Maritime Surveillance

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Thursday 7th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Robathan]

I have told the hon. Gentleman that I will not engage with him again, because we have done it before and he is in denial. One cannot have military or economic security based on unsustainable defence spending. The Soviet Union found that out. That is why we took a number of difficult decisions during the SDSR, including the decision not to bring the Nimrod MRA4 into service.

At the beginning of the debate, my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire said that he did not wish to concentrate on Nimrod, but I am afraid that it has been largely about Nimrod, which I will therefore have to deal with in some detail. I asked the officials present—this huge number of serving personnel and civil servants—at what date the original Nimrod decision was taken, so I knew before his confession that it was, sadly, taken under the previous Conservative Government.

We should not forget the background to the decision to cancel Nimrod. There were no maritime reconnaissance aircraft flying in the RAF when we came into government. We did not create the capability gap—the capability did not exist. Owing to cost growth in the programme, the original plan to convert 21 airframes for the MRA4 had by 2010 been scaled back to only nine. The in-service date had been delayed from 2003 to 2012, costs had none the less risen from £2.8 billion to £3.6 billion, there were still outstanding technical problems which would have taken further large sums of money to solve and we knew that it would cost about £2 billion to operate over the next decade. While the capability’s role in support of anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare, strategic intelligence gathering, and search and rescue remained important, in a financially constrained environment dominated by the operations in Afghanistan among other threats, it made the most military and financial sense to discontinue the programme, however unhappy that made us.

I was particularly interested in the comments of the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife. I joined the armed forces in 1970 and, during my time in the Army and in Parliament since, I have seen a long list of poor procurement projects—[Interruption.] That is the Leader of the Opposition ringing. Out of a litany of procurement disasters, as the hon. Gentleman said, this has been one of the worst. It was more than nine years late, each aircraft was to cost three times the original amount and we still had not finished. We did not where the programme was going, there was no end in sight and we were not asked to throw good money after bad. I am afraid that that decision, much as it is regretted, was the right one.

[Dr Julian Lewis]

I apologise to the Minister and to other right hon. and hon. Members for coming late to the debate. I was serving on the Justice and Security Bill Committee, which has only just finished. Given that so much money was sunk into this project and that considerable technological advances were made for the equipment that was to be carried on the Nimrod, will we still get the benefit of that advanced technology development for possible use in future programmes?

[Mr Robathan]

My hon. Friend asks a good question, but I am afraid that I cannot answer at this moment. I will write to him and let him know but, certainly, technological advance does not go away—it has happened.

We have not been idle in dealing with the consequences of the decision. Revised plans and operating procedures are in place for other platforms to mitigate the absence of a maritime patrol aircraft capability. I will not go into too much detail, as some things are classified, but we can request support from allies and partners if necessary and we have established a seedcorn initiative to maintain the skills and knowledge necessary to operate maritime patrol aircraft in the future, should circumstances change. I was in New Zealand last year and saw some of our RAF personnel who were taking part in the seedcorn initiative. They said it was extremely valuable, and I thought it also sounded like a pretty good posting.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Monday 14th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

That is the second time today that I have been asked more than one question from the Liberal Democrat Benches. My hon. Friend is right to say that the withdrawal of our large amount of equipment in Afghanistan is a big issue. We are in negotiations with the Pakistanis and hope that we will be able to bring a great deal more back through the Pakistan land route than we are currently capable of doing. We expect to bring almost all our equipment out, although some may be gifted to the Afghans when we leave.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Does the Minister recall that the Secretary of State recently revealed to the House that there was a possibility that the Americans might take over Camp Bastion? Can he update the House on this matter, given that without the maintenance of one or more regional strategic bases, our interests in the area may well unravel after 2014?

[Mr Robathan]

My hon. Friend asks a good and searching question. Camp Bastion has had a great deal of investment. Notwithstanding the recent attack, it is a sensible place to have a base as it easily defensible, and we are in negotiations with the Americans and the Afghans on its future. I have no answer to give my hon. Friend at the moment, but I will keep him updated and, when there is a definite answer, I will write to him and let him know.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

This is an unusual outbreak of consensus throughout the Chamber, and I welcome what the hon. Gentleman says. I believe that the Scottish Government have a Minister for Veteran Affairs, who shares the hon. Gentleman’s surname, but if I am honest I am not quite sure what he does. We have had no contact from the Scottish Government about a department of defence. We remain committed to the United Kingdom, and I am glad to say that there is agreement pretty much throughout the Chamber on the need to continue the UK.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his well deserved promotion. Will we continue with the UK’s Trident ballistic missile nuclear deterrent irrespective of the outcome of the Scottish vote?

[Mr Robathan]

I thank my hon. Friend for his congratulations. Current Government policy is to continue with the continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent based on Trident. Should the Scots vote for independence—God forbid!—we would need to review the situation, but the continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent remains our policy, and I see that proceeding into the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

I have absolutely no idea.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

On that same theme, does the Minister agree that it would have been good if G4S had recruited more veterans to police the Olympics and ensure security? Will he confirm that what has happened will not result in a single serving soldier in Afghanistan having to stay on the front line for one day longer than would otherwise have been the case?

[Mr Robathan]

First, I can confirm that nobody will remain longer on operations in Afghanistan because of this debacle over the G4S contract. I will say to my hon. Friend, as he would expect me to, that I absolutely agree that former service personnel would do that job particularly well, but I have no responsibility for the recruitment practices of G4S. However, it appears that it was not recruiting that was the problem but the organisation of the Olympics in general in terms of security.

Armed Forces Covenant

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

We are continuing to refurbish bathrooms and kitchens, for instance, but we are not doing the wholesale modernisation as that has been stopped by the freeze. That £100 million will go towards improvements and the modernisations that will go forward, but there is a freeze. There is a freeze for one simple reason: to quote the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in the previous Government, “there is no money”. It is no good saying that we should spend more when we do not have any money.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Robathan]

No, I am afraid that I will not.

Thirdly, council tax relief has been doubled to just under £600 for a typical six-month tour. That ensures that those who are doing so much to maintain our national security benefit the most. Although it is now old hat to say it, I repeat the fact that doubling the operational allowance for an operational tour means that every member of the armed forces who comes back from a six-month tour in Afghanistan comes back with approximately £5,600, tax free, in his or her pocket. That is particularly good business for travel agents and car salesmen, I think, but it is a great gift and they deserve the money that they get. We are very pleased with that and I can assure the hon. Lady that when I have been in Afghanistan—one sometimes gets the odd ear-bending, if I can put it that way—I have heard that people are grateful for that large lump sum, which is deserved, when they come back.

One of the most important aspects of the covenant is the way we treat those who have been injured or suffer from a debilitating health problem as a result of what we have asked them to do. Medical treatment in the battlefield is second to none and what was once an injury that would take a life is now much more survivable. Outstanding care continues at the Queen Elizabeth hospital and at Headley Court, where the determination of our people to get back to as normal a life as possible is impressively displayed. When one meets amputees who are going to climb Kilimanjaro, one is genuinely humbled. I know that that word is much over-used, but it really is very impressive.

Some, sadly, will need a lifetime of care and we are committed to providing it. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) has produced two excellent reports and we are taking forward his recommendations, particularly those in his “Fighting Fit” report on the mental well-being of our people. I am pleased to say that the Minister of State, Department of Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), has recently announced continued funding for the 24-hour helpline that was one of the recommendations. If anybody would like to ring it, as I have, they will discover that the person at the other end of the line knows what he or she is talking about and gives good signposting to those with mental health issues.

We are also working to introduce a veterans’ information service. It will routinely contact service leavers 12 months after they are discharged to establish whether they have any health needs that require attention. The “Fighting Fit” report refers to the service as something of a safety net to help veterans once the support structures available to them during their service lives are no longer readily accessible. To get it right, it is essential that we can easily identify ex-service personnel, so we are working with the Department of Health to ensure that a veteran’s status is properly recorded on his or her records. Equally, however, we must recognise that some who leave the services do not wish to have such a status recorded, and it is right to respect their individual wishes.

The hon. Lady particularly asked whether we will publish a covenant this year and we will do so in the autumn—in November, I would expect—not least because it is a statutory requirement and we believe firmly that we should obey the laws that we have passed.

The armed forces covenant remains work in progress, but it definitely is progressing. We have already made significant gains and we are fulfilling our commitments made in the programme for Government. Much more is set out in the interim report to which the hon. Lady has referred, which I am sure she has read. However it is wrong to suggest that every time we have to make a difficult decision to repair the damage caused by the previous Administration, it is somehow a breach of that commitment. The covenant defines the principles of removing disadvantage and allowing special provision in some circumstances in the access to public and commercial services. This has set a framework for policy making and delivery across Government and will improve the support available for the armed forces community. Those who serve and those who have served deserve nothing less, even in the difficult times we face today.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

I always accept compliments, from whatever surprising quarters they come. I was not aware of the £1 million veterans fund suggestion, but I will look into it when I have heard from the shadow Secretary of State.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

The Secretary of State’s excellent decision to deploy an anti-air warfare Type 45 destroyer to the Falklands certainly ensures that the islands are protected against aerial attack. That still leaves the danger of surface attack. In the absence of aircraft carriers, can my right hon. Friend confirm that a nuclear-powered submarine is available to protect our warship and the sea lanes approaching the Falklands?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

I can confirm to my hon. Friend that when I was serving in the Coldstream Guards it was a matter of some upset when young-looking soldiers who were prepared to lay their lives on the line were denied entry to pubs. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his campaign, and I am particularly pleased to see that I am on the front of “Warrington Matters” in connection with it. I do not think the photograph of me is very flattering, though.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

7. What progress he has made on the implementation of the Trident replacement programme.

Royal Fleet Auxiliary

Debate between Lord Robathan and Julian Lewis

Monday 6th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) on securing this Adjournment debate on the very important issue of the future of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, and on providing me with an opportunity to speak on the issue, albeit rather more briefly than I had expected. I understand his relationship with the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, and I applaud him for speaking up for the work force. I absolutely accept that that is right and proper. I will put a plug in for myself and mention that, when I first came into the House—in 1983, I think—I served on the Employment Select Committee, as it then was, and instigated and chaired an inquiry into employment in the merchant navy, which was then under serious pressure—as indeed it has been since.

I shall deal in a few moments with the review mentioned by the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). I say to everyone in the Chamber—there is a surprisingly large number of Members present for an Adjournment debate—that this is not the place from which we would have wished to start. I do not want to get into party political point scoring, but everyone understands that we are in a difficult financial and economic situation and that the Government cannot go on spending money that they do not have.

[Dr Lewis]

I fully appreciate the financial hole in which the Government find themselves, but surely it is a false economy when money has been spent on brand-new vessels such as the Bay class even to think of disposing of them at such an early stage of their lives.

[Mr Robathan]

As I said a moment ago, no one would have wished to start from here, but we have to look at all options. Some programmes in the defence budget have already been cancelled—they have been announced—even though we have spent a lot of money on them. We did not wish to do so, but we had no further money to pour into them.

Let me speak briefly about the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. It was established in 1905, providing coaling ships to supply the Royal Navy’s network of bases around the world. It has continued to evolve into what we see today in the global reach that the RFA delivers for defence and the Royal Navy. Although its origins are the merchant navy, the RFA has developed in a specialised way to meet the Royal Navy’s requirements. It is linked to the Royal Navy by heritage, which has been mentioned, tasks, management, chain of command and ethos.

The commercial merchant navy has had a long history of working with the Royal Navy over many centuries and has had to fight and defend itself to develop commerce around the world. Defending itself against piracy, for instance, is not a new challenge. More recently, developments in warfare and warships, specialisation of commercial ships and their design limit the utility of commercial shipping to providing core support to military operations. While commercial shipping has little knowledge of warfare, over the past 30 years the RFA has developed to meet the specialised needs of 21st century warfare.

The RFA is the modern example of merchant shipping working and prepared to fight alongside the Royal Navy. It is the means by which the Navy operates globally. Equally exposed to the risk, it is a key enabler for worldwide reach of the UK’s armed forces. The RFA has essential qualities that make it different, as the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington said, and that enable it to deliver operational quality effectively to the Ministry of Defence and the Navy, blending the commercial manning and ship management models into military operations. As a result of the versatility of the ships and the knowledge that the work force has accumulated over many years, the RFA has become a deliverer of operational capability as well as an enabler.