Israel-Hamas War: Diplomacy

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 12th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, should Hamas release all the hostages and lay down its weapons, and should the terrorists who perpetrated the appalling atrocities on 7 October flee to the Gulf to live in luxury hotels with their leaders, would there not be an immediate ceasefire? Peace might be able to come. We could then decide some long-term political future for the Palestinians and the Israelis.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that as a first step, as I have said, the hostages must be released. It is a no-brainer, as far as I am concerned. Those people were taken, so that will be a vital first step. The other issue to recognise is that we have proscribed Hamas as a terrorist group. It is for Hamas to choose its pathway. Does it want to put down weapons and talk peace? Then say so and put that offer on the table. I alluded earlier to being in Qatar. We are seized of ensuring that, in every country, we deliver the vital messages to those who have influence over Hamas. Given the priority of releasing the hostages and bringing a cessation to the violence we are seeing, Hamas needs to lay down its weapons and say that it no longer wishes to continue to attack Israeli interests.

Russia: Sanctions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate talked about the impact of sanctions. I can share with him that sanctions are having a direct impact. On revenues alone, they have left Russia’s budget in deficit, rather than the surplus that the Russian Government themselves predicted for 2022. Russia has suffered an annual deficit of £47 billion, the second highest of the post-Soviet era. Russia’s energy revenues fell 47% in the first half of this year. At the same time, global oil prices are lower. Less immediately visible, but more importantly in the long-term, more than 1,000 foreign businesses have left Russia, along with thousands of high-skilled workers. More continues to be done, as we co-ordinate and work with other countries. Particularly notable recently is that Armenia, Turkey and Kazakhstan have taken action on the issue of supply chains, which the right reverend Prelate raised. That kind of co-ordination is important if we are going to make these sanctions work across the piece.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, on targeted sanctions, the oligarchs who make up the inner circle around Putin, and the huge number of people who have property here, have almost invariably made their money by nefarious means—they must have done, because 30 years ago there was no private capital in Russia. Could my noble friend the Minister give us an update on how many oligarchs are having their property—and whatever else—put into suspension so that we can confiscate and use it to rebuild Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend that we all want—I think I speak for the whole House—to get Russia to pay for its war on Ukraine. At the time of the invasion, the UK sanctioned 129 oligarchs who have a combined net worth of around £145 billion. As I said earlier, we have frozen £18 billion-worth of Russian assets under the regime. The UK has also set up specialist agencies in the NCA and, as I said earlier, we are working with key partners. Legal hurdles need to be addressed, but we are not doing that alone—other partner countries are also looking to allow those assets, now that they are frozen, to be moved across. Ultimately, when the war ends, we can use the money from those assets in the reconstruction of Ukraine.

Soft Power

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the Minister for South Asia, among other areas, I am directly involved in some of the important work we are doing to strengthen our partnership with India, for example, as well as other south Asian countries, and education is a key component of that. I assure the noble Lord that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office is very proud of our educational offer to international students and equally proud of the programmes we run, such as the Chevening scholarships and the Commonwealth scholarships, which are part and parcel of our overall educational offer. I stand by the fact that the UK has been, continues to be and should remain a key place for any student wishing to come to the UK, because our educational institutions, with which many noble Lords are involved, are second to none.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, the world has changed rather dramatically in the two years since the publication of this review. I know that the Minister is not directly responsible, but could he go back and ask the Foreign Secretary to lobby for an immediate review of the review, because we must spend more on defence? Funnily enough, I think that is what President Zelensky said yesterday, and everybody said, “Hear, hear”. Well, I say “Hear, hear” to that. We need to have hard power as well as soft power.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

And I say to my noble friend that I hear him, and I hear him again. I assure him that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is seized of the very points he has just made.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, Russia is not winning. The noble Lord talked about training conscripts. We have seen images: when Russia imposed this conscription on its citizens, they fled to the borders. We have seen reports in the media today of so-called trained people having been sent to the front line with equipment that is not just dated but pretty redundant in terms of its use. That is a sign of real desperation. Of course, Ukraine, with the unity of support, including military support, that we have seen from across the world, is making gains and getting back its territory. I put it to the noble Lord—we have had these exchanges before—that if someone occupies your back garden, then your conservatory and then your back room, are you going to say, “It’s okay, let’s negotiate”? I do not think so.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, in the light of what is an existential threat not just to Ukraine but to the long-term peace, security and future of the European continent and, I suggest, the world, the Government are to be congratulated on what they have done in giving support and material to the Ukrainians.

However—I will choose my words carefully—does my noble friend the Minister not agree that it is absolutely extraordinary that, after eight months of war and depleting our missile stocks, that we are not spending more money on defence and are not even talking about it? The integrated defence review is out of date. Defence is like an insurance policy: you spend money on it and have to pay your premiums. If you do not pay them, guess what? The insurance policy does not work.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Again, my noble friend has a lot of experience in the field. I pay tribute to how he has represented our nation. I listen very carefully to his contributions. Not only will I ensure that I take that back to the department but I agree with him: our defence capabilities are a cornerstone of our international presence around the world. We need to have a strong defence at home and when supporting our international partners, as we are doing in Ukraine.

Russia and Ukraine: Settlement

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it has been very important to show unity of purpose and unity of action. The noble Lord mentions the role of sanctions. As he said—I believe this passionately—the sanctions have worked because, where one country or region has led in front of others, we have co-ordinated and worked together. Those sanctions are hurting Russia, Mr Putin, the Russian Government and all those who support them. It is important that we retain them. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said—I am in total agreement with him—any negotiation must be led by Ukraine and it is the job of any ally, partner or friend to be firmly behind Ukraine.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Your Lordships will know that, in 1938, France and the United Kingdom imposed on Czechoslovakia a deal that they had come to with the Third Reich. This is not a good precedent. The Government have rightly been praised from both sides for their actions on Ukraine. Can my noble friend assure me that we are talking to our allies, in particular France and Germany, to ensure that they do not try to impose their own settlement on Ukraine? It must be the Ukrainians who lead; we support them.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend. The Government are engaging at the top level. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister engages regularly with President Zelensky on the principles that he has articulated. Let us be clear: President Zelensky has said “Let’s meet” directly to Mr Putin. It is important that we get behind his efforts.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 30th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is of course right. We have seen that the scenarios that were perhaps envisaged in Moscow have played out very differently in Ukraine, and recent announcements have reflected that. However, I add a massive note of caution. Notwithstanding what is happening on the ground to the Russian forces, the Russian military is, nevertheless, very well equipped and there may be alternatives. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, talked about Mariupol; we have seen what has happened through the use of missiles and their indiscriminate destruction. That cannot be ruled out in any shape or form. Of course, any peace negotiation is rightly being led directly by the Ukrainians and President Zelensky. We fully support his efforts and are in close co-ordination and contact with His Excellency the President, Foreign Minister Koluba and others. Noble Lords will be aware of various initiatives that are taking place.

On the issue of scenarios playing out, we have not reached that point yet. I briefed members of the Council of Europe yesterday, and it was very evident that, at some point in time, it will be about not just Ukraine but the impact of the sanctions. It is right that we have acted in co-ordination. But our battle is not with the people of Russia; they are also suffering. Whatever emerges in Russia—one hopes that the voices of democracy and inclusion will be strengthened there—there will be a need at some point to look towards what this means for Russia, its economy and, most importantly, its people.

I did not answer one point on Mariupol and Aleppo. I have had that scenario painted to me, as with other conflicts, and I will say two things on it. First, the noble Baroness will have seen our announcement on Afghanistan today—we are hosting a donor conference. One should not compare and contrast human suffering; it is important that we stand firm in our support for those who suffer through conflict. Aleppo is our conflict, as is Mariupol, and we must look at them through that lens.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

First, I commend the Government for their speedy and effective reaction to this crisis, praised by President Zelensky over and above many of our allies, including our European ones.

Secondly, the Statement says:

“Strength is the only thing Putin understands.”


Unfortunately, that is incorrect: he also understands weakness, which is why he had the Germans and others over a barrel over their dependence on Russian gas. He looks at us and sees that, as we speak, we are reducing our Army by 11% and reducing the number of our aircraft and ships. Could the Minister go back to the Government and say that the integrated defence review needs revisiting?

Thirdly, I am delighted to see that we have sanctioned the Wagner Group—however it is pronounced—but could he please assure me that the security services are looking into its funding? I have heard some very distressing tales about funding by foreign Governments who are not Russian.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s final point, in any sanctions we of course look at a full range of factors to determine who we sanction. We are dynamic in our response, looking at the implications of any sanctions that we have imposed and wider ones that need to apply. I hear very clearly my noble friend’s comments on our defence, but, of course, in advance of this conflict we increased defence spending. Nevertheless, conflicts such as these bring in an important consideration of ensuring that our integrated review and its outcomes are applicable and relevant to the world as we see it today.

Russia: Sanctions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I alluded to the expertise and insights in your Lordships’ House, and perhaps I should be posing this question to the noble and gallant Lord, who has great insight. The activities of the Russian state and those supported by the Russian state already include such things as the noble Lord alluded to. That has seen some action being taken by the United Kingdom and our key allies and partners. What is very clear is that the physical movement of troops—again, the noble and gallant Lord will know this far better than I—is a real statement of what may come next. To just pass it off as military manoeuvres when the whole of the eastern borders of Ukraine have over 100,000 Russian troops in occupancy is a great cause for concern. Therefore, what we are seeking to do through the Statement, and, importantly, through the widening of legislation and action—be it economic action—is to demonstrate to Russia the real willingness of the alliance and our partners within NATO and Europe to stand up against such further aggression.

As I said, eight years ago Crimea was annexed illegally. No further attempts were made to withdraw troops. I went to Ukraine before Christmas, and saw the anxiety. The massing of troops in Belarus, not that far from Kiev, is causing particular concern, and it is important that we make Statements accordingly. However, behind those Statements must be concerted action.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, following on from what the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said, when the Soviet Union collapsed just over 30 years ago, people had very little private property. Within a decade, some people had riches beyond the dreams of avarice. Some of that was made legitimately, but a great deal was assets of the Russian state looted by gangsters. A lot of that money then came here. Why are we not pursuing unexplained wealth orders on these people? They have all the money in plain sight and we should be pursuing them now.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I praise my noble friend’s impeccable timing, as my dear and noble friend Lady Williams is sitting to my right. My noble friend talked about the issue of these unexplained wealth orders and we have acted. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked earlier about the detail. The same applies for sanctions or any other step that we may take. There is a positive, in that even those with the most sinister motives have, within the United Kingdom, the rule of law. We need to ensure that, whether we are talking of these orders or of sanctions, due process is followed, and with a robustness which allows those sanctions or orders to prevail. The Home Office takes this very seriously, as does the Home Secretary. I assure my noble friend that we will act accordingly.

Ukraine: Minsk II Protocol

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, NATO is a defensive alliance. It was interesting to hear in the recent Statement of my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary—this is relevant to what we are discussing—that only 1/16th of the Russian border is actually shared with a NATO country. NATO is a defensive alliance, and it remains so. It is serving its purpose. We are working in unity, because what is required now is not just unity of words —it is unity of purpose and, indeed, unity of action.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I have just been to a meeting with the Ukrainian ambassador, where we discussed the Budapest memorandum. These were assurances given by the Russian Federation in 1994 that it would respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, which, of course, included the borders with Crimea. Putin has reneged on this. Should the international community not come together and condemn this bad faith from Putin and now the Russian Federation, and do it both at the United Nations and elsewhere?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that what we have seen from Russia is pure aggression. We should not forget that it is an occupying power in Crimea. We have come together; we are acting together within the context of the NATO alliance. My noble friend importantly points to discussions at the UN, and I assure him that we are engaging directly with partners but also bilaterally with Russia.

Russia: Gas Supplies

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 10th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the specific point about Nord Stream 2, our position is consistent: we believe that it destabilises the continent of Europe due to its reliance on it. Recent events have also indicated its heavy reliance on a single source of supply and the insecurity that that can bring. We are working with key partners on this issue, but we are very clear on what our position is.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I should declare a sort of interest, in that that nice man Mr Putin has banned me from going to Russia. I think the Government accept how serious the situation is, but the Minister should know that Putin will judge us by our actions, not our words. So does he think it is sensible for the United Kingdom at the moment to be reducing its Army by 11% and reducing the number of its surface warships and aircraft, or does he think that President Putin will look at us and say that that shows weakness?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s first point, I will be sure to relay that to the Prime Minister and raise directly the concerns about him not being able to visit Russia. On the serious point about our military presence, as my noble friend will be aware, we have exercised our full support to Ukraine, including the deployment of vessels to the region in order to ensure security for international waters, and we strongly support the Ukrainian position on territorial sovereignty and integrity.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord articulates the position very clearly; we should not focus on seeking to join the two issues. We do not believe that there is any reason for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe to be detained in Iran, which is why we continue to implore the Iranians to ensure her early release and continue to campaign on that very principle.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, we cannot join these two things together, but this is about a hostage who has been taken. If she is released for some money, there will be another issue and the Iranians will take another hostage for another reason.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend articulates the position very well and I agree with him.

China: Muslims

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 16th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, I am fully cognisant of the suppression of freedom of religion or belief in Xinjiang and more widely in China, particularly as regards specific minorities, as the noble Baroness articulated. On organ harvesting, I have engaged directly with Sir Geoffrey Nice and, as noble Lords will be aware, have taken up the issue with the World Health Organization. We continue to monitor the situation. It remains the Government’s position that, if true, the practice of systematic state-sponsored organ harvesting would constitute a serious violation and an egregious abuse of human rights.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, the West has, sadly, very little influence over the policies of China, but we should recall the propaganda triumph that the Berlin Olympics of 1936 gave the Hitler regime, whereas the boycott of the Moscow Olympics in 1980 made them a somewhat damp squib. Could my noble friend encourage other ministries and, indeed, other countries, to look at boycotting the Winter Olympics in China next February?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as my noble friend is aware from his own insights and experience, I cannot comment specifically on any boycott of the Olympic Games; that is very much a matter for the independent Olympic committee. But I am sure everyone will consider the situation on the ground in any decisions that they make.

Ethiopia

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 15th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s first question about support from the UK, we have actually given £47.7 million since the start of the crisis. My honourable friend the Minister for Africa announced an additional £16.7 million yesterday. On the political crisis, the noble Lord is right of course—there is an election due. The challenge remains that many parties from within the region impacted are not participating. We continue to use all diplomatic levers to ensure access for full-party participation during the elections. I think there will be little movement on the political settlement until the election has been held.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I last visited the beautiful country of Ethiopia about 18 months ago, just before the pandemic. Now we find a third of a million people at risk of famine. Billions have been given in aid by the UK taxpayer, including some money via the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund. How much influence has our huge aid programme had in encouraging peace and stability in the region? Did our aid allow any money from the Ethiopian Government to be diverted into armaments from health and education?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s second point, of course there are stringent measures in place to ensure that development aid support is for the purposes intended. I believe it has had an impact on the ground, as 1.2 million children have gained a quality education. Of course we continue to have a positive impact; we support aid programmes in-country but, equally, the political situation is dire and we need to reassess what level of support we can give over the longer term to ensure opportunities for the people of Ethiopia.

NATO: Russia and Ukraine

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 15th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom’s nuclear deterrent, as well as working with our key allies, is reflective of the importance the United Kingdom attaches to the defence of Europe and the wider world. History has shown us that our independent deterrent has ensured that those who sabre-rattle know that there would be an extensive response from allies of the United Kingdom if they were to go down that route. That said, the deterrent has done exactly what it is intended to do. It has deterred further action and aggression, which no one wishes to see.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, President Putin is an authoritarian and dictatorial bully, and like all bullies, he senses weakness. He senses weakness in Nord Stream in Germany; he senses it, rightly or wrongly—I think probably wrongly—in the new President Biden in the United States; and he senses weakness when the United Kingdom reduces its Armed Forces, its aircraft, its ships and, above all, the size of its Army at this time. So, will my noble friend go back to our right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and get him to argue in Cabinet that to reduce the Armed Forces at the moment is a signal to bullies that we are not to be taken seriously?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I know my noble friend speaks from great insight and expertise about our Armed Forces, but I assure him that Her Majesty’s Government are fully committed to our Armed Forces, which is underlined by the additional funding that has been provided to the Ministry of Defence. On the broader issue of security, we stand firmly with our allies and in support of the NATO alliance. I suggest that with the new Administration in the United States we have seen a realignment and strengthening of that alliance.

Beijing Winter Olympic Games 2022

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the sentiments and the thrust of the noble Lord’s question: the onus should really be on an acceptance by all international committees of the UN Charter and the Declaration of Human Rights. The specific interaction is a question for another department, but I shall inquire and write to the noble Lord.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, anyone who doubts the propaganda use to which the Olympics can be put by an authoritarian regime should visit the astonishing, magnificent 1936 Olympic Stadium in Berlin, which is a monument to National Socialism, whereas the boycott—the partial boycott—of the Moscow Olympics in 1980 sent a strong signal to the Soviet Union. So I urge my noble friend to take away the message that we will actually be assisting the Chinese Government in their use of propaganda if we do not condemn the Chinese Government by not sending any Ministers or official representatives to the Olympics.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I have noted very carefully what my noble friend said. I have already alluded to the fact that we have not yet made any specific decisions, but the decisions and calls we have made about the human rights situation in China have been very clear.

EU Ambassador to the UK: Diplomatic Status

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 25th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

May I belatedly—I understand that he has been here for some months—welcome the EU ambassador to the United Kingdom, as I welcome the ambassadors of every EU member state? Obviously, though, there is now scope for duplication, because no one will be quite clear where the lines are delineated between the EU ambassador and the ambassadors of the nation states. Can my noble friend tell me which member states have approached the Foreign Office and said that they wish to reduce their representation in the United Kingdom because of the arrival of the EU ambassador?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the EU’s representation and that of EU member states is very much a matter for the European Union and those member states.

Ethiopia: Northern Tigray Region

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is right to raise those concerns. This too is part of the conversations that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has had with the Eritrean Government. They, of course, refute any such programmes or policy, but we continue to raise our concerns directly with them.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I first visited Ethiopia with the Commons International Development Committee. We had a long meeting with Meles Zenawi, who was very impressive, and was often described as Tony Blair’s favourite African dictator. He, of course, has been gone for many years. However, when I visited last year, although there was greater prosperity there was still grinding poverty. Can my noble friend assure me that henceforth, when we pour in billions and billions of pounds in aid, as we have done in Ethiopia, for humanitarian reasons and for education and health, we will also look at what is happening to the defence budgets of such countries? I am afraid that what has been happening is fungibility. We have been giving aid for education and health—they have been spending money on arms.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises an important point about transparency in development spending. That is why the new structure at the FCDO will pursue that very point, ensuring that development support is intended for those who are suffering, and gets directly to them.

China

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, the United Kingdom has been, is and will remain a place where people from all over the world seek asylum for a number of reasons. Each case is judged on its merits, and we have provided protection to many people across the world who have suffered persecution.

[Lord Robathan (Con) [V]]

My Lords, most of the 53 countries that supported Chinese security laws in the UN Human Rights Council were almost certainly either scared of Chinese power and its aggressive nature or had been bought; that particularly applies to countries in Africa and elsewhere with huge loans. We need to ensure that we in this country are not bought. I commend Her Majesty’s Government for being resolute and clear. However, do they have a policy on influencers in Britain, be they individuals or organisations such as Cambridge University—Jesus College is much in the news at the moment, being written about by Charles Moore—who are in the pay of either Chinese companies or receiving large grants from the Chinese Government?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I would be pleased if my noble friend could write specifically on the concerns he has raised. Of course it is concerning that some do not recognise the situation that has prevailed in Hong Kong or the suffering of the Uighurs, as well as that of other minorities in Xinjiang. It is important that we continue to focus on those. Those who defend or deny those actions need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

Hong Kong National Security Legislation

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I believe I have answered what the Government’s position is. I add that when it comes to important issues such as Covid-19 we therefore support Taiwan’s participation in international organisations where it can contribute to the global good. Nationhood is not a prerequisite for that, and a good example is its participation in the World Health Organization.

[Lord Robathan (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I commend the Minister in particular and the Government in general for their resolute stand and action on this hugely difficult issue. The message needs to get to the people of China, beyond the Government, that the Chinese Government are breaking international agreements and behaving badly; there is nothing Sinophobic in saying that. I suggest to my noble friend that we look at either restricting or ending visas for the tourists, students and businesspeople who come here. That may cost our universities and tourism some money but it is necessary to send a message to the Chinese people, particularly the growing middle class in China, that their Government are behaving incredibly badly.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

China, Chinese culture, Chinese people and Chinese business have played an important role globally and will continue to do so. Our challenge is not with the Chinese people but with the Administration in Beijing, and we will continue to make that case very forcefully. China continues to make important contributions. We have always welcomed Chinese students to the UK, and I believe that that has been a positive thing for both countries.

Korea

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 30th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to draw attention to the situation in North Korea on both the humanitarian and human rights front. Yes, the challenge remains to understand what support we can provide. Although we of course support sanctions, she will be aware that humanitarian support continues to be delivered through the UN avenues. We called on North Korea to make an assessment of its situation domestically on Covid-19 and allow support to its citizens.

[Lord Robathan (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as the Minister has acknowledged, the Korean War never really ended in 1953; indeed, it is still going on, with the actions from an erratic and hereditary autocrat who may or may not have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. The Minister mentioned support to allies. It is important that, when we support allies in the region and fellow democracies such as Japan and Australia—and, indeed, down in the South China Sea —we have the means to support them. I fear that we need to look closely at how much we are spending on defence, not because we want some conflict with North Korea—or, indeed, anyone else in the region—but because we must be taken seriously by countries such as North Korea.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, let me assure my noble friend that we take our role as part of the UN Command very seriously. Most recently on the specific issue of deployment and support, the Royal Navy deployed ships to the north-east Asia region in 2018, through HMS “Sutherland” and “Albion”, and in 2019, as my noble friend may be aware, through HMS “Enterprise”.

China

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 29th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness will be aware—I am sure she follows this—we have worked very closely with our European allies, including the likes of Germany and France. Allies remain allies: the noble Lord may not agree with me, but they do. We will continue to work also with others in the region. An earlier question pointed at the South China Sea. We work with other key partners, including the likes of Australia.

[Lord Robathan (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we are now faced with an authoritarian and expansionist regime in China, which is buying up Africa and elsewhere, and threatening our ally Australia, as we heard, and others. It is threatening Australia for the temerity of asking for an independent inquiry into Covid-19. We have to live with China, but we need to sup with a very long spoon. Will Her Majesty’s Government stand resolute with Australia, Hong Kong and others against the threatening and bullying behaviour of the Chinese regime?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as my noble friend will know, we are very clear-eyed in our relationship with China. He points out the important relationship that we have with the likes of Australia. We stand with Australia. It is a key partner through security and other, wider strategic interests in the region. He also mentioned Hong Kong. I have made the Government’s position on that quite clear.

Integrated Security, Defence and Foreign Policy Review

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 23rd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that the current crisis and the challenges it imposes have asked us to redefine all relationships. If there is one conclusion we can draw from where we are today—we are still on the cusp of the crisis here in the United Kingdom—it is the sheer interdependency of humanity. This crisis does not know borders, political differences or geographical space. It knows one thing: that it will affect us all in some shape or form, as we are seeing. Once we are over this crisis, it is important that, not just as a nation but collectively through international partners and the relationships we have, we learn lessons and share experiences so that when this kind of pandemic hits again, we are even better prepared.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, during the 2010 defence review I was working at the Ministry of Defence and it was said throughout that it was not Treasury-driven. I regret to tell noble Lords something they may not know: it was entirely Treasury-driven. At the moment, during the current crisis, I see on the front page of the Times calls for troops to go and help; sailors are going to be delivering food to prisons and the like. Will my noble friend pass on to the Government that with the geopolitical problems and the problems caused by the current crisis, now is not the time to even think of reducing the number of personnel that we need in the armed services?

Hong Kong

Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 15th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord, and think that it is right, whether we are talking about Hong Kong or anywhere else in the world, that medical professionals, when they are seeking to assist those injured, whatever the reason for the injury, are given unfettered access. As I have said on a number of occasions from the Dispatch Box, we are absolutely committed to the agreement. Indeed, as the noble Lord may be aware, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary released a statement on the 35th anniversary of the joint declaration in which he said:

“This agreement between the UK and China made clear that Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy, rights and freedoms would remain unchanged for 50 years. The undertakings made by China, including the right to freedom of expression, an independent judiciary and the rule of law, are essential to Hong Kong’s prosperity and way of life.”


We stand by that.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Is there anything further that Her Majesty’s Government can do in this very difficult situation—perhaps in diplomatic terms, at the UN or wherever—to hold the behaviour of the Chinese up to the scrutiny of the whole world? It is not only the awful thing in Hong Kong, which the noble Lord, Lord Steel, has just spoken of, but also the Uighurs in the province of Xinjiang. It is shocking and should be exposed to the whole world.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises some very important points. I assure him that that we take seriously our responsibilities to raise the issues both of Hong Kong and of the Uighurs in Xinjiang. As the UK’s Human Rights Minister I have taken this forward and, during our formal statements at the Human Rights Council, I have directly raised the issue of the Uighur community, as well other persecuted minorities in China.