuilding strategy—at the moment, without any new ship orders. The noble Baroness has highlighted to me before in this House the Government’s push to reduce merchant ship emissions as part of the green revolution. To focus on just one of the many opportunities that I think there are to pull these threads together, I ask her to encourage the Government to replace the almost 50 year-old Scilly Islands ferry, which will soon not be able to run at all, with a new, green ship—I do not mean its colour, of course—to be built at Appledore, a very efficient and capable West Country shipyard with currently no work whatever, ensuring the continued future link between the mainland and the Scillies and killing three birds with one stone.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question, which is slightly beyond the remit of what we are discussing today—but never mind, I will take his suggestion back to the department. The department is very keen to make maritime more green and it is the case that the ferry service to the Isles of Scilly is a lifeline service. It is essential that it continues, and it should do so in the greenest ships possible.

Covid-19: Transport Industry

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government recognise the important role that general aviation plays in providing the grass-roots element from which so many who go on to the commercial sector come. I reassure my noble friend that the Government are focusing carefully on aviation recovery work, which will include general aviation. It will look at regional connectivity, economic growth, decarbonisation and, perhaps most importantly in the field of general aviation, workforce and skills.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that many maritime businesses have worked incredibly hard to keep supply chains open and goods flowing during the Covid crisis. However, this has resulted in businesses exhausting their cash reserves, leaving very little funding for them to begin the vital work of decarbonising the maritime industry. Will the Minister confirm that the Government will provide the necessary funding, requested by the maritime industry in recent meetings, to kickstart the urgent process of decarbonisation?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord will know that the Government published their Maritime 2050 strategy a little while back. Of course, our commitment to decarbonisation remains extremely strong. There are a number of conversations going on at the moment about maritime decarbonisation, and some ideas have been put forward for the spending review.

Spain: Travel

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 28th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]]

The right reverend Prelate raises a very important point. For the time being, we are taking the approach by country for border measures, but we could put them in place for regions in the future. We are not there yet, but we are certainly looking at it, because it is an appropriate consideration.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is absolutely right that our Government should take action for the safety of our people, despite what any other nation might say. My concern, however, is that many of the Government’s decisions relating to the Wuhan virus seem to be kneejerk and have a scattergun effect. It is not at all clear that policy is joined up across Whitehall. In early July, I was in France; on return, government policy, after some indecision, was for self-isolation for two weeks. This advice changed the day after my return and nobody officially took any notice of my whereabouts. While I believe that people should use their common sense, will the Minister tell us what mechanism has been put in place to ensure that the two-week self-isolation for those returning from Spain is being complied with?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton [V]]

The noble Lord is right that there are enforcement measures in place for people returning from Spain or elsewhere, where a self-isolation period of 14 days is required. PHE is undertaking spot checks as part of the enforcement approach and there is a possibility of a £1,000 fixed penalty notice for those people who are not self-isolating.

Covid-19: Aviation

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord is quite right that we need some positive support for the aviation sector. That is why we have the aviation restart and recovery expert group, which includes representatives from airlines, airports, unions and industry bodies. It is putting together the best minds to work out how we can make sure that our aviation sector comes out of this as well as it possibly can. For example, it is setting up common health standards to be applied to an air passenger’s journey, from home all the way through to the other side. That is the sort of system that will help the sector to get back on its feet.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, with an estimated 16,000 of the world’s commercial aircraft grounded and stored, airlines are doing whatever they can to cancel orders and delay the delivery of ordered aircraft. Some airlines are falling into administration. Many older aircraft have been placed in store and are unlikely ever to be able to be flown again. Commercial aircraft and engine manufacturers, along with those engaged in important supply chains, have been forced to act to ensure survival. How can we ensure a healthy and fit-for-purpose aviation industry, which will be crucial for economic recovery and hoped-for growth? Have our experts made any prediction that the Government are using for planning purposes of when the recovery of airline usage will occur and when, if ever, it will return to current levels? Will Project Birch provide similar support for our aviation industry as that being provided by the US Government and the Dutch and German Governments for their national airlines?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I refer the noble Lord to the response that I have just given about the aviation restart and recovery expert group. It is looking at all the issues that he has, rightly, pointed out, including the impact on the wider supply chain across the aviation sector. Project Birch is not industry-specific but is open to any company that makes a significant economic contribution to our country. It will offer bespoke support to a specific company, and that will be done from a value-for-money perspective for the taxpayer, on a company-by-company basis. In that regard, we will be able to support some of our most important companies that contribute to our economic future.

Smart Motorways

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Tuesday 17th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, that was the absolute crux of the 79-page report that we have prepared. We looked at it in two different ways. We looked at the average numbers and then delved down into the detail on whether a motorway, when it becomes a smart motorway, is more or less safe. I therefore encourage the noble Lord to read the 79-page report, if he has time over the coming weeks. From that, he will see that, in most ways, smart motorways are safer. In a smaller number of ways, on specific things, they may not be, but that again is within the margin of error. We are acting on these 18 points because it is absolutely important that people should feel safe as well as being safe.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, speaking as a simple sailor, it seems amazing to me that we call this smart. We have a road on which cars go along at about 70 miles per hour. If your car goes wrong, you stop in that road where cars are doing 70 miles per hour. I cannot see how that is smart when quite often there is no large gap where you can pull over. I would certainly not feel very happy if my car broke down—luckily it does not do that very often—having to stop on the inside lane of a motorway where traffic is belting along at 70 miles per hour. It does not seem very smart.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord will be well aware that if you are barrelling along at 70 miles per hour on the A31 Hog’s Back and you stop, there is no technology at all and there is no hard shoulder. We have roads all across our country that do not have a hard shoulder.

Flybe

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Thursday 5th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank my noble friend for his comment. I believe that this work is already under way.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, how will Flybe’s collapse impact on Skybus and its flights across the Scilly Isles? Does this make it even more important that we push for the ferry that should be running between the island and the mainland?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I am not aware of any impact on Skybus, although I am not 100% sure about that. The Isles of Scilly are a very important destination for a number of Members of your Lordships’ House, and a ferry is certainly a very good way of getting there.

Holyhead

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 2nd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, that is a long and complex question with a long and complex answer. As noble Lords will know, arrangements for borders in the Irish Sea or elsewhere are currently under discussion.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the infrastructure in Holyhead, like the infrastructure in many ports around the UK, does not include the ability for ships, particularly ferries in the case of Holyhead, to plug in and go on to shore power. Consequently, when they are berthed alongside, they have to run their diesel generators all the time, which has a huge impact on the environment. Is there is any intention to make sure that the ports around our nation have shoreside electrical supplies so that we can cut this huge spike in diesel emissions?

Air Accident Investigation

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 10th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The noble Lord is completely right, and we share his concerns around grey charters. It is illegal to operate a commercial flight without an operating licence and an air operating certificate, which of course is overseen by the CAA. As a result of these concerns, the Department for Transport has commenced an independent review of the safety of general aviation, and one of the strands of work that is happening as part of that review is to look at illegal charters and consider what more steps we could be taking to prevent them.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I know that the Minister is well aware of the skill of our underwater workers in the Navy, as was shown when we recovered some Russian submariners less than 10 years ago. Can she confirm that we are still world leaders in that area, or do we now lag behind? If she cannot answer that on security grounds, could she perhaps write on a Privy Council basis?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. I can say that when the evidence-gathering phase following this tragic incident occurred, the AAIB worked with the MoD Salvage and Marine Operations team, which advised it on the manner of conducting the search, safety—whether to use divers—and to make sure that the ROV was operating properly. I will of course write to the noble Lord on the second part of his question.

Maritime Security

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Thursday 5th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I assure the noble Lord that the funding is currently for one year, but the department recognises the critical work that these two organisations do, and it will be pressing very hard for a longer-term commitment in future.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that positive response about the funding. We have been trying to do that for a long time. The Minister will know that the previous Labour Government set up the NMIC, so I am delighted it is going down the right track. However, we have a dearth of assets among all the departments, including the Navy, which is responsible for our offshore tapestry—our territorial seas and protection of the coast—so it is essential that those few assets are properly co-ordinated. Can the Minister assure me that the man now in charge of this centre has the authority to take command and control of assets belonging to different departments to respond to a specific emergency?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

It is always a pleasure to receive a question from the noble Lord. Indeed, the man now in charge is in your Lordships’ House today. It was, of course, the current Government who set up JMOCC, which works very closely with the NMIC. The noble Lord is quite right that maritime assets are spread over a number of organisations: Border Force, the Royal Navy and the coastguard. Co-ordination of these assets is incredibly important. JMOCC was set up in October 2017, so it is not even two years old. It has a lot of capability to deal with live incidents and make sure that maritime assets are in the right place. One of the things this £9 million will do is provide extra capacity so that a planning team can be built to make sure we have optimum deployment of all vessels where we need them.

Bombardier

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

The anxiety so clearly outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, is common to many Members of your Lordships’ House. I will certainly make sure that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland looks at Hansard and takes his comments on board.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom in effect leads the world in wing design and wing construction. It is one of our areas of excellence. Bombardier has just posted remarkably high profits. Is there any indication that it is trying to move some of this knowledge and skill to places such as Mexico?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, there is no indication that it is trying to do something like that. The UK is a very important hub for the more high-spec and high-tech ends of wing design and wing manufacture. On profitability, Bombardier is not just about aeroplanes; it is also about trains. We know that you cannot look at overall profitability and say, “Okay, it’s all profitable. Surely these sorts of things don’t have to happen”. That is not the case. This is a massive company with many billions of pounds-worth of revenue. While it is true that its profitability has improved, it is nothing like where it should be, given the amount of capital invested in it. If the five-year transformation plan works it will put the company on a firmer footing.

Children Act 1989 (Amendment) (Female Genital Mutilation) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 20th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in today’s debate. The strength of support for the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, from all sides of the House is testament to the unanimous desire to stamp out this barbaric act. Female genital mutilation is an extremely painful and harmful practice that blights the lives of many girls and women. The Government roundly condemn this practice and are determined to see it eradicated in this country and elsewhere.

The practice of FGM is an age-old one, deeply steeped in the culture and tradition of practising communities. Those who practise it no doubt genuinely believe that it is in their children’s best interests to conform with the prevailing custom of their community. But that does not excuse such a gross violation of their human rights. It is wholly unacceptable to allow a practice that can have such devastating consequences for the health of a young girl. The physical and psychological effects can last throughout her life. The mutilation and impairment of young girls and women can have no place in modern society.

The Government are clear that tackling FGM is about protecting vulnerable girls and women. That is why, in 2015, the Government introduced several legislative measures to strengthen the law on FGM to help make prosecutions more likely and protect women and girls at risk. These measures included extending extraterritorial jurisdiction to cover offences of FGM committed abroad by habitual, as well as permanent, UK residents; lifelong anonymity for victims of FGM; the creation of a new offence of failing to protect a girl from the risk of FGM; a mandatory duty to report FGM in girls under the age of 18; and the introduction of female genital mutilation protection orders—FGMPOs.

However, bringing perpetrators to justice cannot happen unless victims or those at risk of FGM come forward. The highly personal and intimate nature of the offence may be one reason for a victim or a girl at risk being reluctant to report FGM. But added to this is the fact that the crime of FGM is usually committed in a family context, with most victims or those at risk too young, scared or unwilling to report members of their own family. This makes it a more complex and sensitive issue and one where gathering sufficient evidence to prosecute is challenging. That is why the police continue to work with a broad range of agencies to raise awareness of FGM and encourage more people to report it.

FGM occurs in specific communities, with religious reasons cited as one explanation of why FGM is practised. But, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, mentioned, it is not mentioned in the Koran. Since 2014, the Government have been working with faith leaders to address the practice of FGM, with a specific focus on breaking the perception that FGM is indeed a faith requirement. It is not. Over 250 faith and community leaders have signed a declaration denouncing the practice, and the Government are using their work with faith leaders in target communities to reach further into other communities.

Education of girls and women is essential, and education from within their communities is likely to be the most effective. The noble Baroness, Lady Flather, mentioned the prevalence of FGM in Africa, and FGM is indeed unlikely to end in the UK before it ends in Africa. The Department for International Development has led a £35 million flagship programme—the noble Baroness, Lady Featherstone, mentioned it as part of an interesting anecdote about working as a team in coalition government—that supports the Africa-led movement to end FGM, and is supporting work in 17 countries.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, gave an outstanding speech in which he set out the challenges and impacts of FGM and the steps that have been taken so far. I welcome his support for the action taken by the Government. We are keen to do more. I also welcome his focus and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, on advocacy. Both are right, and it must be a priority as we take things forward.

I was very pleased—and, indeed, a little relieved—that the Bill attracted the significant support of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood. He mentioned the lack of prosecutions, as did the noble Baronesses, Lady Kennedy and Lady Massey, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton. Regrettably, they are right, but, as also noted by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, prosecutions must not be undertaken lightly. As I mentioned, FGM cases are challenging to prosecute for many reasons.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. I must say that I have a sense of déjà vu. I feel very strongly about FGM. Eleven years ago, sitting in her place, I worked very closely with Lady Rendell because we were not getting anywhere—we were not moving things forward. There was Project Azure with the Metropolitan Police, and one issue was no prosecutions. It is appalling that we were trying then to do it—I know the complexity—and yet for some reason we still cannot do it. We must break the logjam, as well as do all the other things which are so important. I feel a complete failure that in 11 years we have not done something about such an abhorrent and terrible thing.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention and of course agree, but with the caveat that we must ensure that the prosecutions are the right ones. The Crown Prosecution Service’s female genital mutilation prosecution guidance provides guidance for prosecutors in dealing with cases of FGM. The guidance was revised following the amendments made to the Female Genital Mutilation Act 2003 by the Serious Crime Act, as I outlined earlier. In addition, lead FGM prosecutors have now been appointed for each CPS area, and all those areas have agreed protocols with their local police forces setting out the arrangements for investigation and prosecution of FGM.

We would all like more prosecutions for FGM, there is no doubt about that. However, we must make sure that we do not prosecute the wrong people.

Marine Special Protection Areas

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 21st May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

My Lords, we have spoken about bats in the belfry in this House a number of times recently. I agree with the noble Baroness that perpetuity is potentially not correct and a review may need to happen in due course. But it must be remembered that population changes and impacts on population can sometimes happen over decades and we must never be too hasty.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government are to be congratulated on the fact that they have established some of the largest marine protection areas on the globe around British Overseas Territories. But if you establish a protection area, you have to patrol it and enforce it, and no thought whatever seems to have been given to the ships and boats necessary to do that. The same applies in UK waters. Has any consideration been given to the exact number of ships and boats required for this and other tasks post Brexit?

Fracking: Policing

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Vere of Norbiton

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I will have to revert to the noble Lord on whether he has those statutory powers. However, special grant funding has been used to support fracking protests before. In 2014, Sussex got £905,000. Greater Manchester applied for funding but it was refused because it was not a significant amount of its budget. However, in the case of Lancashire, the application for £3.1 million is still under consideration and no decision has yet been made.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the attractions of fracking is that it produces fuel onshore. The noble Baroness will be aware that over 30% of the energy supply in this country comes across the sea. As the Government seem intent on scrapping or selling the bulk of the Royal Navy, does that make fracking even more important to us in the future?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I thank the noble Lord for his intervention and I am pleased that we got on to the Navy. However, to turn to ships, the noble Lord raises a very important point. One-third of our energy demand comes from gas and we currently import a huge amount of gas. By 2030, we could be importing three-quarters of the gas that we use. That will come in ships from the US, which is a very long way away. That is why we need fracking in our country.