Covid-19: Museums, Galleries and Historic Buildings

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Heritage Railways. Heritage railways embrace getting on for 200 moving museums and are normally enjoyed by 13 million visitors each year. They are supported by 4,000 employees and 22,000 volunteers. They rely on earning enough money from visitor journeys and providing catering services through the summer to have the resources they need to spend on repairs and enhancement during the winter. There is now serious doubt about whether there can be any operations this summer, with social distancing being a particular challenge. They are worried that they are in the middle of a time which appears to be three winters in a row. In her reply, can the Minister say what specific measures can be made available to assist heritage railways through this famine, so that they will still be here to be enjoyed in the future?

Heritage Rail: Young People

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, I must declare an interest as a member of the APPG who took part in the inquiry. I am delighted to follow what has been a united front and I certainly give credit to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester, for leading us through this debate and for all the work he has done with heritage railways so far. I wondered how far we would become tourists ourselves this evening, and we have been to the Talyllyn Railway, the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway, and railways in Helston, Telford, East Lancashire and Swanage. My noble friend gave us a tour de force on the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway, including details of all the steam locomotives. As I said, we have had a united front.

The report produced is unlike many reports because although heritage railways are not averse to money—particularly not to accepting it for capital projects—the report is not about money. Heritage railways have an immense involvement in tourism, which makes this an interest for the Minister. Several are in conurbations but several others are quite remote. Some of those who are able to participate travel great distances to volunteer on heritage railways; for some, it is only a few miles because they are not far from the conurbations.

The report is about the involvement of young people and volunteering. Volunteers need renewing and it is important to catch them young. There is much in the report but our real concern is about the 1920 Act, which has become a serious impediment for heritage railways by discouraging young people, particularly 14 and 15 year-olds, from volunteering. We do not want another Beeching for a lack of sufficient volunteers. The lawyers have had a look at the Act and we can take another look. It was passed in 1920; at that time, the school-leaving age was 14. So does the Act apply today, as if the school-leaving age was 14, or is it some later time? That may be an open point.

I should like to cite my own experience at this point. I had always been interested in railways and was one of the trainspotters. When I got involved with the Talyllyn Railway, there were several people from the West Riding helping on it. I went as a 15 year-old to the Talyllyn on several weekends. In particular, I went at that age on the Dolgoch slip when the earth had moved away from the track and it was unsafe for the whole line to be used. Groups of amateurs and volunteers turned up and I, at 15, was one of those who helped to build a great piece of concrete to keep that track in place. I enjoyed that group activity. I had no idea, by the way, that I was breaking the law as a 15 year-old taking part in that activity. However, it gave me the thought: was being a civil engineer in later life something I might do? I gave it serious thought. It did not happen, but it shows that it is one of the things that can happen for youngsters when they take part in such work. The work they do as a volunteer can be a precursor to work later in life.

I am pleased that a DCMS Minister will be responding to the debate. He may not like the idea of new primary legislation, although June and July 2019 would not be a bad time to give us the job of producing a new Act of Parliament. If that cannot be done, surely an order-making power can be rooted out so that we can get rid of this impediment, because even though people are saying, “No one’s going to bother about it if people of 14 and 15 do these things”, it quite clearly is an impediment. Who knows in litigious times whether it could be real? I hope the Minister can look at that.

It is interesting that DCMS and the Minister deal with other leisure pursuits, particularly sport. Volunteering on heritage rail seems similar to being involved in heritage buildings, rambling, youth hostelling—all these things. There are many types of leisure-time activity. Some involve much physical activity, while others are quite sedentary, such as collecting stamps, coins and even railway tickets. I want to mention sporting activity. The document 2010 to 2015 Government Policy: Sports Participation states:

“To make sure as many people as possible are playing sport, the government is … funding … to help community sports grow, including helping 14- to 25-year-olds to keep playing sport throughout their lives”.


I do not want to detract from people being involved in sport or from the Government supporting that, but I do not see why they should not put people who are interested in heritage railways in the same position as they put those who are excited about sport.

English Churches and Cathedrals Sustainability Review

Lord Shutt of Greetland Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course I agree with the right reverend Prelate that one way that churches can remain relevant is to involve themselves with things that go on in their community. That is exactly what the review is going to look at, among other things, including the uses of listed buildings for purposes beyond worship and what barriers prevent that happening.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister make it clear that there must be parity of esteem, when any state resources are being used, between churches of the established Church and nonconformist churches, chapels, meeting houses or Roman Catholic churches, which are not covered by many of the schemes that cover the established Church?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is precisely why the Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme covers all faiths.