Chancel Repair (Church Commissioners’ Liability) Measure

Lord Scriven Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not know whether it is appropriate for me to contribute, but I feel I must. I was also part of the committee coming to the conclusion that the noble and learned Baroness has just mentioned. My degree in theology at Cambridge clearly did not fit me for understanding the complexities of land tenure in parish churches, but I just wished—I know that this is a silly thing to say—that all the chancels in Methodist churches that I know about could have been included in the Measure being put forward.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I wish to follow on the noble Lord’s last comment: of course they would not, because the Methodist Church is not the established Church. That is why we are discussing this issue: because it is the established Church. I think that most people watching this—I declare my interest as a member of the National Secular Society—will be surprised that, in 2025, we have to debate this based on the established Church and the archaic nature of one Church in this land.

I appreciate that the right reverend Prelate has to come and speak to this Measure because of the position that the established Church is in and the privilege that the Bishops sometimes get to be able to plead to Parliament about some special interest for the established Church, but I wish to place on record not just my voice but that of many people. The very fact that we have an established Church and these archaic rules means that this Parliament has to take this up. It would be better, eventually, for the Church to be disestablished and to be in control of its own rules and laws and not subject to the need for Parliament and parliamentary time.

[The Lord Bishop of Chichester]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the comments that have been made, and I am especially grateful for the interest and support of Methodists, who view the matter from a different perspective. Perhaps I may comment on the place of the Church of England in the history of the land. We are very aware of being the stewards of a large part of this nation’s history. Much of it is invested in the physicality of our church buildings, and I regard this process as one in which we are transparent and accountable for how we discharge that responsibility, so I hope that this will not be regarded as time that is wasted.