Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Friday 21st November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

My Lords, in the circumstances, I do not feel that we can justify more than two hours on this group. I think we should move to wind up this debate.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Committee stage
Friday 14th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, bearing in mind that this is a Private Member’s Bill, it seems to me, as an Englishwoman, that whatever efforts are required, we should be, at the end of the day, removing Wales from it.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

My Lords, in my modest experience of six departments in both Houses of Parliament, I have always come to the conclusion and repeated that Whitehall does not do devolution. By the way, I declare an interest: I live in England but within 10 miles of the border of Wales. Therefore, I commend the noble Lord, Lord Harper, on raising this in a practical fashion that probably nobody else in the House is able to do. I doubt that Members of Parliament in the other place had the opportunity to raise it in detail, because there will be MPs running on both sides of the border. I commend him on raising it, and I resent the fact that he was interrupted at the end.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Coffey, in raising this question. Whether or not the suggestion from the noble Baroness, Lady Coffey, is the right way of addressing this issue is genuinely a moot point. But she is absolutely right to raise the whole question of the fitness for purpose of the Bill, given the nature of our devolution settlement.

I speak with a modicum of experience. For just over four years, I was the Conservative Government’s Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, responsible for seeking to make the devolution settlement work at a time when we obviously had a party of one colour in government in Westminster and parties of very different complexions in Belfast, Cardiff and Edinburgh. Prior to that, as Secretary of State for Justice, Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, I had to navigate the thickets of our devolution settlement.

It requires care to make it work. In order to do so, we have to take account of conventions, of legislative competences, of precedents and, as my noble friend Lord Harper pointed out, of the interwoven nature of the lives of communities that live on our borders. It is absolutely right that we should do so, both as a revising Chamber and as a revising Chamber considering legislation of such moment.

As everyone has pointed out during the passage of the Bill, strong feelings are engaged on every side. If we are thinking about fundamentally changing the responsibility of the state and our NHS when it comes to the balance between alleviating pain, prolonging life and, in certain circumstances, ending life, then we must proceed with care.

It was the explicit wish of many in the House of Commons, including in Committee, that the Bill takes seriously the operation of the legislation—so it is not finicky, an abdication of responsibility or something to be criticised when raising these specific and precise questions. It is our role.

Of course, many of us recognise, whatever our feelings on the Bill, that the House of Commons clearly gave its express wish that those who are living with a condition that means that their life will soon end in any circumstances should be able to choose the timing and manner of their death. I respect that clearly expressed wish. Some of us may take a different view about that imperative sent to us from the House of Commons as a matter of first principle, but all of us have a responsibility to look at how the legislation operates, because we are not in the business of simply recognising and respecting a sentiment, no matter how sincere; we are in the business of introducing legislation that must work and be made to work. Therefore, it is our responsibility in the days ahead to look in detail.

That is why I make no apology for specifically referring to the operation of the Sewel convention. Introduced by Lord Sewel of Gilcomstoun, a fellow Aberdonian and a former Labour Minister, it is a convention that broadly governs how we and the Government should legislate with respect to devolved matters. The Sewel convention makes clear that the Government should not normally legislate in areas that are strictly devolved without the full consent of the devolved legislative chambers—the Senedd Cymru, the Holyrood Scottish Parliament or the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Because it is a convention, of course it is the right of Westminster—Westminster is ultimately sovereign—to legislate without that consent. But the broad convention, on which the success of our devolution sentiment rests, is that that should be exercised only sparingly. This point was made very well and repeatedly by the promoter of the Bill in this House himself, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer. On a variety of occasions in the past, when the Government of which I was part sought to legislate in a way that may have caused disquiet or opposition in devolved legislatures, he has pointed out the importance of the Sewel convention, and he is not alone in doing so.

The former Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, in a report commissioned by the current Prime Minister in the other place on the operation of the Sewel convention, recommended that the Sewel convention be made justiciable and that it should be the case that it should move from a constitutional convention to be a legislative part of our constitution. The Government have not yet taken that step, but it is the stated intention and policy of the Government to ensure that, if one did choose to legislate without the consent of a devolved legislature, that would be capable of challenge in the courts, which it is not yet.

In stressing the importance of making sure that we proceed with care, I am doing no more than expressing not just my experience of how important it is to respect the devolved sentiment but my acknowledgement of the direction of travel that the Government had set out with their belief in making the devolved settlement work better.

The point has been made that our devolved settlement with regard to Wales is complex, and indeed it is, as a number of noble Lords have pointed out. Crime and justice are not devolved, but health is. But again, even in the area of crime and justice, there is no settled will.

I participated in the convention looking at the future of the constitution with regard to Welsh devolution, led by the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Williams of Oystermouth—Rowan Williams. In it, he made the case—I believe it is a case that exercises the sympathy of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd—

Soft Drinks Industry Levy

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I understand why the noble Lord raises this: he, like me, wishes to reduce obesity rates. Although the soft drinks industry levy is showing success, it is much harder, as he will be aware, to apply the same in respect of food, simply because of its formulation: there is no other sugar in soft drinks beforehand, whereas there is in food. Although I understand the pressure to do this, and we continue to do more, it is not quite as straightforward to draw the direct comparisons, as I know he understands.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

I remind my noble friend that the voluntary system for the reduction of salt, which was organised by the Food Standards Agency before I joined it, was so successful that the World Health Organization held its international conference in London in 2010 because it had been so successful on a voluntary basis. Of course, this was before the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, removed nutrition from the Food Standards Agency. The voluntary system can work substantially.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My noble friend is right: voluntary schemes can indeed work well. In addition to crediting my noble friend for his work with the Food Standards Agency, I can tell your Lordships’ House that voluntary reformulation has encouraged sugar reduction by around 15% in cereals, 13% in yoghurts and 29% in milk-based drinks, and contributed to a reduction in salt intake. Of course more can be done to improve everyday food and drink, and we continue to work by whatever means necessary and within all sectors of industry to do just that.

Bread and Flour Regulations 1998

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Rooker]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, further to the answer by Baroness Merron on 11 September (HL Deb col 1562), whether it remains their intention to lay regulations before Parliament to amend the Bread and Flour Regulations 1998 in 2024.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Baroness Merron) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be able to say that, a month ago, this Government laid the legislation to introduce the mandatory fortification of non-wholemeal wheat flour with folic acid. We are the first European country to do so, providing pregnant women with protection for their unborn babies from neural tube defects and the devastating impact on families. I pay great tribute to my noble friend and many others in this House who have championed this momentous intervention over a number of years.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Will she formally thank the Opposition, who spent six years saying no and five years organising the consultations that have led to this decision—just a few minutes ago, I was looking at four Ministers who had answered Questions on this? I do not want to be too negative but, in the department’s extensive press release on the day it published the regulations, why was there not a single reference, even in footnotes, to the Medical Research Council’s work of 1991, which over 80 countries have already followed? Has the Secretary of State picked up the phone to talk to Nicholas Wald, the research scientist who led that work in 1991, which has been followed by so many countries and now, belatedly but welcomely, by his own country, the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I am glad my noble friend welcomes the announcement that I am making today. With respect to any phone calls made by the Secretary of State, I will gladly find out; I certainly cannot comment at this Dispatch Box. I thank previous Ministers and officials who, over the years, have contributed to where we are. In respect of the delay, all I can say is that I am very glad to be the Minister announcing it today.

Food and Drink Industry: Processed Sugar

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I certainly expect that it will be hard-hitting and helpful. The committee was of course appointed to consider the role of foods, including ultra-processed foods—something which has been of great interest to noble Lords—foods that are high in fat, salt and sugar, and their impact on a healthy diet and tackling obesity. I certainly look forward to the recommendations of the report, and I hope that we can surprise the noble Baroness in a good way with our response.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

Can I remind my noble friend that, in 2010, when the World Health Organization held a major conference on reducing sugar, it held it in London for the very reason that the Food Standards Agency, on a voluntary basis with industry, had reduced the consumption of sugar by 50%? It was at that very time, of course, that the coalition Government removed nutrition from the Food Standards Agency and took it back behind closed doors into the Department of Health. It is time to go back to the attitude of openness and transparency on this.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I certainly agree with my noble friend that openness and transparency will take us a long way, not only in this regard but in many others.

Bread and Flour Regulations 1998

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Rooker]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to update the Bread and Flour Regulations 1998.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Baroness Merron) (Lab)]

My Lords, although work on reviewing the Bread and Flour Regulations was paused due to the general election, I can assure my noble friend that I have picked this up as a personal priority. We have spoken to the devolved Governments about laying legislation later this year and I will update noble Lords on progress in the very near future.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for her Answer. On 16 May, the previous Government said that the regulations for England would come forward in July, on the basis of an agreement with the four nations and the four Chief Medical Officers. There really should be no delay; this could be picked up, like other Bills are being picked up, and be done quite quickly. Is my noble friend aware of the Written Answer I received on 23 July, when I asked about the reform of the Bread and Flour Regulations? It said that it “could include” folic fortification. I want my noble friend to be more specific now than in that Written Answer and give a specific commitment that this Government will do the folic fortification of flour, as agreed by all the consultations and the previous Governments.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My noble friend has been a tremendous campaigner. Indeed, he reminded me that this is, I believe, his 22nd Question on this matter, so I do not wish to test his patience. I absolutely assure him that, as he said, the policy is being taken forward as a UK-wide measure and all the necessary preliminary legislative steps have been taken, including the public consultations he mentioned, which were reported on earlier this year. Subject to renewed collective agreement in England, Defra will lay legislation later in 2024.

NHS Blood and Transplant Service: Blood Stocks

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Tuesday 30th July 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Rooker]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the response by donors to the national alert regarding low levels of blood stocks issued by NHS Blood and Transplant Service.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and I declare that, until my late 70s, I was a regular donor, which stopped when I met with chemotherapy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Baroness Merron) (Lab)]

My Lords, there has been an excellent response from altruistic donors since NHS Blood and Transplant issued an amber alert for O-group blood on 25 July. I thank everyone who has booked an appointment and who has already donated, because they will have helped save up to three lives each. Since Thursday, 25,000 new donors have registered, website traffic has increased almost fourfold and booked appointments have doubled. O-negative stocks have risen from 1.7 days to 2.9 days.

[Lord Rooker (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend. That Answer is excellent news, but volunteers have to be treated carefully. There are 800,000 of them. Can my noble friend tell me how many of the 25 donor clinics are open seven days a week? That is for the convenience of the donors. Secondly, why was it left until there were only 1.6 days of O-negative blood left before the alert was issued? Finally, what are the stocks of the special blood, of any group, that is required for newborn babies?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I will need to come back to my noble friend on that last question, but I assure your Lordships’ House that action was taken to increase the number of donors and the supply of the necessary blood even before the alert was announced. An alert creates better conditions, because more people come forward and rally. I thank them very much for that. On the donor centres, it is possible, of course, to give blood every day of the year apart from Christmas Day.