European Council

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Monday 22nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I certainly think that the Government have a responsibility to be clear about what they are advancing and to communicate that directly to the people. But I also think that the media play an important part in our democratic process. Noble Lords have been arguing about other people making their case, and it is important as well that, through the media, people get to hear the arguments for and against. I would never stand at this Dispatch Box and criticise the work of the UK media.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness the Leader of the House will be well aware that there is no doubt whatever that the people of our nation are safer in terms of terrorism and serious organised crime because we are part of the EU. We lead Europol and have the European arrest warrant and all sorts of things. At the grand strategic level of defence, there is no doubt that NATO is most important to us. However, does the noble Baroness agree that Europe is very important to our nation? We have twice saved its bacon in the last 100 years and there is no doubt that, at the moment, there are huge threats. If we left the EU, I think there would be a certain flakiness within it. Does the noble Baroness agree? This is a very bad moment for that to happen. Europe needs us and, if it becomes flaky, the risks from people like Putin and the southern flank would be huge. We need to bear these things in mind.

Syria: Brimstone Missiles

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, we have not yet heard from the Conservative Benches.

UK Territorial Space: Spanish Incursions

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Monday 9th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of the Labour Benches.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, the Minister will be well aware that the ships we have in Gibraltar are in fact very tender, do not have very long range and are not nearly fast enough. Of course, the people manning them are very proud of them and do their best but it is their job to say that they are doing their best and they are good. The reality is that they are not good enough for the job and because of that there will be an incident where someone may be killed or badly injured. The Government of Gibraltar have said that they are willing to pay for faster, bigger craft. That has been done before with other countries we have been responsible for. Could we look at this very closely, so that we can get these new craft and then be able to do things that will not risk injury or death for our people there?

European Council

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Monday 19th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the sea state and the weather in the Mediterranean are deteriorating rapidly. We are unwittingly going to cause the deaths of increasing numbers of men, women and children. Does the noble Baroness agree that the only way to stop the flow of people from Libya is to blockade the coast? She is well aware that international law at sea allows us to do boardings without an EU requirement to do so, and that only by blockading the coast and really getting at people smugglers can we stop them being able to advertise our ships and EU ships as part of their ticket to Europe.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord knows that, as I have mentioned, we have progressed from search and rescue to being able to target the smugglers who are operating these ships; we can actually go on board and tackle those on board. We are not yet at a point where we can move closer to the Libyan borders, but what will see us being able to make that kind of progress will be the unity Government in Libya that we so much want to see in place as soon as possible. Once there is stable governance in Libya, we can see the further action that the noble Lord and others would like see taken.

Tunisia and European Council

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Monday 29th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister made it clear that he believes that ISIL and Daesh are actually a threat to the existence of our nation at the moment. I have to say I do not see it in that way, but he has said that. Clearly that means—rather like the last time we had such a threat, which was the Second World War and the Cold War—one has to look at spending priorities in a totally different way, and things such as foreign aid, education, the National Health Service and welfare have to take a hit because we need to spend money on defence and security. However, my question is more specific. When we started our air campaign in Iraq, we said that we would not do attacks into Syria unless something specific—an atrocity or something—happened. Those of us in the military pointed out it made no military sense not to do attacks into Syria. Is this now being looked at again so that we have some more cohesive aspect to what should be a much bigger overall strategic plan, which a number of us have talked about?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I think what the Prime Minister said was that ISIL presents an existential threat to the United Kingdom. In response to the point that the noble Lord makes about military action and intervention and expanding on what we are already doing in the area, as he knows, the House of Commons was given an opportunity to consider whether we should get involved militarily in Syria and decided against that action. We believe that what we are doing right now is an appropriate and a very valid and important contribution to the fight against ISIL. Ultimately, we believe—and the international community feels—that to properly combat the threat of terrorism that emanates from ISIL there needs to be better governance in these countries. That is going to take a long time, and we need to support the people in the relevant countries to form the kind of representation of all the people that will lead to stability in those areas.

Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament Report: Fusilier Lee Rigby

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am certainly grateful to my noble friend for echoing the support for the security services and the work that they do to keep all of us safe in this country. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank my noble friend for his work as a member of that committee. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Butler, from this House is also a member of the committee, and there are other Members of this House who have been previous members of that committee.

On my noble friend’s point about prioritisation still being necessary even in light of increased funding, that is right and will always be the case. There is a need for balancing prioritisation with not delaying the necessary steps. I quoted from the statement of the MI5 Director General in the Statement by the Prime Minister that I repeated. The security services do not have an army of people waiting to deploy; they have to use their resources all the time as best they see fit, and they are doing a very good job.

On the capability gap regarding communications service providers, which my noble friend mentioned, he is right that we have to use our influence at all levels and I can confirm to him and the House that that is happening right up to the highest level, including the Prime Minister with the President of the United States.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware that since the revelations of the traitor Snowden, terrorist groups—in particular ISIL—have changed their methods of communications, and have shifted to other ways of talking to each other. Consequently there are people dying who would otherwise be alive. Does the Minister agree that it is now critical that we move forward the Communications Data Bill, which was paused so unreasonably, because there is a very real danger that unless we do—and I am not exaggerating in saying this—people in this country will die who would have been safe if it was in place?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord is right to say that the leaking by Snowden and the reporting of his leaks have had a serious effect on intelligence gathering. That is unquestionable. There is evidence that some of the terrorists and terrorist groups, in the light of that knowledge, are now moving their exchanges to different places, where the intelligence services are not operating, because they now know where they do and where they do not.

As far as introducing the Communications Data Bill is concerned, in the summer we introduced the emergency legislation which addressed some gaps there. The counterterrorism Bill that will be introduced tomorrow will close another gap. This is an area where I believe we will continue to have to keep making progress. We are not ready to move as far as the noble Lord suggests at this moment. To be successful in introducing a Communications Data Bill, we will need a consensus, and we do not have that yet.

Ukraine (Shooting Down of MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Monday 21st July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As the Statement says, even the separatists did not want to target a commercial airliner: that is the point we are trying to get at. It is not a question of evidence being gathered to show that there was that intent; it is about the aircraft that they were focusing on. As regards my noble friend’s point about the fly zone above this area, it is important to note that the controls that were in place extended to a specific height, and that this commercial airliner was above the height determined to be safe. However, those controls have now been extended and there is a complete lockdown of the whole area at any height. My noble friend rightly said that the fighting needs to stop and talking needs to start. We are very clear that Russia needs to take steps to de-escalate the action in Ukraine. We need to ensure movement to bring security to Ukraine very soon.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

The shooting down of MH17 was clearly an unexpected atrocity. However, we must not be surprised at that because atrocities happen every day in civil wars, as we see in Syria and Iraq and saw in Bosnia. I am afraid that these irregulars will behave in a very inhumane way: that is what happens in civil wars. There is no doubt whatever that Putin has been caught on the back foot. He has been caught out in this situation for the second time. The first time was the revolution in Kiev, where he was very badly caught out. We must think very carefully about how the Russians perceive this. They conflate NATO, the EU and America and see them all as a threat. We never gave any credit whatever to the fact that Crimea has a special status. There is no love lost between me and Putin, but does the Minister really believe that forcing him even further into a corner will help the settlement within Ukraine? Would it not be far better to aim to stop all fighting and have a conference whereby we can leave Russia primarily to broker some sort of agreement because, in the end, the Minister must agree, it is only with the Russians that we can get peace in this region?

Businesses: Town-centre Parking

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The point that I am making to the noble Lord is that parking is an issue that affects all areas and is of great importance, and that we are not afraid to address an important issue in a proper manner.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, about 51 years ago Admiralty Fleet Order 150/63 was produced, which taught one how to treat snake bites. The first step was: kill the snake. Does the Minister believe that the snakes here are people who dislike and hate car owners? As the right reverend Prelate says, in small towns people have to use cars and there should be a concerted effort to ease restrictions in those sorts of places.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord is right, and I am disappointed if my response to the right reverend Prelate did not give him the right impression. Clearly, access to free parking is an important matter for people. The Government are trying to make changes in order to ensure that, in particular in small towns and those that are not thriving in the way that they deserve, we are not blocking their progress.

Housing: New-build Homes

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Thursday 31st October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The Government’s approach is driven by need and by local communities being in charge of deciding what is built in their areas, rather than the top-down approach that has been taken in the past. During the past few years, we have been ensuring that any new development that may have been stalled but which can provide the kind of new accommodation to which my noble friend refers receives support to get that new construction under way.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

Is the Minister content that there are sufficient married quarters in the right places for our military? If not, are we building new ones?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord moves to a specific area on which I do not have information, so I will have to write to him.

Police: Neighbourhood Policing

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Tuesday 23rd July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My noble friend is right. It is worth quoting Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Constabulary, who said:

“In these times of austerity and considerable financial challenges, it is to the credit of the police service that so many forces have shown themselves able to protect the front line and make the necessary savings.”

As I said, crime is down.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness not agree that crime has actually been falling fairly consistently for about the past 14 years? It is a slight conundrum, because one feels that if we had no policemen there would be no crime. Is it not true that there has been this fall?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord is right. Crime has been falling for several years, but I believe that it was his party which suggested that crime would increase, because of the cuts that were necessary. We have clearly proven the Opposition wrong on that count.

UK: Oil Refinery Capacity

Debate between Lord West of Spithead and Baroness Stowell of Beeston

Thursday 21st June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I agree with my noble friend. As I made clear in an earlier answer, the Government are looking not just at the current and immediate situation of Coryton but at our nation’s long-term refining needs—something that we are taking very seriously. So far as I can see, that did not happen in the years just before we came into government.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, has the work that was started under the previous Government on the resilience of fuel supplies—liquid natural gas and ordinary gas supplies—continued, bearing in mind that, for example, LNG supplies to the UK now account for 12 per cent of our energy requirements? That demands an LNG carrier delivering the gas about every two days, and we were working out resilience plans to accommodate such a supply being stopped, with other plants being available. Is that work continuing and, if so, where? It used to form part of the NRA but it seems to have disappeared.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I think I will have to write to the noble Lord on his specific question. However, I repeat my earlier point. At the moment, we have more capacity in this country for refined oil than we need. We are exporting more petrol than we are using, and we are importing more diesel than we are producing. Converting a petrol refinery to a diesel refinery would cost around $1 billion.