IPP Sentences

Debate between Lord Timpson and Lord Garnier

Monday 15th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

We have 233 IPP prisoners in secure mental health hospitals. From having been to the hospitals and met the individuals, I know that the care that they get from our nursing professionals is exceptional. It is also important that when they come back into the prison system, they have a soft landing and not a hard landing. That is an area that I am working on as we speak. Also important is that when people leave prison, they go to an approved premises. We have a trial going on where we are extending them going there from 12 to 16 weeks but also having a dedicated individual psychologist to support them. That is already having gains now.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

Does the Minister accept that the current recall system for IPP offenders is confused, confusing, overly bureaucratic and irrational, and that it creates injustice and just increases the number of mentally ill people and those without any hope in custody? Would he please accelerate his efforts to mend it?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble and learned Lord for his question, and for the work that he and the noble and learned Lord Thomas have done on this area. It is really important, and the focus has been very helpful. Already, the documents are clearer and more focused. Senior managers now oversee all recall decisions. From 3 November this year, we are extending the post-recall timeframes to improve planning and decision-making. That is thanks to Shirley Debono, who has helped us on that as well. The multidisciplinary progression panels are the way to do this, because we need to make sure that everybody who is in prison on an IPP sentence has hope, engages with the action plan, gets out and stays out.

Prison Capacity

Debate between Lord Timpson and Lord Garnier

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, for her question. Interestingly, this week I have heard of Members of Parliament in the other place complaining about people wanting to build a new prison in their area, and then people also complaining that we are closing prisons in their area.

The circumstances at Dartmoor are exceptional and it is a very unfortunate situation that we are in. We spoke to the Prison Officers’ Association, which I met last week to discuss our plans to support the workforce there. It has been a very successful prison, as I am sure the noble Baroness is aware; it has been very well run and has had very good outcomes. We need to make sure that we retain the talented staff who are there. I have also spoken to the local MP to assure him that we will inform him of everything we know as soon as it happens, and that we will maintain the prison while it is temporarily closed so it will be ready to be reopened if we can.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of the Prison Reform Trust, which is already known to the Minister. Will he accept that it was a great pity that, under the last Labour Government— I was shadow Prisons Minister during part of that time—a large number of prison farms and gardens and equally rehabilitative facilities were closed, allowing prisoners to leave prison unable to get jobs with Timpson and indeed unable to get jobs at all? Will he make it a point that, first, he gets direct access to the Prime Minister on prisons policy—without that, he may drift—and that, secondly, he will reintroduce prison farms and gardens and introduce purposeful activity in our prisons? There are too many prisoners sitting in cramped cells, essentially living in a shared lavatory, when they ought to be getting out, training, reading, writing and learning how to fend for themselves once they have left prison.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I used to see the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, at the other end of a much smaller table when I was chair of the Prison Reform Trust. He sat in the middle on the right. This time he is straight in front of me.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

I am still on the right.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

He is still on the right. In fact, he never sat on the left.

I accept that farms and gardens are very positive in prison environments. In fact, one of the prisons I visited recently is HMP Haverigg, a prison that Prisons Ministers rarely visit at all at the far end of Cumbria. One of my goals in this role is to go and see the prisons that Prisons Ministers have never been to. At Haverigg there is a big focus on gardening and market gardening, which creates not just extra skills but a great nurturing environment for the prisoners there. It is also a source of income, because they have a little shop at the gate. That is something I am a big fan of and I will be ensuring that we do all we can to support that