HS2

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Wednesday 11th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Baroness on securing this debate and note that she has drawn attention to the changed circumstances. She also used the words “white elephant”. The reason I am speaking is that I want to prevent HS2 being a white elephant, in that I am concerned about integration and connectivity.

I have been a long-term supporter of HS2 on the basis that more capacity is needed. Incidentally, the noble Baroness should be aware that HS2 is nothing more than a replacement for a railway that we used to have called the Great Central. That is all it is, quite frankly. It is another line from the north to south that was taken away by Beeching; HS2 is a replacement. I am concerned that HS2 should be part of the whole railway system, with connectivity—indeed, integration—between HS2 and the traditional railway.

I have never been happy about the hammerhead terminal in Leeds, where the line came up and was ended—as it were—as the shaft of the hammer, even though the shaft of the hammer has now been moved nearer the mainline terminus in Leeds. It was my belief that it had already been agreed that there would be a link between the HS2 phase 2b northern link in the direction of York—for a junction to be provided so that HS2 trains could reach the north, west or, indeed, south of Leeds by reaching Leeds from the east.

It is important that people understand the railway geography of Leeds. In effect, if Leeds city station is the centre, there are eight points. Only one of the those is to the east. Everything else goes to the west, to the other seven points. So, whether west means going to Harrogate, Bradford, Ilkley, Skipton, Carnforth and Carlisle, to Bradford, Halifax, Calder Valley and Manchester, to Dewsbury, Huddersfield, Manchester Airport, Liverpool, back down to Wakefield, Doncaster and Sheffield, to Normanton, Barnsley, Sheffield and Nottingham, or to Castleford, Pontefract and Goole, it is all from the west side of the city of Leeds. If you are to have any connectivity and integration, with trains coming from the HS2 network and continuing somewhere else—Leeds is a very important place, but it is not the only place in Yorkshire—it is very important that we serve other places in the old West Riding, in West Yorkshire, as well as Leeds.

Presently, under our traditional railway system, we have trains from King’s Cross. Within the last year, we now have trains every two hours to Harrogate rather than one a day, as well as a train to Bradford Forster Square and a train to Skipton; that is three different directions. We are also promised a train to Huddersfield every two hours, although goodness knows when it will happen. I do not know what the plans will be regarding what will be served by HS2 through extending, or whether these places are to be served only by a traditional railway. I do not know whether anybody knows. But there has to be at least the possibility and opportunity that other places in Yorkshire can be served by HS2—not only Leeds.

It may be that the Minister will tell us about Northern Powerhouse Rail. I want to be certain that the whole business of connectivity in Yorkshire does not fall between two stalls—that it is picked up in either in the HS2 programme, which it should be, or the northern powerhouse programme, which I think is somewhat vague. I hope the Minister will be able to say that we are sticking to the position that has been recommended. Oakervee says to stick to the full Y-shaped network. I hope that Y-shaped network will embrace the opportunity of proper integration within Yorkshire.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I agree with the noble Lord: that is a significant point. This new train line is also about adding resilience. Now, if the west coast main line goes down, as I believe it did yesterday—for which my apologies—there is no plan B. Therefore, it would certainly give the people of Wales a plan B to get them either from London to Wales or vice versa.

The integrated rail plan terms of reference were published in late February—they may have been published on a Friday, but this Government work on Fridays. The Secretary of State aims to publish the plan by the end of the year. We want to get this right. It is important that we get it done, but it must be right. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, made a couple of references to the Oakervee Review and various conclusions therein. Conclusion 11 recommended that we undertake a circa six-month study of the 2b scope in the context of the Midlands Engine Rail and Northern Powerhouse Rail proposals, so it is one of Oakervee’s conclusions. Conclusion 12 recommends that the Government consider smaller Bill phases

“to allow easier scrutiny of proposals in Parliament and faster construction”

so we may look at that. To do the phase 2b Bill in one go will be a challenge, but I am sure it is doable and that we have the stamina to do so. However, if it would be helpful, it might be a good idea to have smaller Bills. The Government’s next steps are therefore consistent with what Oakervee suggested.

On the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, on the route, the Secretary of State has committed to delivering HS2 to Leeds via the east Midlands; we have no plans to route HS2 trains from London to Leeds by Manchester.

On the specific issue of Leeds station, the HS2 station design for Leeds aims to integrate an HS2 station with the existing conventional station to allow for easy access and interchange between HS2, Northern Powerhouse Rail and local services across West Yorkshire and the north.

There was an original plan in Leeds to locate the HS2 station towards the south, but work to review the options further in 2014-15 recognised that priority should be given to greater interchange.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

There is a difference between having an interchange at the hammerhead and a junction at the east so that trains from the south can go to all other places.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I suspected that I would not keep the noble Lord 100% happy. I will certainly write to him.

I have various elements on the environment but that was not in the topic of the debate so I will have to write to the noble Baroness because I am out of time, which is incredibly disappointing.

Buses: Rural Services

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

It is the case that local authorities have a statutory duty to provide some concessionary travel, but they also provide discretionary concessionary travel, which is important too. I am not aware of the scheme that my noble friend noted, but I will be happy if she can send me some details and we will certainly look at this. I reiterate that we are being innovative about making the best use of our assets to make sure that people in rural communities have transport.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, it says on the bus pass:

“Concessionary travel funded by HM Government with your local authority”.


Should not Her Majesty’s Government therefore be absolutely certain that they are funding travel in rural areas for rural dwellers and for people in urban areas to get to rural places?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

I reiterate to the noble Lord that we are providing funding—we are supporting £2.12 billion-worth of funding. It is not just about the money; it is also about being innovative with how we spend it. It is the case that local authorities know what is best for their local communities. It is not up to national government to micromanage hyperlocal bus schedules.

Railways Investment: North of England

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

I can reassure the noble Lord that we are well aware that people travel on trains and use transport outside London. Our record on devolution is strong; we have established Transport for the North and have devolved significant powers to metro mayors across the country. That ensures that the north has more influence than ever on crucial decisions on transport investment. We have given TfN unprecedented powers to influence decisions on transport investment in the north and to set out the north’s unified strategic transport plan, which the Secretary of State must take into account.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, to bring matters back to the north, the Minister mentioned Northern Powerhouse Rail. I have the feeling that the northern powerhouse is something akin to the American dream. Can we understand what it really means, and is there anything such as a route yet planned as to where it will go, which places may be served and when it may happen?

Railways: Wales

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I said, we have devolved the decision on the franchise to the Welsh Government. The new franchise will see transformation across the Welsh railway network, including substantial frequency improvements on new routes and the doubling of service frequencies on many routes. The Welsh Government have said that the new franchise will see a £5 billion investment to fund significant improvements. The Government committed to devolve the award of the franchise to the Welsh Government; they have made that decision.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, is it possible for the Minister to use “electrification” without preceding it with “disruptive”?

[Baroness Sugg]

It is possible. As I said, we will use electrification where it delivers the benefits that passengers need more quickly.

Railways: East Coast Main Line

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

I can confirm to my noble friend those services planned for next year will come in. The good news also is that we fully expect the new intercity express trains to be introduced on the east coast main line from the end of this year, as planned. That will bring an increase in seat capacity and enable reductions in journey times.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will recall responding to questions in February on this issue about expansion of services. Lincoln may well be a splendid place, but can we look further north? The Minister indicated in February that new services would start in May 2019 and go as far as Bradford and Harrogate and, perhaps a little later, Middlesbrough and Huddersfield. Is that still the case? Would she like to reconfirm what she said then?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am happy to reconfirm what I said then. The introduction of LNER will not affect the planned services or delivery. We will continue to see new services in 2019 and 2020.

Railways: East Coast Main Line

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, of course I understand the position of the staff. It is important that they have confidence in their jobs, and that is why we are looking through two options for the continuation of services up to 2020, and why, from 2020, we will be introducing the new public/private partnership.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, we are promised that on 20 May we will have the biggest timetable change in 10 or 15 years—this is a mere 67 days hence. I looked at the east coast website this morning, and there is no detail about this timetable. Is the change dependent on whoever gets the franchise, or will we have the timetable that Virgin Trains may have speculated it could run from 20 May?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the timetable is not dependent on the decision made between the two options. I understand there has been a delay to the timetable, for which I apologise. The operator and Network Rail are working through the options and are looking to publish it as soon as they possibly can.

Rail Update

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, there is a conflict in the Statement between what it is stated in paragraph 7:

“The business will continue to operate … with no impact on services or staff on the East Coast”,


and what is stated in paragraph 18:

“I have … asked my officials to conduct a full appraisal of the options available to the Government to ensure continuity of service”,


until the fresh start in 2020.

The noble Baroness may well recall that I tabled a Written Question last week, which she kindly answered on 1 February. I had had a look at the press release that was put out by Stagecoach when it got the franchise in the first place. It said that it would give us direct services from Middlesbrough to London, two-hourly direct weekday services between Bradford, Harrogate, Lincoln and London, and a new direct peak-time service between Huddersfield and London, to be established by May 2019. The noble Baroness answered that the Government:

“expect to provide additional services between Lincoln, Harrogate, Bradford and London from May 2019. It remains our intention to deliver additional services to Middlesbrough and Huddersfield”.

She does not say when. She continued:

“Virgin Trains East Coast has contingent rights to run services from London to Middlesbrough from May 2020 and firm rights from May 2021”.


I do not know how strong they will be now. I do not know when all this brewed up, but does she still stand by these services commencing in May 2019 that she signed off on 1 February?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. On the issue of making sure that we get the decision right for passengers, as the Statement said, protecting the interests of passengers is the first principle which we look at and we will be looking at the comparison between the two on that basis. I have a copy of the reply to the noble Lord’s Question as I thought that he might bring it up; he helpfully read it out. We absolutely expect to meet those commitments. Whatever decision the Secretary of State makes on the running of the franchise up to 2019, whoever gets it will inherit those. Again, with the new partnership in 2020, they will be expected to deliver that.

Transport for the North

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

Yes, my Lords. We fully intend to create more statutory transport bodies, and I welcome the work of Midlands Connect in bringing together local authorities and partners, including Highways England, HS2 and Network Rail. My noble friend rightly points out the potential of the Midlands. We look forward to seeing the proposal for Midlands Connect, and we hope that it will become England’s second statutory transport body.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, this document is very ambitious and there are some very expensive proposals. However, within it, Transport for the North talks about some of the precursors, including the Great North Rail Project—the trans-Pennine route upgrade—and indicates that it would like to see a firm commitment about that upgrade and electrification in early 2018. That is where we have now arrived. Can the Minister give that commitment?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we are absolutely committed to improving journeys on the trans-Pennine route, bringing in the state-of-the-art trains, longer carriages and more frequent services that the passengers would like. We want to go further and are planning to spend £3 billion to upgrade the key routes between Manchester, Leeds and York to give passengers those better, faster and more reliable journeys.

Railways: Northern England

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, we will be announcing our proposals for that line in due course, but let me just say that we are investing more than £1 billion in the great north rail project, which is transforming rail travel for passengers across the north up to 2019 as part of our over £13 billion investment in rail infrastructure.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, opening lines is one thing; opening stations on lines that are already open ought to be considerably easier. There was the line between Halifax and Huddersfield reopening in 2000. A railway station was built in Brighouse, and we were promised one for Elland, but we are still waiting—17 years later. Once the business case has really been made, and expectations have been created, how long does the Minister think that folk should have to wait for this station?

[Lord Callanan]

Clearly, the provision of additional stations on important local lines is vital, but I shall have to write to the noble Lord on the detailed business case for that particular station.

HS2: North of England and Scotland

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, can I ask when the final route plans for HS3—

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords—

[Noble Lords]

Order!

[Lord Rosser]

Can I ask—

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

Come on—get back to me.

[Noble Lords]

Order!