Financial Services Bill

Lord Sikka Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 10th March 2021 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Sikka]

107: After Clause 40, insert the following new Clause—
“FCA duty to make a statement about ministerial directions on investigations
(1) The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 is amended as follows.(2) After section 1T (right to obtain documents and information) insert—“1U Duty to make a statement about ministerial directions on investigationsWhere a Minister directs, comments on, or intervenes with an FCA investigation into wrongdoing or malpractice by a company, the FCA must make a public statement about the nature of any such intervention.””

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, Amendment 107 seeks transparency about ministerial interventions in regulatory investigations, by requiring the FCA to make a statement. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for her support. Currently, ministerial interventions are made in secret, and neither Parliament nor the people are able to call Ministers to account. Ministers intervene to stymie investigations, and the trail is often carefully concealed. Some years later, a few interventions do become visible.

Consider the case of HSBC, a bank supervised by UK regulators, implicated in global money laundering and protected by UK Ministers and regulators. In July 2012, the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations published a report entitled U.S. Vulnerabilities to Money Laundering, Drugs, and Terrorist Financing: HSBC Case History, which documented the fact that, despite evidence, HSBC staff knowingly laundered money for criminals and engaged in sanctions-busting.

In December 2012, HSBC was fined $1.9 billion by the US authorities—the biggest fine at that time. The US Department of Justice said that HSBC permitted

“narcotics traffickers and others to launder hundreds of millions of dollars through HSBC subsidiaries, and to facilitate hundreds of millions more in transactions with sanctioned countries”.

It added that HSBC had

“accepted responsibility for its criminal conduct and that of its employees.”

However, HSBC was not prosecuted, and instead entered into a deferred prosecution agreement until 2017. The levying of the largest ever fine on a UK bank and admission of “criminal conduct” did not prompt an investigation of HSBC’s practices in the UK. Did the bank engage in similar practices here?

In March 2013, the US House of Representatives Committee on Financial Services began a review of the US Department of Justice’s decision not to prosecute HSBC or any of its employees or executives for criminal activities. The committee’s July 2016 report, Too Big to Jail, showed that the Governor of the Bank of England, the chief executive of the Financial Services Authority and Chancellor George Osborne intervened to protect HSBC. The report contained a two-page letter, dated 10 September 2012, from the Chancellor to Ben Bernanke, chairman of the US Federal Reserve. It urged the US to go easy on HSBC, as it was too big to fail. The US report reproduced some correspondence showing the determination of the UK Government and regulators to protect a bank that had, by its own admission, engaged in “criminal conduct”.

The FSA, Bank of England and Chancellor also urged the US to go easy on Standard Chartered Bank, which was fined $670 million for money laundering, sanctions busting and falsification of records. Its deception was aided by Deloitte. The US Treasury court documents referred to the bank as a “rogue institution”. No statement was made at that time to the UK Parliament to explain regulatory silence or the Chancellor’s interventions. How do we improve banking regulation or hold anyone to account for nefarious practices when Ministers and regulators collude to protect wrongdoers?

I shall return to some questions after my next illustration. It relates to the July 1991 closure of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International. It was the site of the biggest banking fraud of the 20th century. BCCI was supervised by the Bank of England and was closed only after investigations in the US. The UK closure was followed by a few prosecutions and some parliamentary committee hearings. However, unlike previous bank collapses in the 1970s and 1980s, or even subsequent ones such as Barings in the 1990s, there has been no independent forensic investigation and key documents continue to be suppressed to this day.

On 19 July 1991, the Government appointed Lord Justice Bingham to examine some aspects of the Bank of England’s supervision of BCCI. The Prime Minister John Major told Parliament:

“The conclusions of the inquiry will be made public.”—[Official Report, Commons, 22/7/1991; col. 755.]


The Bingham report was published on 22 October 1992 and was highly critical of the Bank of England’s failures. However, it was published without the supporting appendices containing extracts from a document codenamed the “Sandstorm report”, which provided information about some of the frauds and named some of the parties involved in them.

Meanwhile, the US Senate Foreign Affairs Committee investigated BCCI frauds and, in December 1992, published a report titled The BCCI Affair, which said that

“BCCI’s British auditors, Abu Dhabi owners, and British regulators, had now become BCCI’s partners, not in crime, but in cover-up.”

The US Senate committee secured a censored version of the Sandstorm report from the Federal Reserve, which had obtained it from the Bank of England. The committee also secured an uncensored version and said that it

“revealed criminality on an even wider scale than that set forth in the censored version.”

The committee also had access to CIA files on BCCI, which have been made public. Despite this, the Sandstorm report remains suppressed in the UK.

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[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 107 would require the FCA to make a public statement on the nature of any intervention a Minister may make into an FCA investigation into an individual firm.

The current legislative framework established the FCA as an independent, non-governmental body responsible for regulating and supervising the financial services industry. I listened with great care to the noble Lord, Lord Sikka but, with respect to him, and without belittling the value of lessons from history, the examples of investigations that he cited are ones that are unrelated to investigations carried out by the Financial Conduct Authority. That is a key point because, although the Treasury sets the legal framework for the regulation of financial services, it has strictly limited powers in relation to the FCA.

The Treasury is the FCA’s sponsor in government but, in view of the regulator’s independence, it is not appropriate for the Treasury or Ministers to seek to intervene in individual cases. In particular, the Treasury has no general power of direction over the FCA. I will write to the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, on the content of the Ministerial Code, but I am not aware of any loopholes in the code that would permit the kind of conduct that has been talked about.

We are talking here about an independent organisation. The independence of the FCA is vital to its role. Its credibility, authority and value to consumers would be undermined if it were possible for the Government to intervene in its decision-making. I realise that the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, has some mistrust of Government Ministers, but I hope that that fact is of at least some reassurance to her.

That is not to say that the FCA is not accountable for its actions when investigating potential wrongdoing or malpractice by firms because, equally, the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, should be reassured that the FCA is governed by the framework of duties set out in legislation by Parliament. It would be unlawful for it to act outside this framework in order to further vested interests. The decisions of the FCA can be subject to judicial review and, under legislation, the FCA must maintain arrangements for the investigation of complaints.

In the event of a significant failure to secure an appropriate degree of protection for consumers, where those events might not have occurred but for a serious failure in the regulatory system, Section 73 of the Financial Services Act 2012 imposes a duty on the FCA to investigate. Situations can arise in which the Government determine that it is appropriate to intervene. In such situations, the relevant legislation—Section 77 of FSMA —provides a mechanism for the Treasury to direct the FCA to conduct an investigation where it suspects that there may have been regulatory failure.

Under Section 77, the Treasury can require the regulators to conduct an investigation into relevant events where the Treasury considers there to be a public interest. In addition, Section 77 investigations can consider aspects outside the regulatory system as established by FSMA, allowing a comprehensive review to be undertaken in the public interest. However, it is important to note that a Minister cannot use a Section 77 direction to do anything else at all, or to stop the FCA doing anything else.

The most recent example of Section 77 in action was in relation to the regulation of London Capital & Finance, when the Economic Secretary to the Treasury laid a direction before Parliament on 23 May 2019, and formally directed the FCA to launch an independent investigation. The direction was public and transparent, as we would always expect to be the case. The report was laid before Parliament on 17 December 2020.

I hope that this has clarified the legal underpinning of the FCA’s independence, and the very limited powers that Ministers and the Treasury have in this area. I hope that what I have said has reassured the noble Lord that appropriate legislation is in place, and that he is content to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions, but somewhat disappointed by the Minister’s response. The examples I gave—if I had time, I could add another dozen—all inevitably relate to the past, when, despite government efforts, things have come to public attention. At no point have Ministers ever volunteered information or made statements that they have stymied investigations.

In the parliamentary debate on the Banking Act 1987, which formally made the Bank of England the supervisor of banks, Ministers claimed that the Bank would be an independent regulator. Then we discovered that there was a whole process of cover-up—the BCCI case, for example. When the Bank of England ceased to be an independent regulator, the next one, the Financial Services Authority, came in. Again, it was claimed that that was independent. Well, under ministerial pressure, it did not intervene. It did not investigate HSBC’s misdemeanours in the UK, and indeed it was a party to cover-up in the US. The US House of Representatives committee report contains some correspondence showing how the Bank of England, the FSA and the Chancellor were pressuring the officials there to go easy on HSBC. The idea that somehow the FCA is some brand new version of independence which we ought to believe simply neglects what has happened in the past, and that is not really very helpful. Of course, Ministers can allay all public fears by simply saying, “Yes, we will embrace independence.” What is wrong with that?

I have visited the US on many occasions. I have met many academics, regulators and businesspeople, and I always ask them two questions when I deliver a seminar or after a meeting. The first question I ask is, “If you could commit financial crime, where would you like to commit it?” The response is always, “The US, because there is a lot of money to be made.” The next question I ask is, “If you are caught, where would you like to be prosecuted?” At that point, laughter sets in and they all say, “The UK.” Indeed, this country has become kind of a standing joke in regulatory circles. If I were referring to any other country and explaining how Ministers and regulators have colluded to protect organisations which, by their own admission, engage in criminal conduct, many Members of the House would say, “Well, that country is corrupt” or “It is a banana republic”. But I find it surprising that the ministerial response is basically “Well, we are good, and we don’t really need to take account of any of these events.” That is really the tip of a corrosive iceberg, because this corruption goes very deep.

I have asked Ministers a number of times to comment on the public statement of Anthony Stansfeld—the Thames Valley police and crime commissioner—that there is a “cover-up” at Cabinet level of the HBOS and RBS frauds. It is interesting that no Minister has denied it, and no Minister has confirmed it. I have quoted a statement from a very senior law enforcement officer—what could be a greater indictment of the UK’s regulation?

Finally, could the Minister please tell us why the Sandstorm report, which is sitting in 1,300 US libraries, is still a state secret in this country after 30 years? I do not know if it is appropriate for him to reply but I would not be opposed to that.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Does the Minister wish to respond?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Can I confirm with the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, that he does not wish to press his amendment?

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

I will withdraw the amendment for the time being.

Amendment 107 withdrawn.

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Moved by

[Lord Sikka]

120: After Clause 40, insert the following new Clause—
“Supervisory Board
(1) There is to be a Supervisory Board to perform the function of monitoring the FCA and PRA.(2) The Supervisory Board must consist entirely of stakeholders.(3) Recruitment for the membership of the Supervisory Board is to be conducted through open competition and the appointments are to be confirmed by the House of Commons Treasury Committee, or another relevant House of Commons Select Committee. (4) The Chancellor of the Exchequer may nominate individuals to the Supervisory Board.(5) The following are ineligible for appointment to the Supervisory Board—(a) current and past employees of the FCA and the PRA, and(b) current employees of organisations supervised by the FCA and the PRA.(6) A member’s membership of the Supervisory Board cannot exceed a period of five years beginning with the day the member’s appointment is confirmed under subsection (3).(7) The Supervisory Board has no responsibility for—(a) the day-to-day operations of the FCA or the PRA, and(b) investigations and enforcement of the rules devised by the FCA and the PRA.(8) The Supervisory Board’s functions are to—(a) provide strategic oversight of the Executive Boards of the FCA and PRA responsible for day-to-day operations;(b) inquire into the adequacy of resources used and available to the FCA and the PRA;(c) seek explanations from the Executive Board for reasons for the delay in launching and completing investigations; and(d) seek explanations from the Executive Board in relation to the efficiency and effectiveness of the FCA and the PRA in discharging their statutory duties.(9) The Supervisory Board shall have powers to—(a) demand explanations from the Executive Board on any matter affecting the protection of consumers from harmful practices;(b) secure information from the Executive Board about their transparency and accountability to the public; and(c) liaise with whistle-blowers and examine FCA and PRA policies for protecting and rewarding whistle-blowers.(10) The Supervisory Board must hold open meetings with the Executive Boards of the FCA and the PRA at least once every three months.(11) The working and background papers of the Supervisory Board must be made publicly available.(12) The Supervisory Board must lay before each House of Parliament an annual report highlighting matters of concern relating to the operation of the FCA and PRA which it has discovered in exercising its powers and functions.(13) The Supervisory Board must be consulted on appointment and reappointment of the Chief Executives of the FCA and the PRA.”Member’s explanatory statement
This new Clause would create a Supervisory Board to monitor the Executive Boards of the FCA and PRA and provide a diversity of views on the conduct of the FCA and the PRA.

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, Amendment 120 seeks to strengthen regulation by empowering stakeholders to watch over the conduct of the executive boards of the FCA and the PRA, so that stakeholder interests do not continue to be marginalised.

Throughout the passage of the Bill in this House and the other place, considerable concern has been expressed about regulatory failures. In particular, the noble Baronesses, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle and Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, and the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, drew attention to the well-known problem of regulatory capture.

Regulatory bodies such as the FCA and the PRA are too close to the interests of the finance industry, often at the expense of broader social interests. The revolving doors swing both ways as regulators come from the industry and, after a stint, they return to the industry. The regulatory capture has inflicted misery on millions, as shown by numerous scandals. There is no resolution of the HBOS and RBS frauds, there is dithering on mini-bonds, the London Capital & Finance and Connaught scandals testify to regulatory failures, the FCA was absent in the Carillion scandal, puny sanctions for mis-selling numerous financial products have not really changed corporate culture, and there has been little success in curbing tax avoidance, money laundering, and interest rate and exchange rate rigging. Indeed, there is a long history of regulators doing the bidding of the industry; my earlier interventions referred to the regulatory sympathies for HSBC, Standard Chartered bank and BCCI even though they were involved in anti-social and criminal activities.

Regulatory capture is built into the system as individuals close to the industry occupy senior decision-making positions as executive and non-executive directors. Ministers and others often argue that individuals of particular experience are needed. The focus on technical expertise inevitably privileges industry insiders and marginalises the experience of the people who are actually practised upon, who remain relatively invisible. These experienced people rarely blow the whistle on corrupt practices or check the groupthink that has become all too prevalent in regulatory bodies.

In theory, non-executive directors are expected to provide some oversight of executives of regulatory bodies, but they, too, have little independence from the industry. The non-questioning of the regulatory practices inside the regulatory boards only deepens the crisis. Even when whistleblowers give executive and non-executive directors hard evidence, their concerns are often ignored. Who can forget the heroic efforts of the late Paul Moore, who alerted regulators of problems at HBOS before the financial crash? But he was ignored. Corporate grandees at regulatory bodies all too often see the issues through the industry’s lenses. Regulatory bodies have become echo chambers of the vested interests. We are talking here not just about simple regulatory capture but cognitive capture, which standardises subjectivities and has naturalised the interests of the finance industry within the regulatory bodies.

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[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I wanted to provide some examples of the kind of questions which the supervisory board might raise. For example, it could ask the FCA/PRA executive board to explain the delay in securing compensation for the victims of the HBOS and RBS frauds—that could be one question; I shall give a few more examples. It could ask why no one at the board level of HBOS and RBS has so far been prosecuted or why HSBC took 20 hours to respond to calls on its fraud helpline—which is of concern to many people. It could ask whether it was appropriate for the FCA to commission Section 166 reports from organisations involved in antisocial practices, or what progress the FCA had made in dealing with the issues relating to banks forging customers’ signatures. It could ask what policies were being developed to deal with global warming—which, again, is of interest to many people. It could ask what the regulators were doing to protect people from predatory lending practices—payday lending problems have not gone away, as we all know—or to protect businesses, especially small businesses, from excessive charges by credit card companies. It could ask what the PRA was doing to address the shortcomings of the Basel III recommendations. Lastly, as we all know that a remit of the FCA is to promote competition in respect of financial services, the supervisory board could ask how the FCA would do that given that many towns now lack bank branches.

These kinds of probing questions do not interfere with the day-to-day running, but they provide oversight and they push back against regulatory silence and capture. A supervisory board will erode the space for regulators to sweep things under their dusty carpets. It can transform our country and ensure that regulators work to protect the people and address their concerns.

Ministers often say that regulators are there to serve the people, so what objections can there be to empowering people to sit on the supervisory boards and democratise the regulatory structures and our society? Empowering people has a much lower cost than that associated with scandals and financial crisis.

I beg to move the amendment.

[Viscount Trenchard (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that Amendment 120 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, seeks to establish a supervisory board for the two regulators. My first thought was that the noble Lord intended that this board should function in the same way as a joint co-ordination committee, as proposed in Amendment 86 in the name of my noble friend Lord Blackwell, which we debated on Monday. The explanatory statement, however, does not suggest that the board would co-ordinate the activities of the two regulators; rather, it would simply monitor the executive boards of the regulators and provide a diversity of views on their conduct.

From his opening remarks, I understand that the noble Lord’s intention is very different. While there have inevitably been some mistakes, I do not recognise the picture that he paints. The regulators have always been willing to learn from what has not gone as well as it might have. As long as the PRA and FCA remain separate organisations with different functions and objectives, it seems to me that this supervisory board would, in effect, have two separate personae or incarnations. It would have to function separately as a supervisory board of the FCA and as one of the PRA. I think it cannot be a part of the legal structure of either regulator or of both regulators. It would seem to duplicate the arrangements for parliamentary oversight which we have discussed and on which I would ask my noble friend the Minister to tell the Committee how his thinking is developing.

The amendment refers to the executive board of the PRA, although the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, should be aware that the board of the PRA was replaced by the Prudential Regulation Committee of the Bank of England in 2017. I do not think that such a supervisory board would replace the need for parliamentary scrutiny of the regulators, which will in itself provide appropriate transparency and accountability, rather than the completely crushing, destructive oversight that I believe the noble Lord’s new board would cause. It would be a cumbersome, expensive and bureaucratic body that would have a negative effect on the future attractiveness and competitiveness of the City of London as a global financial centre, so I cannot support his amendment.

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[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, the Government agree that effective oversight of the FCA and PRA is a crucial component of our regulatory framework. Indeed, noble Lords will remember that in earlier debates we discussed the existing mechanisms to ensure effective independent oversight of the regulators by a diverse range of stakeholders. For example, both the FCA and PRA are required under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 to consult independent panels on the impact of their work.

I should say that in general I do not recognise the picture of regulatory capture that the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, painted in relation to our two financial regulators, although I shall of course read his comments in Hansard and make sure that I understand all that he said.

For the PRA, this involves consulting an independent practitioner panel of industry representatives, while the FCA must consult four different statutory panels, representing consumers as well as the financial services industry. Furthermore, the regulators are already under a statutory obligation to publish the results of their public consultations, including on proposed new rules.

The amendment proposes that the FCA and PRA should attend hearings in front of a supervisory board. I simply observe that both bodies must already attend such hearings before parliamentary committees, and those committees may also hear evidence from stakeholders about the performance of the regulators. The FCA, for example, must attend general accountability hearings before the Treasury Select Committee twice a year, while the PRA must appear before that committee after the publication of its annual report. Parliamentary committees of both Houses are also able to summon the regulators to give evidence whenever they may choose. For example, the CEO and chairman of the FCA appeared before the Treasury Select Committee on 1 March to answer questions on their regulation of London Capital & Finance.

The amendment proposes that a supervisory board should have the power to inquire into the adequacy of resources used and available to the FCA and the PRA. However, as we have discussed in previous debates, the Treasury already has the capacity to order independent reviews into the regulators’ economy, efficiency and effectiveness. Therefore, all told, the amendment would result in a duplication of existing opportunities for scrutiny and oversight of the regulators’ resourcing.

I realise that the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, has a close interest in the issue of supervision, but I hope I have convinced him that the PRA and FCA are already accountable in meaningful and tangible ways, and that a diverse range of stakeholders has opportunities to participate in scrutiny of their actions.

Finally, let me say that the Government are not closing down debate on these issues. As I have set out during other debates, the future regulatory framework review is already exploring how our framework needs to adapt to reflect our new position outside the EU. It would be premature to make changes to these arrangements before we consider stakeholder responses to the ongoing consultation. However, I have noted the contributions from the Committee on what form that may take. Against that background, I ask that the amendment be withdrawn.

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions to the debate, and it would be helpful if I could respond to a few points. First, under my amendment both the FCA and the PRA would need a supervisory board. Indeed, if I were redesigning the entire regulatory architecture in the UK, every regulatory body would have a supervisory board, because that is the only way of putting ordinary people, who are practised upon, inside the organisation, to check the conduct of executive boards and reshape the organisational culture, which has given us such problems.

The amendment does not duplicate in any way whatever what any parliamentary committee or review board might do. The supervisory board would simply be engaged in day-to-day strategic oversight. Those people would be in the organisation on a permanent basis, observing, requiring reports, making recommendations and in many ways hoping to prevent the major scandals that we read about later—often some years later. It has been suggested that such regulatory architecture would be cumbersome and expensive. My response, as always, is, “What do you think the cost of the status quo is?” How many more banking crashes can we afford? How many more London Capital & Finances, how many more Connaughts, and other scandals, can we afford? We simply cannot afford them.

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[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have had a request to speak after the Minister from the noble Lord, Lord Sikka. I point out to him that we are almost out of time for this Committee tonight, and I ask him please to be as brief as possible.

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, as we are pressed for time, I withdraw my intervention. I hope that I will make it another day.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Faulkner of Worcester) (Lab)]

We are grateful to you, Lord Sikka.