Leasehold Reform

Lord Stoneham of Droxford Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The Government recognise that the existing statutory requirements do not go far enough to enable leaseholders to identify and challenge those unfair costs. We believe that leaseholders should not be subject to unfair legal costs and should be able to claim them from their landlords, and we are taking action to address that.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

My Lords, in 2020 the Law Commission recommended commonhold ownership as an option. I thought the Minister committed to that in her Answer. Can she tell us how the Government see this proceeding, and is it one of the principal options that the Government are looking at?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The Government are looking at all options but, as the Secretary of State has said on a number of occasions, we are looking at commonhold.

Mobile Homes (Pitch Fees) Bill

Lord Stoneham of Droxford Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 3rd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the House for allowing me to speak in the gap. I associate our group with the objectives of the Bill. Occupants of mobile homes are a very disadvantaged group in many respects. I am familiar with a number of these sites in the Winchester constituency, at Colden Common and Curdridge. I know that they are a very vulnerable group—mainly elderly people who have often missed their opportunity to advance in the housing market. They are now suffering in particular from very high energy costs, because obviously their homes tend to be very poorly insulated. This move to relate the maximum increase to CPI is relevant and should be done quickly in the current circumstances. We are favourable to the objectives of what the Bill seeks to do.

Voter Identification Regulations 2022

Lord Stoneham of Droxford Excerpts

Tuesday 13th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I do not think my noble friend is in his place, but when I next see him, I will ask him.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, mentioned people in poverty finding it more difficult. I remember that discussion and I know that my noble friend Lord True wrote to her. I am afraid I do not know what the outcome was so, again, with apologies, I will write to her about that because I know that it was an important issue for her then.

Digital exclusion is a different thing. Noble Lords would be surprised how many people—even those we consider to be in poverty—have phones. You can go to many libraries in this country and get access online. We also know that it can be done over the phone and by going to your local council. Wherever you can get registered to vote, you can also get your identity. If people are managing to get registered to vote, they can get identity as well. However, I will come back to the noble Baroness on who we are consulting as we go forward.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

If registration is so important—I agree that it is—why did the Government not start this process when they started the campaigns for registration in September, rather than starting it in January?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

If the noble Lord remembers, we had the death of Her Majesty, and that put things back slightly, but we are doing it now, and people register continually, so that issue is not terribly important.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, also brought up the deadline for applying for the certificate. She is right that it has gone to six days before the poll; I remember that we talked about it being the day before. We have been working with stakeholders in the electoral sector. We are mindful of the impact on administrators during a busy period and, on balance, have decided that six days strikes an appropriate balance between accessibility and certainty for not only the elector but the electoral officers.

One noble Lord said that a national insurance number was required, but actually individuals do not need a national insurance number to vote. They will be able to apply using other documents or attestations where they can provide an explanation for why they do not have a national insurance number. Some people have lost it or cannot find it, so there are other ways of doing that to make sure that they can get those documents.

There was quite a lot of talk about putting it back to the next election. After May 2023, there is a possibility that the next election will be a general election. In May 2023, only about two-thirds of authorities will hold polls. That means there will be more opportunity for authorities to learn from and support each other if necessary. If we have a local authority that is not holding an election next to a local authority that is, if it needs extra help in this first period, that is a possibility. The system is not at full stretch, as it always is during a general election. This is not about testing or devaluing local politics. It is a sensible way to run any new process in a system, rather than running it when we are at full capacity.

My noble friend Lady Verma got involved in the Bill; I thank her very much for her support. Again, she is somebody who talks to people on the ground, as we all do, and who has an understanding of how people in all communities feel about the importance of a fair voting system that they can trust.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, raised overseas voters. I will take that back to the department, but if he does not mind, I do not intend to talk about that today. My noble friend Lord Cormack raised identity cards, but I will not get into that debate today either.

Publicity is absolutely critical. I do not think I have talked about this, but once the legislation goes through, we will start this in mid-January, so there will be four to five months of clear publicity. That is important.

I thank my noble friend Lord Hayward. He and the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, are the ones in the House who talk and know the most about elections and associated matters. He is absolutely right about students. They will be home for Easter and, by then, they will have seen the campaign over two to three months. They will get their driving licence or passport, or will go to get the identity documents required. As he said, the launch in January is the launch of the big national campaign, but this has been going on for a long time.

I will look at Hansard, but I think I have answered most of the issues that were raised. I return to the fatal amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. I have already made it clear that we disagree with its substance. We are confident of electoral administrators’ ability to deliver this important policy for the May 2023 elections. We have been working hard alongside them to refine and develop these processes and are at present conducting extensive testing of the digital systems that will support them.

Called-in Planning Decision: West Cumbria

Lord Stoneham of Droxford Excerpts

Thursday 8th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for reading through the Statement. I note that it suggests that any mature and considered response needs to take account of the decision letter and the planning inspector’s report, so I reassure all noble Lords that I have indeed done so.

The Statement stresses that this is not an energy proposal, and that it is not only energy projects that burn fossil fuels or create emissions. Environmentalists warn that the mine will create around 400,000 tonnes of emissions every year. The former Government Chief Scientific Adviser and chair of the Climate Crisis Advisory Group, Sir David King, has labelled the decision as an “incomprehensible act of self-harm”. He said:

“Worldwide, there should be no new venture into coal, oil or gas recovery. This action by a leading developed economy sets exactly the wrong example to the rest of the world.”


Does the Minister agree that, in other words, this trashes the UK’s reputation as a global leader on climate action and looks utterly hypocritical to low-income countries, whose own fossil fuel ambitions we have repeatedly criticised?

The Statement also refers to the Government’s net-zero strategy. The decision letter says that the proposed development would have a neutral effect on climate change and is therefore consistent with government policies for meeting this challenge. Therefore, can the Minister explain exactly how this can be, when the developer has said it will offset emissions with carbon credits, certified by the Gold Standard foundation? Yet, the foundation says that this goes against its core principles, because it is strongly against the extraction of fossil fuels, and that any plans to offset its climate impact should not be used as a reason to grant permission.

The decision letter also says that there is currently a UK and European market for the coal and, although there is no consensus on what future demand in the UK and Europe might be, it is highly likely that a global demand will remain. The business plan for the mine is therefore based on exporting 85% of its coal. Can the Minister explain how that is carbon neutral? Does she acknowledge that the world is in fact moving away from coal? This Government have pledged to end coal-fired power generation by 2024, and many other countries are looking to end the use of coal by 2030. The British steel industry itself has said that it that will not use the coal from this mine because of its sulphur content. Many steel makers in the UK and globally are planning to move away from coal and manufacture steel using technologies such as electric arc furnaces, powered by renewable energy, or through hydrogen direct reduction. Professor Haszeldine, from the University Edinburgh, has said:

“Opening a coal mine in Cumbria is investing in 1850s technology and does not look forward to the 2030s low carbon local energy future.”


More than 80% of the proposed jobs are, I understand, to be in underground coal production. Is this the Government’s aspiration for young people in West Cumbria? As somebody who lives there, I can understand why there is some support in the local area. The reason is that West Cumbria desperately needs jobs. Is the Minister aware that the Conservatives promised a new nuclear power station, and failed to deliver? They promised major investment in West Cumbria’s road and rail infrastructure, and failed to deliver. They promised investment in advanced manufacturing, and failed to deliver.

Granting permission for a coal mine is not going to create the long-term skilled jobs we need. Cabinet minister Gillian Keegan admitted that the coal mine was “not a long-term solution”. Does the Minister believe that this is good enough, when in the decision letter, the Secretary of State agrees that the local area has a compelling need for additional investment and employment opportunity? This Government should invest in small modular reactors and other new nuclear projects in the area; they should invest in renewable energy, electric arc furnaces for green steel production, green hydrogen and sustainable transport. They should support West Cumbria in a prosperous, clean, green future, not turn Britain into the dirty man of Europe. This decision does not offer secure, long-term jobs for West Cumbria and it makes the statement that this Government are giving up on all pretence of climate leadership.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

I endorse the remarks just made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. I agree completely with them so I will not repeat them, but I will make a couple of points.

First, this is not a short-term investment. Anybody opening up a coal mine knows that it has to have a reasonably long-term investment profile and business case. The fact that only 15% of the output will be used in the UK—or at least that is the indication—puts a big question mark over the value of the investment. If it was not as little as that, we would be looking at having to have, presumably, some coking coal process plants to process it. It is not just a question of mining the coal; you have to prepare it for the coking process, and that in itself is not an environmentally pleasant process.

Fundamentally, though, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, said, this is a huge blow to the credibility of a country which is trying to go to a carbon-neutral future. We are trying to lead the world on what we have been doing, but this will question our credibility. The Government have been dragged back by their feet on onshore wind farms. I have to ask: how long will it be before they have to be dragged back by their feet on this terrible decision?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, and the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham of Droxford, for their comments. Before I move on to my further remarks, I must emphasise that this debate surrounds a planning decision made by the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Community, in what is a quasi-judicial process, and that his decision may therefore be subject to legal challenge at a later date. As was stressed earlier in another place, nothing I say this evening should be taken in any way as a substitute for that very full reasoning which is set out in the Secretary of State’s decision letter and in the inspector’s report, both of which were published yesterday.

The contributions raised here today deal with matters which were raised in evidence and considered in huge detail by the public inquiry. They were challenged at that public inquiry and were dealt with in the decision made yesterday by the Secretary of State, who has considered that report very carefully. It is extremely important that all parties reflect on that point, that the decision was based on evidence put forward in a public forum, all of which could be tested by cross-examination of witnesses or by written rebuttals, and that the entire process was overseen by an independent inspector. It is important that today we are talking about an independent inspector’s report that has been clearly looked at for a number of months by the Secretary of State who has made this decision.

Published guidance on planning propriety is clear that decisions may be made only on the basis of evidence and considerations which are relevant to the planning merits of the case, and that planning Ministers must give clear planning reasons to ensure that their decisions are transparent and can clearly be understood by all parties. This means that planning Ministers must not take into account any evidence or considerations which are not relevant to planning, not relevant to the decision, or not before them as part of the evidence in the case. Therefore, I can reassure noble Lords that this decision was not made on the basis of press release, newspaper interviews or by reference to any external considerations which were immaterial to the planning decision at hand.

On the key issues surrounding the climate interests, which I think were of particular interest to both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, the need for coking coal is now, and the economic benefits of the scheme and indeed some other matters not raised in this House this evening are all considered. The bringing together of these issues into a single conclusion on the merits of the scheme was at the heart of yesterday’s decision. That decision was in line—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I will write to the noble Baroness on that last point. If you are exporting something that has been produced in a way which is more environmentally friendly than other coal mines elsewhere in the world, surely that is good. We are currently importing coke. We will not be importing it in the future because we will be producing our own.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

Can the Minister clarify where this coal—the 85%—is going? Is the European single market likely to accept it?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

Yes, it is my understanding that it will be going to Europe.

The inspector’s report also sets out, and the Secretary of State agrees, that the proposed development would have an overall neutral effect on climate change. It is therefore consistent with the government policies for meeting the challenge of climate change, and that was after the independent inspector heard all the evidence and it was challenged.

The noble Baroness also brought up the issue of jobs. These jobs that we are offering are well paid and skilled jobs, in an area of the country that wants well-paid and skilled jobs. From what I have read in the newspapers and heard on the radio, the local community is very pleased to hear that—they want these skilled jobs. I think that 500-plus jobs is important for that area, but the noble Baroness knows that area better than me.

Social Housing Standards

Lord Stoneham of Droxford Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement from the other place. I am sure we all agree with Secretary of State Michael Gove that Awaab Ishak’s death, after months of living in a mouldy home, is an unacceptable tragedy, so we support the Government in bringing forward legislation to ensure that housing associations responsible for social housing are held to account. Yet I also draw attention to the Housing Ombudsman, who has recently drawn attention to “a dramatic increase” in cases of damp and mould. Last month, it issued a special report on Clarion Housing in which it says:

“The landlord’s approach was often inconsistent, which seriously impacted residents. It did not have a sufficiently robust and detailed policy in place, and the policy aims that it did have were not met in practice.”


It says that recurring themes included

“a failure to accurately diagnose the cause of damp within a reasonable timeframe, poor communication with residents, and failures to update residents on inspection findings and the actions to be taken.”

So, sadly, this case is not an isolated one. This attitude by housing associations is clearly unacceptable and must be tackled urgently.

I have a number of questions for the Minister on these issues. New regulation is clearly important and welcome, but there is also a funding crisis for local authorities, which need to invest in their social housing stock, and this will be a roadblock to improvement if not addressed. What are the Government doing to support investment in social housing, and the monitoring of standards and enforcement? Every year, £38 million is spent on treating damp and mouldy homes. With energy bills shooting up, this winter will likely lead to a further spike in mould problems. Damp is also more likely in homes that are excessively cold and more expensive to heat. Will the Minister confirm what steps the Government are taking to retrofit and insulate older social housing stock? Will she commit to sufficient new resources being allocated to the regulator to allow it to effectively perform its inspection role and any new duties that will arise from the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill?

While this Statement mainly focuses on social housing, there are equivalent concerns about private rented properties. One in four private renters is living in fuel poverty. Generation Rent research has found that, for every three serious hazards that councils identify in private rented homes, local government inspectors issue just one formal enforcement notice. The majority of tenants are simply not being protected.

The Government have said they will apply the decent homes standard to the private rented sector, which we strongly support. The consultation on this closed on 14 October, so can the Minister tell your Lordships when the results of the consultation will be published and when we are likely to see the long-promised renters reform Bill? Will she confirm that the Government will commit to the abolition of Section 21 to give tenants greater confidence to complain about unsafe conditions, to ensure minimum standards and landlord registration so that landlords are truly accountable for the properties they let out, and to give stronger powers to councils to take action against landlords who break the law?

When a local authority has a selective licensing scheme, it is more proactive in enforcement. However, it concerns us that the Government seem to be taking a very cautious approach to these schemes. Can the Minister explain why, when they clearly seem to be having a positive impact on standards?

Finally, I draw attention to the Statement’s very welcome recognition of the serious matter regarding the way in which the housing association behaved towards the family. As the Statement says, their lawyer said that racism and cultural prejudice played a role in their treatment and the handling of their complaints, which is clearly disgraceful. Recent government statistics show that white British households were less likely to live in damp conditions than other ethnic groups: while the figure for white British households is 3%, mixed white and black Caribbean is 13%, Bangladeshi is 10%, black African 9% and Pakistani 8%. I am sure the Minister recognises that this is a serious matter. Does she agree that this is a clear problem of inequality that must be addressed and that these complaints about racism must be thoroughly investigated?

We are pleased that the Government refer to support for this. It is the response we need, but we also need action. We expect the Government to stick to their promise that they will act immediately.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. I am standing in for my noble friend Lady Pinnock, who cannot be here tonight; I have 15 years of experience in chairing a housing association, so I hope that I can contribute some constructive points.

This Statement follows a personal tragedy for the Ishak family in Rochdale. We should convey our sympathy and support for them, but the best thing we can do is reduce the possibility of this happening again. However, in my experience, social housing is not easy or straightforward, but complex. Some of the housing stock is far from up to standard, some tenants have very complex social needs and investment in this sector is switched on and off with each change of government, which also has further implications. The regulation regime and regulators also change frequently—three times during my 15 years—which means a loss of experience and knowledge of housing associations and a weaker regulator as a result.

Sadly, one of the problems is that too many tenants in social housing feel a lack of respect. They are demoralised. Anyone who has canvassed such housing knows that one of the biggest problems is getting them to vote, with the consequence that they do not get the all-round, cross-party political attention that they should.

I will make three points relevant to this case. First, maintenance is always a variable expenditure, depending on the state of finances of housing associations. It is easily switched off and the consequences follow much later. This is why, in looking at the funding of social housing, the Government need to look at not just new development and building, which is already inadequate, but at what is being invested in improving and maintaining the stock. I always had to fight in the housing associations that I chaired; investing in development is attractive but the stock is the most important thing, because the tenants are often paying for the new developments through their rents and therefore they need improvements too. That must always be respected by housing associations and the Government.

Complacency culture is a problem. There are some fantastic people working in the housing sector, to whom we should give respect, but there are a minority of housing associations and managers who are inadequate. It is too easy for the bad associations to run themselves for the convenience of staff and not tenants. In every housing association I have been involved in, whether you like it or not, you have to fight to make people think that it is simply not good enough to say, “This is good enough for them.” You need higher standards than that. Tenants need to be at the forefront and have respect.

Finally, we always need to learn from mistakes and seek to improve, but there is a danger with blame culture. It is very easily politically to say, as the Statement does,

“The time for empty promises of improvement is over, and my department is now naming and shaming those who have been found by the regulator to have breached consumer standards”.


I agree that we should expose that, but we also need to be aware of the unintended consequences. If that stops an openness and a willingness of people to admit mistakes, we will have a worse situation.

It is important to ask why the Regulator of Social Housing, after two years of this case, is only now considering whether the Rochdale association is up to scratch. Where has it been? Did the housing association in Rochdale alert the regulator at an early stage that it had a severe problem, and what has it done over the past two years to address these issues? That seems pretty important. I accept that naming and shaming has a role, but not if it leads an organisation to cover up and disguise mistakes. I give the example of the airline industry: we would never be where we are in the airline industry if we spent all our time naming and shaming rather than trying to deal with mistakes and errors and improve the safety record.

So I would like to end with three questions to the Minister. First, is there enough social housing stock in the system to allow housing associations to move people where improvements are needed on the existing stock? I would identify that as almost certainly a major problem that needs addressing. Secondly, are the Government happy with the speed of the Social Housing Regulator in intervening in this case? Did it wait until the end of this case before it intervened? Surely it should have been involved at a much earlier stage, and somebody, if they were running a housing association, should have alerted the housing regulator to the problem. If the Manchester Evening News was involved, I cannot believe that it was not in contact with the regulator—so what has it been doing over the last few months such that we are now waiting for it to make its judgement?

Thirdly, will there be much more attention paid by the Government to improving our housing stock in all sectors, rented and owner occupation, to phase out outdated housing? Surely, we need to do this as part of the insulation programme, but it is fundamental to the problem that we are talking about today that not enough attention has been placed on improving existing housing stock.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I can hear the passion from both noble Lords opposite and I think it is completely appropriate. I wish to add my voice to those who have shone a light on the failings of the housing association, although I understand that the blame culture does not always work; you always have to have with it the support to do better. I have a huge amount of respect for the regulator, and when the regulator has the new duties when the Bill goes through, I am sure that they will do the shaming, if necessary, but they will also do the supporting where necessary as well.

We cannot allow families such as Awaab’s to live in housing that is not fit for human habitation, where there are clear signs of neglect, damp, and mould, and where the family fears for the children’s health. Living in a decent home is a right, and the Secretary of State has been quite clear that the Government will not rest until every single household feels safe in their home. Addressing a number of things that have been brought up, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, quite rightly talked about the issues of the Housing Ombudsman. I do think that this is the way forward for individuals, the way forward for the regulator to get to know issues that are becoming systemic in any area, and the way forward for individual issues to be dealt with in a very timely manner. But we do need—the Secretary of State mentioned this in his Statement—to get out to the tenants to tell them how to do this, and that needs to be done sensitively, because having English as a second language can be a barrier to that, as can other things. We need to make sure that we are doing everything we can, and the Secretary of State said that we are going to go into another country-wide communications project on this—the ombudsman is part of the key to making sure that this does not happen again.

Both the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, and the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, mentioned building. We know that there is, I believe, £11.5 billion in the affordable housing building fund, and some of that is for social housing. But I say to the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, that there is never enough housing stock to do what we really want to do. This has not just been the case recently; it has always been a challenge, and it is a challenge that you have heard the Secretary of State say that he is up to delivering. We just have to keep going with building the necessary housing stock in this sector that is required.

Energy—once again from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock—is always something she challenges the Government on, and quite rightly. As I have mentioned before, there is a government programme of support and money available to retrofit all housing stock, and we also have to remember that the social housing sector is the most energy efficient sector in the country—but we cannot be complacent, and we need to move on this as well.

On private rented sector properties, I have not got the timeline yet, but the review has been done and we are working on getting that through, because it is important. This was not a private rented sector house or flat, but we do know that these issues are just as difficult and complex in the private sector as they are in the social sector. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, that I think there is an issue about culture in the housing sector as a whole, and I am hoping that the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill will start to change that culture. That was something that we brought out very early on when we announced the Bill—the fact that we wanted a cultural change within the sector. That is extremely important. I have been involved in the sector a little bit—not as much as some noble Lords, but I have—and there is a cultural issue that does need changing. The regulator knows that, and will spend time working with the sector to change that culture.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stoneham, on maintenance and stock improvement, and I will take that back to make sure that we are encouraging all social landlords to make sure that the maintenance is agreed. I know from the local authorities delivering social housing that this is something that is always important to them; certainly, when I was involved, we had planned maintenance—it was good planned maintenance, and the money was there to do that. But there is always a bit of a pull and push on this—whether it goes into maintenance or new properties—and that is an issue too.

I will look at Hansard and, if I have not answered all noble Lords’ questions, I will, as always, write. But what is important to me is that we continue to have a discussion, all of us, in this House, because this House has many of the answers and challenges us all. To any Peer—there are not many of us here—who wants to contact me following the debate to discuss this matter further, I say that my door is open, because it is an important matter and I want to discuss it. It is important that all of us. There is expertise and experience in this House, and I can see that there are noble Lords who know quite a lot about this sector with us today. We need to use that to ensure that nobody has to deal with what Awaab’s family faced ever again.

Before I sit down, I just want to say that our thoughts and prayers are with Awaab’s family through what must have been the most horrendous time—something that obviously they will never forget, and let us hope that we never forget it either.

Fire Safety Bill

Lord Stoneham of Droxford Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, while the headlines are all focusing on the scandal of who paid for the internal refurbishment work on a flat in No. 10, for me this is a far greater scandal about who is being forced to pay for the external remediation works on more than a million flats caught up in this fire safety cladding debacle. As things stand, innocent leaseholders—the only party with no hint of blame for negligence or mistakes—are the sole group to shoulder the burden. We have heard some passionate speeches about that.

Why am I back here? I just need some reassurances from the Government. They say that this is not a legislative matter and that this is not the legislation, so what are they going to do? Many of us united here usually disagree. My goodness, the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, and I are on the same side. Whatever is the matter? But we are here in good faith. This is not Tory-bashing or a cheap dig at rich developers or landowners—it is a warning to the Government.

This reminds me of the convictions of the 39 post- masters, now cleared, but after the tragedy of what befell them because no one would listen. It also feels to me like a betrayal of all those promises made to the red wall voters that this Government care about the aspirations of ordinary people. It seems to make a mockery of parliamentary priorities, and I genuinely do not understand the point of us being here and debating levelling up when many leaseholders concerned bought their flats or houses as part of affordable housing schemes. They are front-line workers who have been thrown to the wolves.

Similarly, what is the point of legislating on the welfare of veterans and supporting the police when one veteran and serving police officer writes to me explaining that he has worked every day since he was 16 and has never needed to rely on state benefit or accrued debts in any way, yet now faces bankruptcy and could even, as a bankrupt, lose his job. He describes it as a living nightmare. He says: “I am a leaseholder, and that is the biggest mistake of my life.” What a terrible thing to say. He says he is disillusioned, angry and frustrated, and powerfully notes that he feels defeated and that all his attempts to be heard are ignored.

These leaseholders feel ignored. Whatever happens here today, I ask the Government to listen and not to ignore them. At the very least, I ask the Minister to listen to the Bank of England. As the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, noted, last week the Bank of England said it is seriously assessing whether the building safety scandal could cause a new financial crisis—hardly an encouraging sign for building back better or economic growth.

Even from a pragmatic basis, I do not understand why the Government will not note that if more than a million properties become unmortgageable, if we create a negative equity problem, if leaseholders become bankrupt and cannot pay for remediation costs, if there is a knock-on effect on property values, if there is an effect on labour market mobility because people are unable to sell their homes, are trapped and have to stay where they are, surely this is a matter that the Government, even the Treasury, might look at. We look to the Government here because only they can provide the capital up front to pay for the works now.

The Commons reason for rejecting the amendment is that

“the issue of remediation costs is too complex to be dealt with in the manner proposed.”

I just want to know what manner is actually proposed. The plan from the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, seems sensible to me. I would like to hear the Government’s.

I do agree that there are no easy solutions. That is why it is too easy for the Government to boast of generous loan funds and grant schemes when people are ineligible to apply for them and are facing huge bills now. Although it is tempting, it would be too easy to blame developers or whatever, and that is not my intention—I just do not want the blameless to pay.

It is also too easy to use the Grenfell tragedy to imply that those of us supporting the leaseholders or backing these amendments are cavalier in any way about fire safety standards. As a leaseholder, I assure noble Lords that I am not cavalier about my own safety. But I do note that today the Grenfell United campaign has issued a statement saying:

“Using Grenfell Recommendations to justify government’s indifference is deeply upsetting for us”.


As victims of the Grenfell fire, they say that they stand in solidarity with innocent leaseholders.

I know that the Bill is good and full of good intentions, but it creates liabilities for leaseholders without giving them any means of redress and, more broadly, it betrays any commitment to a meritocratic society. I appeal to the Government to listen.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

We have had some very good speeches and some very good points have been made, so I will speak quite briefly. First, I declare my own interests in property and as someone with 15 years’ experience of housing association work. I am speaking tonight largely on behalf of my noble friend Lord Newby, who has been tied up in commission work for most of the afternoon.

Looking back at last week’s debate, at the Minister’s speech and at the debate in the Commons this afternoon, I thought there was far too much emphasis on fear of the Bill not going through rather than on trying to set out and address the concerns not only of both Houses but of leaseholders, who have the uncertainty and the fear of liability. Simple fear is prevailing, and that is what we need to address. It is why the Government are in some difficulty in getting final decisions on the Bill.

Let us not forget that a lot of the leaseholders affected by these problems are first-time buyers. Developers made a lot of money out of government deals. The Government have been very keen on first-time buyer schemes and stamp duty relief. Why is it that they are so reticent to spell out more detail and give more assurance to leaseholders in the problems that they are facing? The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, was absolutely right: the Government are very keen on plans in all sorts of areas, but they really need a plan to deal with this problem.

In just one area, pooled insurance, there is great fear of the costs for leaseholders from their insurance going up because of the problems that they are facing and the extra risk that the insurance companies assess. The Government responded very quickly when there were pictures of people with their homes flooded and residents trying to deal with their problems in specific geographical areas, and they very quickly came up with pooled insurance schemes. Why are they not doing that more in this area? These leaseholders are a very specific group and they need help.

All evidence and experience suggest that the problem will grow. We have evidence in our own ranks of a Peer whose block of flats had a cladding problem: when the cladding was taken down, the block was found to be unsafe structurally. This is a growing problem. What lies behind the cladding, I suspect, is what is scaring the Treasury rigid. However, the problem has to be dealt with.

I am afraid that a lot of these properties were designed and built for first-time buyers. The developers knew they had to keep the price down when prices were escalating, but they also kept the costs down because they wanted to make their profit. They made a lot of money, so there will be all sorts of problems in these buildings.

The leaseholders will have seen the situation last week of the sub-postmasters and will be thinking that, as time goes on, they will be left behind and hung out to dry by the bureaucracy and the government machine failing to address their problems. They need protection from eviction, and they need to know exactly how they are going to be able to access grants.

They need to see the Government putting pressure on the developers. In some respects, the Government are a bit too close to some of those developers, but they need to be seen to be taking on the developers, the companies and the contractors involved in these buildings to make sure that it never happens again.

The industry is in fact dysfunctional. It is going to demand government intervention to address skills, regulation and the whole quality of development in this country. The Government need a plan and a timescale. They need to address the uncertainty and fear among very vulnerable people, and they need to start now as the problem will grow. That is why we support these amendments.