Inquiries Act 2005 (Select Committee Report)

Lord Trefgarne Excerpts

Thursday 19th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, I had the privilege of being a member of the committee which the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, chaired and I pay tribute to him for his chairmanship and, above all, for his patience, not only with the members, who, no doubt, irritated him from time to time, but, of course, with the response from government departments, which, while not malevolent, was lethargic to say the least. It was disappointing that it was not possible to get more positive observations from the Government, as my noble friend has described. I, too, am looking forward to the valedictory speech of the noble Viscount, Lord Tenby. I am jolly sorry that he has decided to leave the House. I have known him for as many years as he has been here, I think, and will miss him, as we all will, very much.

I agreed with virtually all of the committee’s report and all the conclusions which my noble friend described, but if noble Lords look at paragraph 234, they will see that there is reference to one member of the committee who disagreed on one matter. That one member was me and I shall tell noble Lords where my concerns arose. It related to the representation of witnesses by counsel when they appear before a public inquiry. I spoke from a little experience. I was one of the witnesses before the Scott inquiry, 20-odd years ago now, chaired by the then Sir Richard Scott, who is now, of course, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Scott. That inquiry had a counsel for the inquiry called Presiley Baxendale, who became pretty famous in her time, and who adopted a very confrontational attitude with the witnesses. She was, of course, trying to get the best information she could for the benefit of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Scott, or Sir Richard as he was then, in reaching his conclusions, but she did choose to be very aggressive.

I was, I think, the only witness before that inquiry who was represented by counsel. Most of the witnesses were still civil servants or serving Ministers. I had just left the Government at the time and actually said that I would not appear unless I was represented by counsel because that inquiry did not have the power to summon witnesses by order, so to speak. I was represented by the then Sir Patrick Neill, who is now of course the noble Lord, Lord Neill of Bladen. In fact, I was treated entirely courteously and I hope that my evidence was of some benefit to Sir Richard, as he then was, in reaching his conclusions.

However, some of the witnesses before the Scott inquiry were scarred, as my noble friend has described, by the examination and cross-examination to which they were subjected by Presiley Baxendale. That, I think, is regrettable. By scarring witnesses and treating them in that way, you do not get better evidence. The witnesses are not there to be tried for some offence; they are there to give the best information they can. I believe that Ms Baxendale did not serve the inquiry well by treating some of the witnesses as she did, and who turned out to be permanently scarred. At least one or two of them retired from their work shortly afterwards and, frankly, that was not satisfactory. I must say to the noble and learned Lord, who is sitting in his place, that he should have intervened to stop some of that, and I and the rest of us regret very much that he did not. I believe firmly that that did not improve the evidence he was given and is very much to be regretted.

That is really the main point I want to make. I think that witnesses who are compelled to appear before a public inquiry ought to be entitled to have counsel that is paid for by the inquiry, if they so wish. That would enable them to be protected in a way that some witnesses on other occasions have not been protected, and I hope that it can be further considered on some future occasion.

The inquiry we are now discussing, chaired by my noble friend Lord Shutt, did a good job. I was proud and pleased to be a member of the committee. We were well chaired by the noble Lord, if I may say so, and well served by the officials, led by Michael Collon, who also attended upon us. I am grateful to them for that, and I support the report which has been submitted for your Lordships’ consideration today.