Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase 2 Report
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House for repeating this important Statement. Like her, our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and survivors, their friends and families and all the lives that have been irreversibly affected by this terrible tragedy. We will never forget the 72 people who lost their lives that night and, as the report makes clear, need never have lost them.
The publication of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry: Phase 2 Report is a damning indictment of over 30 years of successive state failures—the failure to appreciate, to understand and to act—and we must all take our share of responsibility for that. In this comprehensive report Sir Martin, whose appointment was not universally acclaimed, and his team should be commended. It raises many points that I am confident that all parties and both Houses will agree on. This will be a difficult time for the Grenfell community and a difficult report to process and come to terms with. Will the Government ensure that those affected will get all the support that they need at this time?
When this party was in government, we put an extensive remediation regime in place, financed by central government funding and developer contributions. That work to remediate and identify at-risk buildings must continue in order to prevent another tragedy, and I welcome that assurance. A £600 million fund was put in place to replace unsafe aluminium composite material—the cladding type used on Grenfell Tower. A further £5.1 billion followed through the building safety fund and the cladding safety scheme to pay for remediation beyond ACM cladding.
I am delighted to hear that the new Government will continue supporting leaseholders and tenants to get their buildings fixed as quickly and as safely as possible, and indeed intensify those efforts. Can the noble Baroness the Leader tell the House what the Government’s targets are for remediation work being completed?
Legislation in the last Parliament, as the noble Baroness acknowledged, reformed our fire safety and building regulation regimes through the Fire Safety Act and the Building Safety Act, and created a new building safety regulator and a new building safety regime. There was also change to statutory guidance in Approved Document B to ban combustible construction materials and reduce the threshold for sprinklers in new blocks of flats. It also introduced requirements for evacuation alert systems and secure information boxes.
I agree with the noble Baroness the Leader of the House that further measures will be needed on top of these to ensure that the regimes remain fit for purpose. The inquiry has recommended regular updating of Approved Document B, the appointment of a chief construction adviser, a single regulator and a single responsible Secretary of State. I can assure the noble Baroness that we will work with the Government to support the delivery of any proportionate and necessary measures that follow the report.
Will the Government actually commit, as the report asks, to embedding regular reviews of Approved Document B so that it keeps up with developments in building technology? If the Government agree with the recommendation to appoint a chief construction adviser, can the Leader tell the House when they hope to commence seeking to appoint someone to this position? Will the Government consider, as was proposed to be necessary, machinery of government changes to ensure that there is one lead department responsible for such issues, going forward?
We must confront the failure of oversight by those responsible for ensuring the independence and rigour of testing and compliance. Sir Martin described, as the noble Baroness said, the Building Research Establishment’s work with suppliers as “systematically dishonest behaviour”. No one would wish to jeopardise criminal inquiries—I agree with the noble Baroness—but it would be a euphemism to describe some of the behaviour described in this report as shocking and shameful.
I welcome the Prime Minister’s forthright commitment to continue to support the Metropolitan Police and the CPS in continuing to pursue criminal charges against a small number of developers and contractors who, knowingly and dishonestly, cut corners on building safety for financial gain. We stand foursquare with the Government on that, and I hope that the noble Baroness will understand that we on this side strongly agree that disgraced firms should not benefit from future public procurement.
We all have lessons to learn from this inquiry: that includes the local council and, as the noble Baroness said, the tenant management organisation. The Social Housing (Regulation) Act 2023 was introduced to improve the quality of social housing accommodation, ensure better training and the professionalisation of senior social housing staff, and redress the balance between social landlord and tenant. I am pleased that the report acknowledged the difference that this Act will make for social housing tenants. As a Government, we listened to the Grenfell community throughout the passage of that Bill; noble Lords on all sides of this House played a valuable part in improving and delivering it, and I would like to thank them. When will the Government bring forward secondary legislation to implement the measures included in the Act?
At the time of the fire, my noble friend Lady May of Maidenhead apologised for local and national failures in response to it. I reiterate her apology and repeat my own profound sympathy and apologies to all those affected by the Grenfell fire tragedy. The word “community” is much used—perhaps overused—in some aspects of modern politics. The brave people of Grenfell, in all their diversity, by their courage and support for each other, by their determination to fight for what was right for their fellows and for others in the future, and never to accept a wrong, taught us what a true community is. We honour them. We will never forget all those who died and those whose lives were so brutally changed. We, and the whole House, will stand behind the Government in ensuring that justice is done and that such a horror must never happen again.
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, the central conclusion of this long-awaited report is blunt and devastating. Sir Martin finds that building safety has failed for decades in central government, local government and the construction industry. He says that every single death was avoidable. From these Benches, we say a heartfelt sorry to the victims, their families and their friends.
One of the most shocking threads running through the report is that there has been no sense of responsibility and a lack of questioning inside various government departments, including by Ministers. The report says that the machinery of government and its agencies failed the victims, especially as a result of a lack of interdepartmental working. Fragmentation and a lack of curiosity resulted in inaction, delay and obfuscation, and this cost lives. This criticism also came up in the Infected Blood Inquiry, the Hillsborough report, and the Post Office Horizon report. That is why, from these Benches, we have long advocated for a duty of candour, and we are pleased that the Government have committed to introducing it. Can the Minister say when this legislation will appear?
In the meantime, what changes have been made to ensure that civil servants and public agencies ensure that Ministers are always told the truth, however uncomfortable it may be? Specifically on building safety, can the Minister say what steps the Government are taking to ensure that everyone across government knows who is in charge, and how the current culture can be changed to ensure that no more tragedies like Grenfell can happen again?
The failures of the construction sector—whether regulators, manufacturing companies, builders, maintenance or management agents—are also shocking. The 2018 Hackitt report, with 50 reforms for the sector, was accepted by both Sir Martin and the last Government, in 2019. The key was to strengthen the golden thread of safety running throughout the sector, from manufacturing to regulation and training. When will there be an update to Parliament on the implementations of the Hackitt recommendations? In particular, can the Minister say when she expects the Government to appoint a cladding safety tsar, as proposed by Dame Judith?
At the heart of this report is the evidence of the poor treatment of individuals, especially those already marginalised in our society. Sir Martin speaks of
“a marked lack of respect for human decency and dignity”,
with
“those immediately affected feeling abandoned by authority and utterly helpless”.
These words could also be written about the other inquiry reports, such as those on Windrush and infected blood. This widespread lack of respect challenges all involved in public policy management, whether Ministers, politicians or officials, to change our attitudes. Central government must take a lead in bringing about this change, which requires a fundamental change in mindset. This will take time and commitment, but it is crucially important.
In this case, the tenant management organisation failed badly. Never again should social housing tenants be regarded as not worthy of safe housing. Never again should the vulnerable, especially the elderly and disabled, be regarded as not worthy of safety systems to get them out of burning buildings. In the light of the Dagenham fire two weeks ago, where there were locked exits and problems with the fire alarms, what are the Government doing to ensure that all blocks of flats, regardless of height, have working fire systems without delay?
Seven years on from the Grenfell fire, the delays in the removal of combustible cladding are now a national disgrace. As the noble Lord pointed out, the previous Government committed funds and said that they wanted to knock together the heads of the building firms and freeholders. But clearly more still needs to happen, and urgently. So what will this Government do to speed up the process of making safe the hundreds of blocks that still have inadequate cladding?
It is vital that the police and the CPS move at pace to review the report and investigate the individuals and organisations that Sir Martin says deliberately breached the law. Given the pressures on the police and the CPS, will the Government ensure that there are no further delays because they lack the resources to do the work? Justice further delayed is justice denied, and there have been enough delays already.
The Government have pledged to act on more than 50 recommendations in the report. Despite their initial commitments to move on them all, there is a danger that momentum may not be maintained, as we have seen with the recommendations of the Hackitt report. So can the Leader of the House commit to a full debate in your Lordships’ House in the near future, and then a regular report back to Parliament, so that everybody can feel safe in their homes and those who behaved so appallingly in this case can be held to account?
House of Lords: Composition
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Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
I disagree with the noble Lord on his final point, but I would expect him to make it because he is committed to an elected House. It is interesting that, when the debate was going through the House of Lords a quarter of a century ago, there was concern from a large number of hereditary Peers who were in your Lordships’ House at the time, and in order to smooth the passage of the Bill, arrangements were made that 92 hereditary Peers would remain on a hereditary basis. On that basis, Lord Cranborne was sacked from his job as Leader of the Opposition, and I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, who was put in his place—he was perhaps a beneficiary of that. The noble Lord, Lord Howell, made the point that constitutional reform should be made with care and consideration, and 25 years seems a fair amount of care and consideration.
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, for the avoidance of doubt I should say that I was the one who proposed that we look at the by-election matter. I have repeatedly made clear, both from that Dispatch Box as Leader and since, that I believe the best way forward for this House certainly in areas of constitutional change is by consensus, and not on the basis of divisive and partisan legislation.
There is a further and wider point. It is a courtesy and a duty to Parliament for Ministers to come to Parliament, and certainly to an affected House, to make a Statement on novel legislative matters before they are spewed out in the Guardian, the Times and other media. I do not know whether it was a decision of the noble Baroness that the pre-spin be done in this way; perhaps she was instructed by No. 10 not to make a Statement in this House. However, it was unlike her and not typical, and the misjudgment not to make a Statement in this House did not reflect her normal courtesy. I welcome some of the things that she said, so will she repeat her undertaking to enter into discussions now in the spirit of consensus? My door is open, as is, I am sure, the noble Earl’s.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for his comments on hereditary Peers’ by-elections; both he and the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, have approached me. In terms of constructive debate, I spoke to the Cross-Bench Peers yesterday and I would welcome an invitation to speak to the Conservatives. I do not think the noble Lord can do so as a matter of course, as it is by invitation, so I would welcome an invitation too.
There was a bit of faux anger on his part about a Statement to this House. This issue was in the Labour Party manifesto. During the King’s Speech debate, it was the subject of almost the entire content of the noble Lord’s response to my comments in the constitutional debate. When a Bill is introduced into either House, it is normal for a comment to be made. I wanted to ensure that it was on the record that we welcomed and appreciated the contribution made by hereditary Peers, and that is why it is in the Statement. It is a perfectly normal way of doing things. It did not come as a surprise to the noble Lord. It has been debated in this House on many occasions and I am sure the dialogue will continue.
NATO and European Political Community Meetings
Lord True Excerpts(2 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for repeating this Statement. We on this side share in good wishes for the future of President Biden after his decision to withdraw from November’s election. It was only a fortnight ago that the Prime Minister stressed on what good form President Biden was, so this news was a great surprise to many of us. I hope, as others have said, that Sir Keir did not tell him that he was over 80 and had to go. I also express, on behalf of these Benches, our revulsion at the attempt on the life of President Trump and our delight that this murderous attack failed. We were struck by the great courage that Mr Trump showed. I was pleased that the Prime Minister conveyed our nation’s best wishes to him directly.
We live in a world of hatred running rife, murderous bloody war, the ambition to annihilate whole nations and, as the Statement said so eloquently, actions so heinous that they target women and children, and even glory in it. Against that, what we say may seem trivial, but it cannot help to create the right climate to call a political opponent such as Mr Trump a would-be dictator, a neo-Nazi or even Hitler. I think the people who invaded Normandy in 1944 and liberated Belsen and Auschwitz knew what a racist and a Nazi really was. I think many across the world could do well to look at the civility of discourse in this Chamber. That includes, and must always include—I make this abundantly clear—a respectful response to a maiden speech. I welcome all new noble Lords on the Front Bench opposite.
I was grateful as Leader for the unstinting support from that side of the Chamber for our Government’s unswerving commitment to Ukraine. Prime Minister Johnson was literally in it from the time of the first assault on Kyiv. We unequivocally support the strong words of the Prime Minister and his firm commitment of substantial and enduring resources to the future defence of Ukraine. Russia’s barbaric aggression must be halted and we on this side stand four-square with His Majesty’s Government on that.
We also welcome the Prime Minister’s positive commitment to NATO. For 75 years, NATO has been the most successful defensive alliance in history, and defensive it remains. However, behind some of the rhetoric in this Statement was a troubling fact: this Government have as one of their first acts dropped the previous Government’s funded commitment to raise defence spending to 2.5% of our GDP by 2030. We are told that a clear path may be set out at some time in the future. Can the noble Baroness say when this will happen? Will it come in the Autumn Statement or await the latest strategic review, to be conducted by the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen?
The whole House appreciates the great experience and sound judgment of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson. Can we be assured that this Government, in their enthusiasm for a so-called “reset” with the European Union—we have never been anything other than friendly with our partners in Europe—will not abandon the vital strategic emphasis on our Pacific partnerships through the CPTPP and AUKUS, among other instruments? With China’s threatening posture and North Korea’s support of aggression against Ukraine, it is surely essential that our ties continue to strengthen with this economically expanding part of the world. Will the noble Baroness restate the Government’s unequivocal commitment to the CPTPP and the AUKUS treaty?
There are disturbing reports that the Government may reconsider our commitment to the Tempest fighter project. This, too, is crucial to our ties in the Pacific. Our close ally, Japan, is a partner in the Global Combat Air Programme project. It was sealed by the signing of an international treaty in Tokyo in December 2023. A treaty—pacta sunt servanda. The other major signatory to this treaty was another of our closest allies, Italy. The Prime Minister said in the Statement that he wants to be
“in the room, centre stage”,
so will the noble Baroness assure the House that there can be no question of rushing off into the wings from a treaty on the Tempest project with a close European friend, Italy, and a close ally, Japan? Pacta sunt servanda. Does this principle apply to a Labour Government on a day when we are debating the rule of law?
Already, we have seen this Government unilaterally abrogate a treaty with a friendly Commonwealth ally, Rwanda. Notice of ratification by the UK Government was issued on 23 April. Six weeks later, it was “scrapped” —I think that was the diplomatic word used by a No. 10 spin doctor—with no prior contact with the Government of Rwanda. Pacta sunt servanda. I ask again: does this principle still apply? There is talk of money wasted—and certainly good will has been wasted —but in life, money is wasted not by those investing in a long-term project but by those who pull the plug on it as it comes to fruition.
The Prime Minister spoke of a full-scale crisis of illegal migration. He has unilaterally abrogated the Rwanda treaty. Can the noble Baroness now tell the House what specifically will be done to deter and deal with those individuals who land illegally in large numbers on our shores? What will the Government do with them? The Prime Minister was offered many opportunities to answer this during the election and did not do so. Will the noble Baroness respond to Parliament?
We were pleased that the Prime Minister went through with the EPC summit at Blenheim Palace. He was candid and generous enough to admit that this summit, with its emphasis on illegal migration, was planned—in partnership with the Italian EU presidency—by the previous Conservative Government. Hearing some of the excited spin doctors of the new Government, you would not have thought so—rather that it might have arisen miraculously in two weeks. I pay tribute to the work done by my noble friends Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon and Lord Cameron in preparing this summit. We are glad that it was a success, though it is important never to forget that the only sure anchor of European security is NATO. We must take care never to allow any security pact with the European Union, however desirable it may seem, to undermine that truth.
Finally, the Prime Minister spoke about the situation in the Middle East. We all want to see progress towards a two-state solution where Israelis and Palestinians can live side by side in peace, prosperity and security. However, as we make progress towards that goal, our friend and ally Israel must have the right to defend itself against the threat it is facing, demonstrated by the drone strike on Tel Aviv at the end of last week by the Iranian-allied Houthi rebels.
In conclusion, I assure the noble Baroness that we on these Opposition Benches will work positively with His Majesty’s Government on questions of foreign policy and national security. Of course, we will question and probe—that is the duty of this House—but across this Chamber we will always act in the national interest and work constructively with His Majesty’s Government to ensure the security of our country.
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, I too thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement and begin by saying that we share the Government’s sentiments in their tributes to President Biden.
I welcome this Statement, not least because of its tone. In the last Parliament, we became used to gushing prime ministerial Statements that made grandiose assertions about Britain’s role in the world, which often seemed at odds with reality. Today’s Statement adopts a much more matter-of-fact tone, which seems more in keeping with our global position as a nation. It seems to me that this more realistic degree of national self-awareness is a much sounder basis on which to base our foreign and defence policies.
On the specific issues discussed at the NATO summit, the war in Ukraine remains the biggest threat to European peace and security. We therefore welcome the Government’s ongoing commitment to supporting Ukraine militarily and financially, and in moving towards NATO membership.
Meanwhile, the situation in Gaza goes from bad to worse. We obviously welcome the Government’s commitment to an immediate ceasefire and their practical decision to resume support to UNRWA, but we believe they should go further now by ending arms exports to Israel and recognising a Palestinian state. On the ICJ opinion, we are pleased to hear the Prime Minister’s reiteration of UK support for the work of the court. I therefore hope that the Government will respect all its judgments. We must not get ourselves into the position of supporting the work of the court only when it delivers politically convenient opinions.
The overarching challenge now facing NATO is how Europe should respond to a possible US retreat from its European commitments. That would be an immediate challenge were President Trump to be elected, but in the longer term even Democrat presidents, faced with an increasing preoccupation with China, are likely to give less priority to the defence of Europe. Europe is therefore going to have to stand on its own feet on defence to a greater extent than at any point since World War II, and the sooner we accept this and proactively plan to do so, the better.
That is one reason why we support the strategic defence review. We hope that it will agree with us that a top priority must be to increase the size and operational capability of the Army, and that the previous Government’s so-called tilt to the east was a mistaken attempt to pretend that we had a global military reach—which we simply do not have—and should now be reversed.
The Prime Minister was fortunate in the timing of the European Political Community summit last week, in that it gave him an early opportunity to begin to reset our relationship with our European neighbours, and particularly with the EU. It is a pleasure to be able to agree with the Government that we need to be in the room when the EU discusses security, migration and climate change, but we would welcome any indication from the Leader as to when the Government anticipate that this active participation will start. Has any timetable been agreed?
As the Leader and the House know, while we are pleased that the Government are adopting a more positive tone in respect of the EU, we do not think they are going far or fast enough in building our relationships. It is intensely depressing to me to hear the Prime Minister ruling out freedom of movement and membership of the single market or customs union almost as an article of faith. It is equally depressing that the Government seem unwilling to take smaller steps such as reinstating EU youth exchange arrangements, which are clearly beneficial for the UK and the EU alike.
The Prime Minister says that he is taking a practical rather than an ideological view of our relations with the EU. If that is indeed the case, can the Leader assure us that the Prime Minister will look practically and not ideologically at a further series of steps to restore our European links?
King’s Speech
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Lord True (Con)
My Lords, what a privilege it is to follow the noble Lord, Lord Reid of Cardowan, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hazarika—two absolutely brilliant children of Coatbridge.
The speech from the noble Lord, Lord Reid, was, as ever, brilliant, humorous and direct. When I was at that Dispatch Box and saw him staring with that disarming smile, I knew I was in for big trouble, but I always knew that no political difference would ever stop a friendly drink afterwards in the Bishops’ Bar. That is the true spirit of our House, and may it always be so. I was shocked to find that the noble Lord is 77 years young, and I would hate to see him go at the end of the Parliament—along with 89 of our other friends on the Benches opposite. Seriously, we can ill afford to lose such voices of experience.
The noble Baroness, Lady Hazarika, has already charmed the House by her intelligence and good humour. As many in the House will know, alongside her brilliant public, political and professional broadcasting careers, she has been a successful stand-up comic, which is one of the hardest things to be. Today she certainly proved why—and how much we look forward to hearing from her in both the serious and the humorous vein, which she combines so well.
My last engagement as Lord Privy Seal was the state banquet for the Emperor of Japan. As I sat there listening to him speaking of his late grandfather, I was reminded of the broadcast that the Emperor Hirohito gave in 1945 after the dropping of the atomic bomb. He declared:
“The war situation has developed not necessarily to the advantage of Japan”.
I think I may say that, since that banquet, the political situation has developed not necessarily to the advantage of the Conservative Party. We now find ourselves with a different view to contemplate—although, when I look at the Cross Benches opposite and recall all those repeated ping-pongs and 409 defeats, I wonder whether some up there now may feel themselves in more congenial company, especially if they will not reach 80 by 2029.
I wholeheartedly congratulate the Labour Party on its victory. I particularly congratulate all those on the Front Bench opposite and those who have supported them, who worked so hard in the long, bleak years in opposition. I remember how that was. I also particularly congratulate our new Leader, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon. It was a huge pleasure to work with her in government. I would usually benefit from her candour but I could always rely on her word, and I pledge to your Lordships that, whenever the noble Baroness puts the interests of the whole House first, I will work with her in the same constructive spirit.
When the noble Baroness replies, I hope that she can say something about the balance of what to me looks a very overweight legislative programme. How long will this Session actually be? I trust that ample time will be given to your Lordships to scrutinise these measures. Can she tell us how many Bills will start in this House and which will be the first we receive?
Noble Lords will note that I cannot go on without a kind word about the Liberal Democrats. I congratulate them, too, on their successes, and declare that they are no longer quite so grossly overrepresented in your Lordships’ House. Perhaps now they can leave some of the strain of making quite so many speeches to their eager new colleagues in the other place.
Of course, I welcome elements of the gracious Speech, not least the clear consistency of purpose where we stand together in support of the people of Ukraine. Like the noble Baroness, I welcome the aim to halve violence against women and girls—but surely our aim must be over time to eliminate this vile behaviour for ever. There are inconsistencies in the Speech, which no doubt will be picked out in the debate ahead—for example, the promise of devolution but the taking of more power for central government to dictate building on the green belt.
This good-humoured day will have brought joy to many on the Benches opposite, but there is a serious matter before your Lordships and, as Leader of the Opposition, I must address it. The gracious Speech alluded to one part of the manifesto package that would radically alter your Lordships’ House. There are four elements: removing immediately all the formerly hereditary Peers; removing by 2029 any Peer now aged 75 or more; mandating a new participation requirement; and finally, and only then, considering how your Lordships’ House might be replaced—from half of us out, I guess, to perhaps all of us out at some time, in some way that the party opposite has not managed to figure out in 25 years.
Many of us know that these proposals cannot have been put together by the noble Baroness the Leader of the House. The manifesto says that “we”—that is, the Executive—
“will introduce a new participation requirement”.
Will the noble Baroness tell us precisely what measure of participation for Peers will be planned? If it is by interruption, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, is very safe, as he is top of the list—but it will be interesting to know what is actually wanted.
Then we have the proposed changes to the membership of the House. The Labour Party has a political right to remove former hereditary Peers, but it has a constitutional responsibility to say what follows. It did not do that in 1999 and it still has not done so today. No one inherits a seat in our House any more, and no hereditary Peer has the right by birth to sit and vote in this House. Our hereditary colleagues who remain are not the port-swilling backwoodsmen of ancient legend. They are people we know, some of the most active among us and some of the voices we most respect: the noble Lords, Lord Strathclyde and Lord Vaux, my noble friend Lord Howe, the Convenor of the Cross Benches—I could go on. They are dedicated Front-Benchers on both sides, Deputy Speakers and some of our most assiduous Back-Benchers all around the House. Can we afford their loss?
Then there is the element that, although not mentioned in the gracious Speech, I have alluded to: the proposed ousting of those now aged 75 or more, ejecting a great deal of accumulated wisdom that makes this House different from the other place. Again, that proposal cannot have been concocted here. The figures are stark: ejecting hereditary Peers and those now aged over 75 would remove some 390 Members of this House by 2029, including 107 Cross-Benchers—some 60% of their number would be out. That, in my submission, would be regrettable.
This is a House of consensus, compromise and convention, and I think we can do better. What guarantees that a Government’s programme passes is not numbers; it is convention. I thought it quite wrong that this House defeated the last Government on record numbers of occasions and with record rounds of ping-pong. I never hid that. I thought it wrong under a Conservative Government and I think it would be wrong under a Labour Government. This House has every right—and, indeed, a duty—to engage with Ministers and to ask the other place to think again, but an unelected House must never be a House of opposition. The days of wilful defeats of an elected Government should stop, and while I am Leader of the Opposition I will seek to lead in that responsible tone.
When I was your Leader, I reached across the Chamber, as did the Convenor of the Cross Benches, to offer discussions to strengthen the conventions that guide this House in ways that would both preserve your Lordships’ freedoms and give security to all Governments. That offer remains open. I believe it to be the best course, but convention will be tested, perhaps to destruction, if we plunge down the road to partisan purges and pointless conflicts.
I offer that advice in a spirit of good will and amity, and with no rancour, on a day when I salute the success of the Labour Party and the pleasure that friends opposite, if I may call them that today, take in that victory. But as we go forward, there should be consideration for all the Members of this House and consultation on all Labour’s proposals for this House. There should be a search for consensus and a reinforcement of convention. I ask our Leader, whom we all so respect, to impress on her colleagues who are perhaps less understanding of this course the greater wisdom and the surer efficacy of that way.
Having been serious for a moment, let me say: peace and good will to all. It is an honour and a privilege to have served on that side, to serve on this side and to know you all as fellow workers. I wish godspeed to all in this new Parliament ahead. I beg to move that this debate be adjourned until tomorrow.
Prorogation: His Majesty’s Speech
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The Lord Privy Seal (Lord True) (Con)
My Lords and Members of the House of Commons, by virtue of His Majesty’s Commission which has now been read, we do, in His Majesty’s name, and in obedience to His Majesty’s Commands, prorogue this Parliament to the 31st day of May, to be then there holden, and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Friday, the 31st day of May.
Royal Commission
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The Lord Privy Seal (Lord True) (Con)
My Lords, it not being convenient for His Majesty personally to be present here this day, he has been pleased to cause a Commission under the Great Seal to be prepared for proroguing this present Parliament.
Business of the House
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The Lord Privy Seal
That Standing Order 47 (Amendments on Third Reading) be dispensed with in relation to the Victims and Prisoners Bill.
The Lord Privy Seal (Lord True) (Con)
My Lords, I had intended to perhaps say a couple of words, but after a whole Parliament your Lordships have probably got fed up with me standing up and saying things. This is perhaps the last time that I stand at this Dispatch Box and address your Lordships—in this Parliament. Since it is the end of the Parliament, it would only be fair that I speak, as I may not have another opportunity to do so—in this Parliament, as I said.
It has been a strange Parliament. It did not start in the way many expected. We had one surprising general election result starting this Parliament, so who knows? It did not proceed as anyone expected. We must all acknowledge that it has been an extraordinary Parliament, and your Lordships have retained their customary calm with all the waves and noise going on the other end, which never seem to end. I confess that it has not ended in the way or at the time that most of us expected, but here we are, approaching the end of the Parliament. Tomorrow, we will do the great proceeding of Prorogation, which will take place in this Chamber. How that proceeding is viewed is a matter for personal reflection.
It has been a great and humbling honour for me to have the opportunity to lead your Lordships’ House, which I love with a deep passion. Maybe on another occasion I can express fully the personal feelings I have on this matter, but now I thank your Lordships for the trust and kindness that they have displayed. It is appreciated tremendously.
This is also the occasion to briefly give thanks to so many others. Having started in this House well below the salt, crawling around the floor of the Opposition Whips’ Office, stapling the Whip in the days before email, and ending up standing in this place where Winston Churchill stood during the darkest days of the war, I think I have a sense of the whole greatness of this House. Its greatness rests on everyone who serves it, from those who come in on the dark winter mornings to clean it, those who stand here patiently as we pass by and protect us and care for us, right up to the majestic dignity of our Clerks—with or without their wigs—who sit at the top of our ceremonial tree, and of course the people who cook our grub as well. This is an extraordinary community, which it is a privilege to serve and be part of.
The noble Baroness opposite was very kind in what she said about my noble friend Lord Ahmad and other members of my team. I feel very privileged to have led a team of Ministers and Whips who—whatever noble Lords might have thought of some of the words that have come out of their mouths—I know have always considered it their first duty to serve your Lordships’ House, to respond in engagement and to make sure that our legislation is carried forward in a consensual, understanding and supportive way. I have been honoured to lead those good people, led by my wonderful Deputy Leader, the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the splendid Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms, who created a new uniform never seen in the history of this kingdom—that of a female Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms.
I echo what the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, said; I hope it is a good-humoured general election. When we all come back to this place in response to the Summons of our King, let us all come back, wherever we sit and wherever we go, with the same sense of honour, good humour and dedication that all of your Lordships have shown in the course of this Parliament.
This is a truly remarkable institution. I thank all noble Lords—not just my team, but those who work in the opposition parties and on the Cross Benches, and every single one of your Lordships who comes to this great Chamber and does the business of the British people.
Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)
I am just consulting the Companion; is it not correct, in accordance with paragraph 8.74, that manuscript amendments can be moved on Report?
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, as the House is aware, the noble Lord the Leader, when the words “Liberal Democrat” are mentioned, is normally at his most benevolent. I have found that, during the time in which he has been Leader of your Lordships’ House, that has indeed been the case in his relations with me. I have greatly appreciated that, whatever differences we may have on great issues of state, when it has come to how we manage your Lordships’ House, he has been a model of helpfulness. It is worth reflecting briefly that, in your Lordships’ House, leaders of the parties and the Chief Whips work closely together and try, to the best of our feeble abilities, to ensure that we manage your Lordships’ House in a way that is helpful to Members.
This has been an extraordinary Parliament; what we achieved during Covid was truly remarkable, but it was only because of the history of working together that it was possible in those circumstances. I echo the Leader’s thanks to all those with whom I have worked across parties to try to ensure that, even though differences on issues of state have been very deep indeed, as always, we have been able to manage the way we have dealt with them in a grown-up way and without personal relations suffering, even though we do not always agree. I equally thank my colleagues—my Chief Whip, and Front-Bench and Back-Bench colleagues, who have worked very hard to make the lives of the noble Lord, Lord True, and his colleagues such a misery—very much indeed.
Business of the House
Lord True Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
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The Lord Privy Seal
That Standing Orders 38 (Arrangement of the order paper), 40 (Postponement and advancement of business), 44 (No two stages of a bill to be taken on one day), and 74 (Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments) be suspended until the end of the Session so far as is necessary to allow His Majesty’s Government to arrange business.
The Lord Privy Seal (Lord True)
My Lords, although I agree with all that we have just heard, it had a rather valedictory tone. I must tell the House that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, may well be back—like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
I understand that noble Lords wish me to move the Motions I had set down separately. In moving the first Motion in my name on the Order Paper, it will be useful for the House if I set out how we expect business in your Lordships’ House to work over the next two days.
Following agreement between the Government and the Official Opposition in both Houses, we expect to focus proceedings today on four Bills: consideration of the Commons amendments on the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill; Committee and remaining stages of the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill; Third Reading of the Victims and Prisoners Bill; and the remaining stages of the Media Bill.
The tabling deadline for amendments to the first three Bills has already passed. The deadline for tabling amendments to the Media Bill is noon. Tomorrow we will sit to consider the finance Bill, some Private Members’ Bills and statutory instruments. Members can now sign up to speak at the Second Reading of the finance Bill, and the list for that will close at 4 pm today. If any of the Bills I have listed above are returned from the Commons, we will also consider their amendments or reasons.
We expect the House to be prorogued on Friday—tomorrow—and we will announce any changes to business and the associated deadlines in the usual ways. I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords for their forbearance and understanding in this unusual process, and we will endeavour to keep all Peers fully informed at every stage. I beg to move.
Earl Attlee (Con)
My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend the Leader of the House for explaining what will be happening. I oppose my noble friend’s Motion, but in respect only of Clause 50 of the Media Bill, which seeks to repeal Section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act.
Section 40 is crucial to the system of press regulation proposed by Sir Brian Leveson and has largely been implemented already by a royal charter. This is a highly controversial and important piece of legislation. We know it is important because Owen Meredith, the chief executive of the News Media Association, has been writing about it in the national newspapers. We know it is important because, when I won a Division on a similar amendment to the Data Protection Act a few years ago, national newspapers devoted several whole pages of detailed and unhelpful coverage to noble Lords who had the moral courage to support me in the Lobbies.
The House should not get confused about how few noble Lords are prepared to debate the subject of press regulation. I have had to draw on huge amounts of moral courage to pursue these amendments. Unfortunately, this, combined with the proposed changes to our Code of Conduct, made me simply run out of moral courage on Tuesday. I am sorry to say that I left the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, largely on her own yesterday. I stress that nobody, inside or outside this House, has applied improper pressure to me.
There is simply not the time available to plan and draft a proper Report speech when the Committee amendments were debated only yesterday. For instance, I understand that my noble friend Lord Black made a very interesting speech, but I have not been able to read it. The Government should either drop the relevant clause completely or, better still, accept Amendment 84 from the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins. If they did the latter, they would still meet their manifesto commitments in full. Relaxing the Standing Orders against the wishes of several Members of the House to suit the needs of the usual channels, and some frantic horse-trading down the other end of the Corridor, is not acceptable to me.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, very briefly, in one sentence, I want to broaden the support for the points made about the controversial elements of the Media Bill. The Green Party is also opposed to the Bill in its current form.
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, I am very grateful for the points raised. One understands the strong, sometimes proprietorial, feelings and long-held dreams that different Members of the House have. As the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, this matter has been agreed. It is uncomfortable but, at this time of a Parliament, the raw realities of politics apply, and things can be done only which have the agreement of the Official Opposition and the Government. That is the fact of the matter. As the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, said, it does happen and it has happened, and he has had experience of it on many occasions.
There are many people who will regret that certain Bills are not proceeding—speaking on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, I would have loved to have seen our full programme completed—but what we are proceeding with today is such business as has been agreed. The Media Bill has had examination: it has completed Committee stage, and Report stage—a late stage of the Bill—is today. Members had the longest of all today’s deadlines to table amendments. Discussions on all legislation are continuing, but I would not hold out too much hope for too many changes at this stage.
I appreciate the concerns expressed. Obviously, when a new Parliament meets, it will be able to take whatever view it wishes on whatever matters are put before this House and the other place.
There were an exceptional number of Private Members’ Bills brought forward in your Lordships’ House and the other place this Session. Even with the best will in the world, not every one of those Bills would have made it to the statute book, but some will proceed. I have heard what noble Lords have said today, but, unfortunately, all the hopes that many people may have had, including His Majesty’s Government, will not be fully fulfilled. I must stand by the Motion that I put to the House, the terms of which have been agreed in the usual channels with His Majesty’s Opposition.
Business of the House
Lord True Excerpts(4 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Lord True
That Standing Order 38(4) (so far as it relates to Thursdays) and (5) (Arrangement of the Order Paper) be suspended until the end of the session so far as is necessary to enable notices and orders relating to Public Bills, Measures, Affirmative Instruments and reports from Select Committees of the House to have precedence over other notices and orders on Thursdays.
The Lord Privy Seal (Lord True) (Con)
My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)
Would the Leader of the House be willing to discuss with his colleagues in the usual channels a debate on the ongoing review into the Code of Conduct? As noble Lords will know, the Conduct Committee is conducting a wide-ranging review of the code, and the outcome of its deliberations will affect all Members of this House. It is therefore very important that the committee can hear views from Members from across the House before it concludes its inquiries and reports.
Lord True (Con)
My Lords, many noble Lords might have some sympathy with some of the things the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, said, but I must remind him—we all are conscious of this—that the procedures of the House of Commons are exclusively a matter for that House itself. I am sure that Members of the House of Commons read our Hansard assiduously and will take note of what the noble Lord said.
So far as this House is concerned, we sit on Fridays from time to time, obviously, to take Private Members’ Bills. We will continue this convention until the summer. I can tell the House that we will sit on Friday 14 June, and on 5 and 12 July to take Private Members’ Bills. So far as my noble friend the Captain of the Gentlemen-at-Arms is concerned, we will seek to make progress. I am sure she will be happy to discuss any individual request, but obviously the House of Commons is the guardian of its own procedures.
On the point my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach raised, I am grateful to him for giving me notice that he intended to do so. Other noble Lords have also made views known to me on this subject. The Chief Whip and I have taken the liberty of discussing this with some colleagues in the usual channels and, of course, with my noble friend Lady Manningham-Buller, the chair of the Conduct Committee, in whose work I think I fairly say the House has the fullest confidence and trust.
I am pleased to say that we can enable a debate of the kind that my noble friend asks for on the Code of Conduct review in time for the conclusion of the evidence-taking part of the review, and this will be scheduled for 10 June in Grand Committee. The Motion will be neutrally worded to enable all Members to express their—no doubt varying—views before the evidence-taking period concludes. The purpose must not be to rake over the coals of specific cases but to assist the review and assist Members by enabling discussion of the principles and actualities underlying the Code of Conduct.
Litigation Funding Agreements (Enforceability) Bill [HL]
Lord True Excerpts(5 months, 1 week ago)
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