Social Housing

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Tuesday 21st November 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Shipley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their target for the number of additional social homes to be built by 2022.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, in reminding the House that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, affordable housing is the Government’s priority. That is why the Prime Minister announced a further £2 billion of funding for affordable housing, increasing the affordable homes programme budget to over £9 billion to March 2021. The programme will deliver a wide range of affordable housing, including social rent homes. Funding for social rent will be focused in areas with acute affordability pressure. The programme is flexible and the precise number of homes and tenure types will depend on the bids received. This allows providers to have the flexibility and agility to respond to local needs and markets, building the right homes in the right places.

[Lord Shipley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. On 9 November, the Government published figures which showed that in 2016-17, only 5,380 homes for social rent were completed, amounting to just 2.5% of the total number of 217,350 new homes. That figure includes new builds and conversions. Is the Minister as disturbed as I am by those figures, given the huge length of waiting lists for social homes for rent, and what plans do the Government have to free up local authorities to get building again?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, last year—2016-17—was the best year for housebuilding for a decade. Having said that, I accept there is a significant challenge in relation to social housing. Much of that £2 billion will, as I indicated, be committed to that, and that will begin to tackle the problem. However, I agree with what the noble Lord is saying. There is a challenge there, and we are hoping to meet it—and, of course, we have a Budget tomorrow.

Regulation of Social Housing (Influence of Local Authorities) (England) Regulations 2017

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, first, I remind the House that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I thank the Minister for his explanation of this draft instrument. He referred to the Green Paper. I think that I recall his words correctly when I say that the consultation that the Minister for Housing has been undertaking is helping to frame that Green Paper. Perhaps, in summing up, the Minister will tell us when the paper will be published.

I concur with what the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, said about the need to build more homes, and in particular more social homes. Specifically, these regulations will not improve the accountability of housing associations, as he said—but, on the other hand, as the Minister has confirmed, only around 100 are affected directly. It is, however, a weakness in these regulations that no formal consultation was carried out with tenants. That has been identified by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee in its response to the statutory instrument. The problem is that tenants used to be council tenants, and they voted for a stock transfer in the expectation that the council would have a significant role. That role is now being reduced to 24%. As a consequence of that governance change, it would have been right to have consulted with tenants.

As the Minister explained, the regulation is being introduced to meet the decision of the Office for National Statistics to reclassify private-registered providers as public bodies, partly because of the powers of the Homes and Communities Agency and partly because of the residual role of local authorities. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, pointed out, none of this builds new homes. It is, essentially, a governance issue. What is missing from the draft statutory instrument is any explanation as to why debt from building council housing should be treated as public sector debt anyway. This governance problem would disappear if the Treasury were prepared to define all local authority borrowing as off balance sheet.

The Prime Minister announced at the Conservative Party conference that on social housing it was her,

“mission to solve this problem”.

The Prime Minister will do so only if local authorities are freed up to borrow and that borrowing is treated, as it is in other countries, not as part of public sector net debt. That is a British measure only. In other EU countries, public corporations are excluded from the general government gross debt figure—the main international measure of debt—in which council housing is classified not as part of government but as a public corporation. An exemption in the UK specifically for council and social housing from the current British measure would comply with international measures of debt. If the Government undertook that change, it would enable more homes to be built and, in particular, more social homes. Therefore, I want to ask the Minister very specifically: why do Treasury rules not reflect international conventions on how debt is counted? If we change the convention, which we are perfectly entitled to do, it would enable those extra social homes to be built.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I endorse wholeheartedly the observations of the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, my erstwhile sparring partner in Newcastle City Council. He is absolutely right to draw attention to the anomalous position in which public expenditure on housing is treated. It is not, after all, a matter of creating debt; it is a matter of creating assets. Admittedly, the value of those assets is somewhat eroded by the right-to-buy at a ridiculous discount provisions, but nevertheless it is real. I do not see why the Government should refrain from adopting the noble Lord’s advice and getting this off the balance sheet completely.

On the mechanics of the operation, there is a curious figure of 24%. I do not know quite how you calculate 24% on, say, a board of 15—do you go up one or down one?—because it is a difficult figure and not quite a quarter. No doubt there is some obscure legal justification for having it at marginally less than 25%. I invite the Minister to say that associations should not be precluded from having in attendance at the meeting and participating in the meeting, but without a vote, more representatives of the local authority.

I repeat that they should not have the right to vote, but should have the right on behalf of the residents of the authority of which they are a member to ask questions, raise issues and perhaps make suggestions. Again, I repeat that they would not have the right to vote. Would that not be a sensible way of strengthening the local authority’s role in relation to the issue?

Grenfell Recovery Taskforce

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Monday 6th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I remind the House that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I should like to address the issue of emergency planning. It has become clear from this report that the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea did not have an operational emergency plan in place when the Grenfell fire broke out in June. The Statement does not actually tell us whether there is one in place now, or whether officers are being employed in the council to deliver one. However, on page three the report states:

“This intervention has not had the benefit of an inspection that would identify specific failings in a local authority and would precede a statutory intervention”.


Will action be taken to assess the robustness of Kensington and Chelsea’s emergency planning, which is a statutory requirement? Also, can the Minister say what advice his department will now give to other local authorities about emergency planning arising from the lessons being learned in Kensington and Chelsea?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Lord for his question in relation to emergency planning. He will be aware that one of the terms of reference of the inquiry is the actions of the local authority and other bodies before the tragedy, so it certainly will be picked up by the inquiry. Further to that, what we obviously want to ensure, and no doubt the House will totally support this, is that all the lessons from this are learned by all local authorities and public authorities. We would wish the message to go out and we will ensure that that happens. The messages from this are to be learned by local authorities for the future, including in relation to emergency planning along with many other issues.

Neighbourhood Planning Bill

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 25th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Framlingham (Con)]

My Lords, pubs are a vital part of our nation’s life. I am delighted that the Government have decided to take this action, as I am sure are both CAMRA and the British Beer and Pub Association. The Minister has been the essence of competence and courtesy throughout the whole of this debate and I am extremely grateful to him. I trust that in due course glasses will be raised in pubs up and down the land to both the Minister and the Government.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, first, I thank my noble friend Lord Stunell for his work on the amendments in relation to the National Planning Policy Framework and for his contribution today. We shall see in the months ahead whether the solution proposed by the Minister manages to hold up against any challenge.

As we have heard, as the Bill progressed we had several lengthy debates in this Chamber on pubs and permitted development for alternative uses. I, too, am grateful to the Minister and to the Government for listening so carefully to the views from across this House and for this revised amendment from the other place, which will help greatly with the protection of pubs at risk. It has the advantage of introducing a permitted development right where the proposal is to extend the range of food to be offered while maintaining the pub itself. Beyond that, planning permission will be required before a pub can be demolished or face a change of use. That puts powers into the hands of local people and local planning authorities—here, I remind the House of my vice-presidency of the Local Government Association—and that has to be beneficial.

I pay tribute to all those who have campaigned on this issue, including the Campaign for Real Ale and the British Beer and Pub Association, and to those from all parties—including my colleague in the other place, Greg Mulholland—who have spoken and campaigned in support of it. I am very pleased to commend the Commons amendment.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, as this is my first contribution on these matters, I refer Members to my declaration of interests in the register. I declare that I am an elected councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham, a vice-president of the Local Government Association and the vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Beer Group.

In respect of Motion A, I am disappointed that the other place did not accept the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, although I accept the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, that the other House did not divide on the issue. I hope that the noble Lord, with his colleagues in the department, will keep this matter under review so that, if it turns out that the provision needs to be strengthened, we can return to it at a later date. The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, made a very important point about the primacy of the NPPF.

In respect of Motion B, I am delighted that the Government have listened to the campaign both inside and outside Parliament. I pay tribute to two Members of the other place—Charlotte Leslie, the Conservative Member of Parliament for Bristol North West, and Greg Mulholland, the Liberal Democrat Member for Leeds North West—for their campaigning over a number of years to bring about this change.

I also thank all the Members of your Lordships’ House who supported me in the debate and in the Division Lobbies. I particularly want to thank those Conservative Members who voted with me and those who kindly abstained, as that played an important part in getting a large majority when I tested the opinion of the House. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, for his generous support in the debate, as well as others, such as the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of York. I am also grateful for the support that I received from the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Scriven, and others.

The amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, corrects a loophole that was of great harm to successful pubs, and it protects and helps them. In the previous debate I was very clear that the intention behind what I proposed was never to keep open a pub that was not a successful business but to support successful businesses.

I like pubs and I like a pint. Like the noble Lord, Lord Framlingham, I probably should have bought a few shares in the odd pub or brewery; I have certainly spent enough money on beer over the years.

I also pay tribute to the fantastic work done by Tim Page, the chief executive of CAMRA, Amy O’Callaghan, its senior campaigns officer, and all the members of CAMRA in branches across the country who emailed and phoned us and Members of the other place.

This amendment is important, and I am grateful to the Government and the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, for listening. It is an example of the House of Lords doing its job well. By winning the argument on the original amendment, we created the conditions for the Government to think again and we have a great solution today that I am delighted to support.

West Midlands Combined Authority (Functions and Amendment) Order 2017

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

In conclusion, this order devolves brand new, far-ranging powers to the West Midlands, putting decision-making in the hands of local people and helping the area to fulfil its long-term ambitions. The draft order we are considering today is a significant milestone that will contribute to greater prosperity in the West Midlands and pave the way for a more balanced economy and economic success right across the country. I commend the draft order to the House.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing this order. I find it refreshing that councils want to join the combined authority, as opposed to wanting to opt out of it. It is good to see the broadly positive outcome of the consultation, with some quite strong figures. It will be helpful to have the extent of the responsibilities and powers that are defined in the order, because they are not up to the same as other combined authority orders, so it makes it much easier to pile up the differences between combined authorities. It is also good to see in the order the checks and balances in the powers of the constituent councils, the combined authority and the mayor. They are quite complex, particularly in view of the number of constituent councils, but I think they are quite workable.

I want to ask the Minister a very specific question about the powers of the mayor and the combined authority, given that they have compulsory purchase powers and, of course, that the combined authority takes over the powers of the Homes and Communities Agency. I just want to be absolutely certain on the record that there is no involvement by the mayor or the combined authority in the granting of planning permission in any part of the West Midlands Combined Authority.

The Minister referred to the independent remuneration panel. This panel relates to the mayor and the deputy mayor of the West Midlands. I think that we are creating too many independent remuneration panels. The time has come for there to be a single, national system for England in the remuneration of combined authority members, elected mayors and councillors. It should not be difficult to construct a system; most other organisations have national schemes. I no longer understand why everything has been localised in the way that it has or, indeed, why there has to be a separate independent remuneration panel for the mayor and deputy mayor of a combined authority.

I want to make two final, very brief points. In the paragraph about the appointment of a political adviser, which I understand applies to all combined authorities, can the Minister clarify the meaning of “within proportionate resource”? A political adviser can be paid “within proportionate resource”, but I do not understand what it is proportionate to. It could be proportionate to the remuneration of the mayor or of the deputy mayor; it could be proportionate to the remuneration of those serving on the combined authority; or it could relate to the budget of the office or of the mayor’s office. We need to be clear about what that phrase means because it is the kind of thing that might cause difficulty later.

My final point relates to political balance. There are 28 members on this combined authority, which I find a welcome number because it means that there is support for the concept of the combined authority. First, I want to be clearer about the political balance of those 28 members to ensure that all interests are involved. In other places—for example, in individual councils—questions of political balance on the appointment of committees are required to be considered. I am slightly concerned that one may find a predominance of only one political party, or maybe two, on a combined authority. How will political balance be ensured, given the number of members on the West Midlands Combined Authority? Secondly, with regard to the scrutiny function, which is subject to legislation that has already been passed by your Lordships’ House, I just want to hear from the Minister that political balance will be ensured on the terms that have already been agreed and that there will be no difference at all in the West Midlands, given the importance that scrutiny is going to have in what is a comparatively large combined authority.

[Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Con)]

My Lords, I have not been involved in these matters before, but I am a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and, during our earlier reviews, I have become aware of the questions about the extent of public consultation and the extent to which that consultation has favoured the Government’s proposals. My noble friend referred to that in his opening remarks; I think he said that 1,328 people had responded. That is a decent number, but we are talking about several million people in the organisation that we are talking about, so it is not a significant number statistically. Nevertheless, I welcome that more than half that number were in favour.

I happen to have had a regret Motion on a completely different matter that preceded the discussion we had the other day, about the combined authorities of East Anglia and the north-east, and I noted some of the concerns expressed by other noble Lords at that time. When the scrutiny committee had the West Midlands authority brought before it, I decided to look at it with slightly more care. I entirely appreciate and support the original concept of the urban West Midlands. I know that there are tensions between the Black Country and Birmingham, and so on, but nevertheless there is some cohesion. But when I saw what had been tacked on, I got out my mobile phone and googled the distance from Nuneaton, which is on the eastern end of the area, to Montgomery, which is just over the border in Wales and just outside the western end, and the distance is 96 miles. I did the same from north to south, and the distance is 106 miles. This is a very big area indeed, and I wonder what an authority which runs from the Potteries to the Cotswolds and from the M1 to the Welsh border is going to be able to do to hold this thing together and give it a sense of cohesion.

I understand about the urban West Midlands and the mayor elections taking place there in May. But with this very limited consultation in the first place, which brings in an entirely different type of society—rural, quite lowly populated—I wonder whether we are creating a structure that is really going to deliver what the people in those outlying, tacked-on areas are going to appreciate as a worthwhile and efficient use of local authority and indeed central government funds.

Combined Authorities (Finance) Order 2017

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the order puts in place the process that elected mayors and their combined authorities will follow for setting the mayoral budget and issuing precepts. For the six mayoral combined authorities with elections this May, these processes will apply in relation to 2018-19 and each subsequent year. This is applicable to all mayoral combined authorities, except for the West of England. In this case, reflecting local choice, there will be no mayoral precept, an outcome secured by provisions in the order establishing that combined authority. In addition, the order makes certain transitional finance provisions for Greater Manchester, reflecting that, from 8 May 2017, its mayor will have police and crime commissioner responsibilities, and be responsible for the Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service.

This order establishes the final element in the funding framework for mayoral combined authorities. Under this framework, the activities of combined authorities and their mayors will be funded as follows. First, combined authorities and their mayors, as provided for in the devolution deals, will receive new, additional financial resources from government. In particular, noble Lords will recall that the Government are providing £30 million per year for 30 years of investment funding, known as “gain share”, to areas such as Greater Manchester, the West of England and the Liverpool City Region. In the case of the West Midlands, which we have considered in the previous debate ahead of the Statement, this investment funding is £36.5 million per year for 30 years. In the case of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough it is £20 million per year for 30 years and in the Tees Valley, reflecting the size of the area, it is £15 million per year for 30 years. Central government resources also include budgets for transport, and the mayors will have the powers to allocate this funding to the constituent councils, as we saw in the order that we previously considered today for the West Midlands.

Secondly, the primary legislation—the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009—together with the orders we have made for individual combined authorities, provides that the constituent councils can make contributions to combined authorities and mayors. Importantly the orders also provide that, in the case of mayoral expenses, the mayor must agree contributions with the constituent councils in advance of incurring expenditure.

Thirdly, combined authorities can impose a levy on their constituent councils for transport costs. It is open to us also to make further secondary legislation to extend these levy powers for other functions of the combined authority. The constituent councils then build these levies into their own budgets.

Finally, mayoral functions—to the extent they are not met by other means—are to be met by a precept. This precept is determined each year through the mayoral budget process and is formally issued by the combined authority to the billing authorities in its area. The billing authorities then build this precept into their council taxes and the precept will be visible on council tax bills. As I said earlier, the mayor for the West of England does not set a precept. In this area, the costs of the mayor will be funded through contributions from the constituent councils.

If approved by Parliament, today’s order is to be made under the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009—as amended by the Cities and Local Government Act 2016—and makes detailed provision about budgeting and precepting. If approved by Parliament, the order will come into effect the day after it is made. The specific provisions, which are designed to ensure an effective process including robust arrangements for scrutiny and challenge of the mayors’ proposals, are as follows. First, there is a requirement for combined authority mayors to submit by 1 February of a given year a draft budget to their combined authority for consideration. Secondly, the combined authority recommends any amendments to the draft budget before 8 February, and the mayor considers them and makes a further proposal if he should choose to do so. Thirdly, the constituent members of the combined authority may impose amendments to the mayor’s draft budget, if supported by a two-thirds majority—except in the case of the Tees Valley, where that majority is three-fifths. In the absence of this majority, the mayor’s proposals must be accepted by the combined authority.

Fourthly, the combined authority must set a mayoral budget if the mayor does not submit a draft for consideration by 1 February. Fifthly, the mayor is to fund mayoral functions through a precept, which will be subject to referendum principles that limit precept increases in the absence of a council tax referendum. Sixthly, the standard local government finance regime applies so that precepts must be issued by 1 March. Seventhly and lastly, to aid transparency the mayor is required to maintain a fund relating to the receipts and expenses of the mayor’s functions, excluding police and crime commissioner functions, for which Manchester city combined authority is responsible and for which there is a separate police fund.

The order also contains detailed provisions about transitional measures. The duty to issue a precept is disapplied in relation to the year in which the first mayor for the combined authority is elected. This is because for this year the mayor will not be in office in time for the precept to be set. Mayoral expenses in this first year will therefore be met by contributions from the constituent councils.

The final transitional provisions relate to Greater Manchester, where the mayor will be responsible for police and crime functions and the fire and rescue services. These provide that the precepts for 2017-18, which have been issued by the Greater Manchester police and crime commissioner and the fire and rescue service, will from 8 May this year fund the mayor’s activities in respect of policing and fire and rescue functions.

In conclusion, the order will support the new combined authority mayors to fund their functions through a precept and a budget-setting process that allows for effective challenge and robust and transparent scrutiny by the combined authority. The draft order will complement the orders already approved by this House to implement the devolution deals agreed between local areas and the Government, paving the way for a more balanced and successful economy and improving housing supply across the country. I therefore commend the order to the House.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I shall make two brief points. First, the powers and the checks and balances proposed in the order seem appropriate, but I note the final paragraph of the Explanatory Memorandum concerning monitoring and review, which says:

“Mayoral combined authorities will be required … to put in place an extensive programme of evaluation”.


I suggest to the Minister, not least because there are two different methods for creating the mayoral budget now—for most the precept, and for the West of England by agreement of the constituent councils—that evaluating how that works could well be something for independent review as opposed to being done by the combined authorities. I hope the Minister will pay some regard to that.

The other issue is that I did not quite understand what the Minister said about audit and, in particular, scrutiny. There is a very tight timetable between the beginning of February and the beginning of March. There is to be a budget proposed by the mayor, then to be agreed by the combined authority. The combined authority is of course scrutinising that mayoral budget, except that the combined authority itself is subject to scrutiny. My question is: at what point will the scrutiny arrangements that have already been approved by another order apply? Will there be a role for the scrutiny panel before 1 March, or will the scrutiny panel put forward its views at a date between 1 March and the date at which the constituent councils are setting their budgets, which need to come very early in March? There is a process issue about the role of scrutiny, because I think the Minister said that the combined authority has a scrutiny power over the mayoral budget, but the combined authority is actually itself subject to a formal statutory scrutiny arrangement.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my declaration of interests and put on record that I am a councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I have no objections to the order before us and I am very happy to agree it. There does, however, need to be a wider debate at another time about where we are going with local government in England outside London. I will leave that for another day.

The section of the order with respect to mayors’ budgets is particularly welcome. I was pleased that the Minister made reference to the fact that there is a veto provision. All mayors will be mindful of that but, equally, it is set at the high bar of a two-thirds majority, or, in the case of Tees Valley Combined Authority, of a three-fifths majority. That is an important provision that mayors should be aware of.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, made important points regarding auditing and scrutiny. I welcome the Minister’s response to that. I assume I am correct that if local electors have objections to the council they can make these as normal, but could the Minister confirm that as well as he can in writing?

For the record, in the previous debate when asking about mayors and their function the point I made was about selling land below market value, not at market value. Will the Minister also respond to that point in writing?

Neighbourhood Planning Bill

Lord Shipley Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, as we start Third Reading, I declare my vice-presidency of the Local Government Association. The Minister said that this was a better Bill for the work of this Chamber and I concur entirely. The value of the revising nature of this Chamber has been demonstrated in the work that took place in Committee and on Report. I pay tribute to the Minister and his officials for their willingness to meet and to listen, and for the courtesy they showed. The outcome is a much better and stronger Bill than when it came to this House. I learned from the debates we had that there is an appetite from all parts of this House to promote neighbourhood planning. There is a sense of common purpose about that which I strongly welcome.

I said at an earlier stage in the Bill that we need a plain English guide to the planning system which the general public could relate to. The noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, talked about the flow chart which will all be very helpful. Indeed, on the departmental website there is a plain English guide to the planning system in general terms. I am looking here for a plain English guide to the Bill which will become a practitioners’ guide as opposed simply to a plain English guide explaining what the Bill is about. It should go into much more detail than we currently have. I notice that the Minister talked about the plans of the RICS to create further briefing materials for the examiner of a neighbourhood plan. I welcome that but if we are seriously to promote neighbourhood planning and achieve many more areas, particularly urban ones, engaging with the process, a practitioners’ guide would be extremely helpful.

Amendments 1 and 5 are very helpful and reflect the discussions we had in Committee and on Report. I too pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, for all her work in this area. The Minister talked about her generosity with her time and that is absolutely right. The amount of time and effort that went into convincing the Ministers, their colleagues and officials that this really is important has borne fruit. These two amendments bring the process of neighbourhood planning closer to those devising a neighbourhood plan. The noble Baroness talked about the planning system being rigid, and indeed it is. There are good reasons why that is the case in terms of challenges but, equally, it needs to be a system that is understood by all those trying to engage with the process. In Amendments 1 and 5 we have the publication of a draft report by the examiner and the potential for meetings to be held about that draft. This is a major step forward and I welcome it.

I have two further points. First, there is the timing of the regulations. The noble Baroness asked about that and it is very important that we get some sense of when it is likely to be. The Minister talked about the consultation on the White Paper and the outcome of that. The consultation on the White Paper is due to end at the beginning of May but we tend to find that there is then a long period—several months—before something happens. Of course, this will be going over the summer period as well so it could be even longer than that. I think I interpreted from the Minister’s words —which included the word “swiftly”—that it is going to be faster than that. I very much hope that it will be, because so many of the helpful things that are being proposed in the White Paper need to be got on with as soon as possible. I hope that there will be a timetable that will speed up the process.

We have not quite finished Third Reading, but I want to say that the process of examining this Bill and getting it to the point where it is in a strong form to pass Third Reading is down to a great deal of effort by a large number of people. I pay tribute in particular to the Ministers, the noble Lords, Lord Bourne and Lord Young, for their support for this process, which has been hugely appreciated.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I join the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, in paying tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, for her very thoughtful and constructive—and somewhat exhaustive —approach to the deliberations on the Bill. It has been a pleasure to work with both the Ministers, but particularly, if I may say so, with the noble Lord, Lord Bourne. I make that point having discovered recently that he, like me, is a great fan of Leicester City; in my case, it is my second team. I rather hope we might be playing in the same league next season and I hope that will be the Premiership. In that event, perhaps the noble Lord would care to accompany me to a match, when naturally Newcastle will expect to beat my other team.

The substantive issue this afternoon is not the fate of either of those teams but the drawing to conclusion of the Bill. It has been a pleasure to work in such a constructive way with both Ministers, but principally, on the major part of the Bill, with the noble Lord, Lord Bourne. He has listened carefully and been very constructive in his approach. Indeed, the whole experience has been a vast improvement on the dreadful time we had with the Housing and Planning Act last year. That is no reflection at all on the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, who struggled mightily to retain her sanity and promote ours during the course of that legislation.

I have one or two questions about Amendment 1. Proposed new sub-paragraph (3)(d) says that a meeting should be held following the issuing of invitations, which are outlined in proposed new sub-paragraph (3)(c). Is that a meeting with an individual, or is it envisaged as a public meeting in which other interested parties would be involved? There might be a number of people who make submissions; there might be only one or two. Would that meeting be just with those who make the contact, or will it be on a broader basis? The definition of “persons” is slightly mysterious. It talks about,

“the qualifying body … the local planning authority”—

that is obvious—

“and ... such other persons as may be prescribed”.

Can the Minister indicate what is envisaged by that rather muffled description?

Then there is the question of the regulations. Will the regulations themselves be subject to consultation? The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, referred to consultation. Will the specific regulations in relation to this amendment be subject to consultation in the way that the Minister has described generally the consultation which will take place on other matters?

Having said that, and while I wait with anticipation to hear the Minister’s response, again I congratulate him and the noble Lord, Lord Young, on the way they have conducted this matter. I look forward to that degree of co-operation continuing over the secondary legislation that will follow. It is very important that the Bill should go forward into practice in a way that, frankly, we have not yet seen adequately with the Housing and Planning Act 2016. I hope that we can learn from that experience and carry the Bill forward in the constructive way that Members of all sides have sought to treat it.

Council Housing

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as my noble friend says, sheltered housing is absolutely vital. I am very pleased to say that. I do not think there is any suggestion of bringing back direct labour. I am told that he was a byword in relation to direct labour in the 1970s. However, we recognise the importance of council housing. He will know that in the last five years we have built more council housing than was built in the previous 13 years, from 1997 to 2010.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, in reminding the House that I, too, am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that 10 days ago the Chartered Institute of Housing said:

“The government’s ambition to solve the housing crisis will not be possible if an imbalance in housing funding continues … as new figures reveal just £8 billion of the £51 billion earmarked for housing up to 2021 will directly fund affordable homes”.?


Does the Minister agree that we need many more homes for social rent?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that the Housing White Paper talks about boldness and the fact that we are looking at a mix of housing. That is very welcome and has certainly been welcomed by many people across political parties—for example, the London mayor. It is absolutely right that we should do that, and, of course, social housing is an important part of that. I was unaware of the quote that the noble Lord mentioned. However, he will know that a range of people across many parties and professional organisations have welcomed the Housing White Paper as initiating a very valuable debate on housing right across the board.

Neighbourhood Planning Bill

Lord Shipley Excerpts

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 28th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Framlingham (Con)]

I spoke very briefly in Committee in support of this amendment, and I would like to do the same again now. I have no shares in pubs but, like many Members of your Lordships’ House, I have made a considerable investment in a number of pubs over the years and continue to do so.

I understand the points that the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, makes in an accountancy sense and a clinical sense. Of course, they are true. He talked about people drinking at home, which people are doing more of, as we know—but this is not about people drinking at home; it is about people drinking with other people, in the community, and all that brings to the community. It is not just about drinking anymore. I think of my local pub, which has wi-fi and excellent food—not just fish and chips on Friday, although it does that very well. It has an art gallery behind it and all sorts of things, including pub quizzes, of course. It is a major hub in the community and would be hugely missed.

I am sure that in your Lordships’ House we all have memories of pubs and pubs we currently use. They are a uniquely British institution. We are losing them too fast anyway and surely we should do anything we can to hang on to those that we have. There are good reasons why we might have some difficulties in keeping them open, but they are a uniquely British institution and this amendment is a very sensible one. I hope that the Minister feels minded to accept it.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I agree very much with what the noble Lord, Lord Framlingham, has just said. There is a big problem. The facts are these: more than 20 pubs are closing every week, and 2,000 pubs have been listed as assets of community value, but around another 40,000 have not been listed and, currently, have permitted development rights applied to them. As the London Borough of Wandsworth has demonstrated, it is possible for local authorities to use Article 4 directives on pubs, but that is a very complex process—and certainly in this respect far too complex for most areas.

I puzzled over the question of whether, if you have 2,000 pubs listed as assets of community value, there is actually a problem. If 2,000 community organisations can make a proposal for their pub to be listed, the process seems to work fairly well. However, there is another way of looking at that, which is the view that I take, which is that if communities feel that it is necessary to list 2,000 pubs as assets of community value, there is clearly a problem that needs to be solved, because 2,000 is a very large number. Of course, we have now experienced the fact that, despite 2,000 pubs being registered, large numbers have not been listed and have been lost. The solution is simply a minor amendment to the law to end permitted development rights and to require that any proposed change to a pub should secure planning permission. It is a simple remedy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, this speech will be shorter than that given by the noble Lord, Lord Young, and this speaker is, of course, somewhat shorter than him. I congratulate him on incorporating the two amendments which I had intended to move, Amendments 59 and 60, although I note that there was no attribution in his speaking on the matters which substantially cover them. Nevertheless, I am grateful to him for his clear exposition of all these amendments, for the adoption of the two that I would have spoken to and for clearly listening to the comments, criticisms and suggestions from around the House. I am happy to endorse those matters and I will not move the amendments in my name.

[Lord Shipley]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for all that he said about compulsory purchase, both temporary and non-temporary. I think that his comments demonstrate the role of scrutiny and the value of this Chamber. I had a great deal to say on compulsory purchase in Committee but now I have virtually nothing at all to say because the matter has been resolved. It demonstrates the importance of talking with expert practitioners. Perhaps I should also repeat what I said in Committee about the large number of government amendments regarding compulsory purchase although the Bill had come to us from the House of Commons as a finished Bill. In this respect at least—but also on the planning side, as we know—it did not merit the status of a finished Bill. However, I am grateful to the Minister and his colleagues in the department for all the work that they have done. As far as I am concerned, we now have a Bill—assuming that all the amendments are adopted—that will make the statutory position a great deal clearer. I shall say something further when we come on to the question of Henry VIII powers, because some powers will still apply to this part of the Bill. For the moment, however, I have nothing further to add.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

My Lords, I am pleased that the Minister has wisely responded to the concerns expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and others. I congratulate her on her efforts and successful attempts to draw attention to the mischief of Clause 40. In its original form, it was a manifestly unacceptable provision —indeed, a quite extraordinary clause. I remind your Lordships that it said that by regulations the Minister may “make such provision” as the Minister,

“considers appropriate in consequence of any provision of this Act”,

and that the provision that the Minister may make included amending, repealing or revoking any enactment —any primary or secondary legislation.

Your Lordships’ Constitution Committee, of which I am a member, has regularly drawn attention to the constitutional impropriety of such broad Henry VIII clauses. Clause 40 should never have been tabled in that form. I added my name to Amendment 68 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, which would leave out that clause, because of my concern at the constitutional impropriety. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, added his name for the same reason, as he explained in Grand Committee.

The wording in the amendment is much more acceptable. As the Minister indicated, it is confined to consequential regulations, not regulations that are, in the view of the Minister, appropriate in consequence of the Act. I have no doubt that a court would hold Ministers to that objective test. The new wording is also confined, as he said, to provisions consequential on this part of the Bill.

I am therefore grateful to the Minister for tempering the wish of the Executive to take broad powers to amend primary legislation. I hope he will communicate to his ministerial colleagues that noble Lords are focused on this subject and that if Ministers again bring forward broad Henry VIII clauses such as Clause 40, we will put down amendments and, if necessary, divide the House.

[Lord Shipley]

My Lords, I add my thanks to the Minister for the proposed changes. The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has said what I was going to say and I will not repeat it. The change of wording in the amendment is significant because, as he indicated, it is no longer the case that the Secretary of State has the power to consider something “appropriate”. Rather, he can make provision in consequence of any provision in this part of the Bill. This is much better. Henry VIII powers should never have been applied to the planning chapters of the Bill.

I said earlier that compulsory purchase is indeed complicated and I accept that consequential provision may be needed, which can be taken quickly if there is found to be a further flaw in the legislation that Parliament passes. That said, I seek the Minister’s confirmation that the wording now being used in relation to compulsory purchase is the standard wording used in other Bills. It has been said that there is a power in recent planning Acts for Ministers to make consequential provision. We need to be clear about that and that we are not doing something in the amendment that has not been in any other Bill or Act. I understand that to be the position but would be keen to hear the Minister confirm that there is nothing unusual in the wording of the amendment.

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the Minister and, indeed, in congratulating him on these substantive changes, which are ultimately, I suppose, a concession to the powerful arguments advanced, in particular by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and other Members across the House.

It would have been good to see a similar approach from Ministers when we discussed the Housing and Planning Bill at great length last year. It is not a personal criticism of them; the Minister at that time, the noble Baroness, was not allowed to move in the direction in which Ministers on this Bill have been able to move, which I very much welcome.

For clarification, may I assume that my Amendments 71 and 75 are effectively covered by the welcome amendments that the Government have brought forward? That is right, and that is a repetition in the case of the previous amendments. However, I am not entirely clear about Amendment 67 in my name, which requires the Secretary of State to consult the Welsh Ministers before making regulations under Section 38. That proposal was dismissed on the previous occasion, although it had been a matter of strong concern to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, to which the Government’s official response was extremely negative. I do not know whether the Minister can offer any assurance that, whether or not is contained in the amendment, the Government will consult Welsh Ministers. There was rather a general statement that this happens automatically. The purpose of including it in the Bill was to make sure that more than just custom and practice would apply in this case. It would therefore be helpful if the Minister indicated whether the government amendments cover my amendment or, in the event that they do not, whether he will again confirm explicitly that there will be consultation with Welsh Ministers before making regulations under Section 38. It would be preferable to include that in the Bill but, at the very least, a ministerial assurance would carry some weight. In those circumstances, if that were the position, I would withdraw my amendment.

Homelessness Reduction Bill

Lord Shipley Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 24th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and to pay tribute to her work to stop human trafficking. I am the 12th speaker in the debate and I am pleased to note that the first 11 have all been strongly supportive of the Bill. I should remind the House that I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association. The debate has demonstrated the wide expertise and experience in this House, which has been brought to the fore in the detail on the clauses of the Bill. It is a vitally important Bill and I too pay tribute to Bob Blackman MP, the noble Lord, Lord Best, and the Government for their support, to the charities and the voluntary sector, and all those who have undertaken such an enormous amount of work to make this Bill what it is. It has benefited from a lot of scrutiny before it reached your Lordships’ House. That has come through in terms of the clarity with which the policy changes are proposed. The Bill rightly identifies the importance of extending more help to homeless single people, and seeks to do something practical about the problems caused by Section 21 notices.

We have heard a great deal about the large number of voluntary organisations that assist to ameliorate homelessness and I was particularly pleased to hear the comments of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark, who mentioned Street Pastors. In the early hours of a Saturday morning a few weeks ago I accompanied the Street Pastors in Newcastle upon Tyne in order to meet those who were sleeping rough. Two things struck me. The first was that the rate of rough sleeping in the city was clearly rising, and the second was that a number of those who were sleeping rough had recently been discharged from prison. We heard earlier about those who have left the Armed Forces, and it should not be the case that people are discharged from an institution and have nowhere to go.

We have seen the impact of this problem both in the numbers of those sleeping rough and in the Government’s own homelessness figures, which show that in December there were nearly 75,000 households in temporary accommodation, including 125,000 children who were homeless at Christmas. Three-quarters of the households in temporary accommodation are in London, but it is a general problem nevertheless. I am particularly pleased that the Government have recognised this, and I pay tribute to the work that Ministers have been doing. It is hugely helpful to have a sense of common purpose on an issue as important as this.

Much has been said in the course of the debate about why homelessness is rising. My noble friend Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope and most other speakers identified the consequences of the reform of welfare, some of which were forecast, I have to say. It is clear that the welfare reforms have had an impact. We have not been building enough homes for social rent in this country. I think that the housing White Paper may help in that regard and I am pleased that the Government seem to have altered course. It is pretty evident to me and to most noble Lords that it is vital to build more homes which people can rent at a social rent, because otherwise it is very difficult to see how homelessness will be reduced.

Falling security for private tenants has been a factor as well. I was particularly concerned to hear during the debate that this may get more difficult unless the supply of homes increases. Of course, we have had the impact on supported housing. We heard from a number of speakers that it has made it more difficult for a number of voluntary organisations and housing associations to manage supported housing. This is a question that successive Governments have not faced up to: a recent report by the Chartered Institute of Housing pointed out that the Government are investing some £45 billion in housing up to 2020-21, but only £2 billion, or 4% of that, is for housing below market rent. There is a very big strategic issue here for the Government to address: subsidy is going into owner-occupation, which is understandable in many ways, but I believe that the Government have got the balance wrong. We need to give extra support to social rented housing.

Quite a lot has been said about the costs of homelessness. The issue for local government around the initial costs of prevention is clear and evident and will become more evident over the two years of monitoring. Can local authorities manage to fulfil the terms of the Bill? I very much hope that they do and they all need to try. Evidence from Wales shows that the Housing (Wales) Act 2014 has led to a 69% reduction in the number of households owed the main homeless duty. If figures of that scale can be produced it indicates that if the public sector invests properly we will save money later. I commend what has happened in Wales and I hope that, with the huge financial burden which is about to occur in London, for example, which has some three-quarters of homelessness, the investment will enable savings to be generated further down the line.

Very close monitoring is important. Crisis’s research is impressive and indicates that public spending could fall by around £370 million in England if 40,000 people were prevented from homelessness for one year. These are very large sums of public spending. I mentioned the importance of close monitoring of what happens over the next two years. A number of noble Lords talked about this. The noble Baroness, Lady Grender, reminded us, in her closely argued case on statistics, that we have to understand the numbers. They have to be right or it is very difficult to draw conclusions. I pay tribute to her work on letting agents’ fees: that is equally helpful in assisting those, particularly in the private sector, having to move very frequently who have been confronted by regular payment of letting agents’ fees.

The contributions of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Rochester and the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong of Hill Top, stressed the importance of all councils engaging with the voluntary sector and brought together the issue of local working. It is vital that all public agencies work strongly together to deliver the solution that we all want. I have two or three very brief final comments. I was very struck when reading the Bill by the amount of written correspondence that there is going to be as local authorities are required to do more for individuals. That is essential. One consequence of that will be an increasing role for advocacy, and the voluntary sector may have a key role in helping. There will be a need for advocacy support in terms of personal planning, reading and writing letters for those who are disadvantaged. I very much hope that part of the monitoring will relate to how individuals are helped, because official procedures can be daunting.

The issue of co-ordination between the DWP and DCLG was mentioned several times. It is difficult when different Whitehall departments have different objectives. The noble Lord, Lord Best, reminded us that cuts to housing support can prevent the help that individuals need. I entirely support his call for the freeze on the local housing allowance to cease. I wish the Bill speedy progress through this House. It is not a solution on its own but it is part of the solution. I finish with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Bird, who said, “At last, there is a mechanism for embracing prevention”. I think those are probably the most important words we have heard in the last two hours, because the mechanism contained in the Bill will enable many other things to happen.