UK-Mauritius Agreement on the Chagos Archipelago

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, first, I join everybody else in congratulating both the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Prentis, and her kinsman—or father, whichever term she would rather have—on their speeches, because I think it is a great occasion. We shall miss the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, for whom I have even spoken, and he still spoke to me after I had spoken for him at his constituency.

I should say that I find this issue very depressing. We are seeing our country and our country’s interests being undermined by human rights lawyers. Obviously, we have the Prime Minister, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hermer, and Philippe Sands. I think—somebody will correct me if I am wrong—they all served in the same Chambers at the Bar. I must say to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, for whom I have a very high regard—he was a very good chairman of the committee when I was on it—that to use Philippe Sands as an interviewee is slightly strange, since he was a paid counsel of the Mauritian Government. I think that is right—noble Lords can correct me if I am wrong—so it seems to me that he is slightly party pris.

We heard from the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Houghton, about lawfare, and I think that this really is lawfare. I will quote Sir Christopher Greenwood, who I do not know at all. He said, according to the International Agreements Committee report, that the consequence of not ratifying the agreement is that

“it completely undermines our position that we are a state that wishes to promote the rule of law in international affairs”.

I am sure that Christopher Greenwood is a quite excellent lawyer, but he had, of course, been with the court for a dozen years or so, which does sometimes make you slightly think in a particular way. Any court—the International Court of Justice is one—is actually the servant of the members of the court. I think I am right in saying that, of the 15 members, one was Somali, one was Russian and one was Chinese. Somebody can correct me if that is wrong.

I shall also share a quote, because I think it is rather important, about the security of the UK, which we heard about from my noble friend Lord Howell at some stage. Last week, we had the delayed report of the national security strategy issued by this Government. I think it was the Foreign Secretary who said that we want to make the UK

“a harder target for our enemies.”

He also said that we have to have

“clear-eyed view of how we engage with major powers such as China in order to protect our national security and promote our economic interests”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/6/25; col. 975.]

If anybody is under any illusions about this, the report states:

“Instances of China’s espionage, interference in our democracy and the undermining of our economic security have increased in recent years. Our national security response will therefore continue to be threat-driven”.


I do not consider China an enemy, but it is certainly not an ally. We have to be open-eyed about this. For instance, we might consider the treaty that we had with China over Hong Kong and how well it has stuck to the details of that.

We heard the most extraordinary attack on the Conservative Government by the spokesman for the Liberal Democrats. I was sitting next to the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, not a moment ago; I quoted to him what the spokesman said, and he said that that was absolutely not the case. Let us not just tick through the details; let us talk to people such as the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, who were there.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

I refer the noble Lord back to Hansard for the Statement from James Cleverly, and I am afraid that he should withdraw his comment that I was incorrect. I quoted the Written Ministerial Statement from the Foreign Secretary.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

I heard the noble Lord; earlier, we heard the noble Lords, Lord Ahmad and Lord Cameron, say entirely different things.

On the marine protected area, environmental matters are extremely important to the whole world. Can the Minister tell us in summing up how Mauritius will protect the reefs? We do not have enough boats to do it, and what boats does it have?

Finally, on the treaty, I have mentioned the treaty on Hong Kong. How about international law in the case of the Budapest memorandum, where Russia agreed to respect the treaties with Ukraine? Treaties are marvellous, but not always held to by the people who sign them.

Parliamentary Commercial Department

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 12th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

I want to add just one thing about what the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said. The dominance of the position of the House of Commons certainly resulted in the death of one Member of this House. Many years ago, when I came in, I fought for four years to get a defibrillator established in this place, because repeatedly a number of Members of the House collapsed after speaking. Most of the time this was innocent but, once or twice, we had cardiac arrests and people were taken to St Thomas’s Hospital.

When I finally tried to raise this with the officials of this House, I was given a meeting with officials in the other place and told very firmly that the House of Commons would not accept this. One of the things that was said to me was, “What would we do if a member of the public collapsed in the Gallery? Would it be our responsibility?” Interestingly, the medical advice in this House was not considered sufficient for the medical advice in the lower House.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Perhaps I might briefly add to what my noble friend Lord Forsyth said, focusing in particular on the door. There are many other points that could be made. I think it seems very sensible to do things jointly, although I am concerned this will lead to even less accountability. The important thing is to find out who is accountable. It is alleged that the door was going to cost £2 million and may have cost £11 million or £12 million. If this were in the private sector, I am afraid that people would be sacked. If it is true, we need answers and somebody, on every decision that is made, needs to be accountable.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Can I ask the Leader of the House to investigate the position of access to the Terrace? One of the greatest privileges of the House, apart from the Chamber and Library, is access to the Terrace. Our Terrace is infinitely smaller than the Terrace next door, which I enjoyed as a Member of the other place. It strikes me that many of the places are taken on the Terrace by Members of the other place and their guests, leaving not enough places for Members of this House. I think it should be reciprocal. I am quite happy to allow Members of the other place to use our Terrace on the basis that we are able to use theirs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

The Leader has done extremely well, if might say so, because she is not responsible for this; she is not to blame. Once upon a time I used to deal in assaulting buildings, and let me tell you that you would not assault a door where two police officers with submachine guns were standing. Now you can assault that door, because there are no policemen with machine guns—you would go round the back, if you wanted to assault it. I am afraid that the advice she was given on security is, frankly, nonsense.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I have to say to the noble Lord that it is not nonsense. There have been officers with machine guns on the door, but that does not take away the need to have a proper door that is secure for the House. I do not know whether the noble Lord has ever read the Murphy review, which covered both Houses—it may have been published when he was in the other place; I am not sure whether he was in this House then. We need to take these things seriously. All of us will have solutions and simple answers and will say, “If you do this, it will be fine”. But let us just look at getting the door up and running. The purpose today is to look to the future, and the issue before us is the joint department. I am grateful for the noble Lord’s comments; I hope that my next job will be at the UN.

Cuba: Political Dialogue and Cooperation Agreement

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 25th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I hear what my noble friend says, but we cannot commit to a specific timeline for ratification, as this is a matter for Parliament. However, initial steps to undertake the cross-government consultation are under way. We do not currently have plans for provisional implementation, but I point out to my noble friend that positive collaboration with Cuba is possible without it, as evidenced by the recent visit to Havana by United Kingdom climate experts.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I went to Cuba a few years ago, and we got to know a taxi driver who drove us around—he was a charming man. When he relaxed, I said to him, “Would you like to go to America?” He said, “Are you mad? Everybody I know wants to go to America”. The reason is that they were being oppressed by the ghastly Government on that “peaceful island”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I hear what the noble Lord says. The embargo does negatively affect the living standards of the Cuban people but, more importantly, it impedes the economic and political development of the country. That is why this country, including the previous Government, supports this move.

Gaza

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 5th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

We made our position very clear to the Israeli authorities about their actions risking breaching their obligations under international humanitarian law. We have, however, gone further, as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has said. We issued a statement this afternoon, together with France and Germany—again, our strong allies in this—making it clear that blocking aid is unacceptable and should be stopped. We are monitoring the situation; we know that a substantial amount of aid is trying to get in, and we will continue to pressure the Israelis to remove that block.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, would it be possible for the Minister to explain whether there is any inter-relationship between the American plan—with the rather unusual large, golden statue of Mr Trump—and the Egyptian and Arab plan, because those two might, funnily enough, work a little bit together?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

Obviously, the situation is incredibly complex, but if there is one thing that I think will be key to finding a solution, it is the normalisation of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. That is key, and there must be a Palestinian component in that. We will press to achieve that, and we will work alongside US President Trump and his team in the coming weeks to bring it about. Our long-standing position has been that we will recognise a Palestinian state at the time that is most conducive to that peace process, but we are certain that if we can ensure that that normalisation between the Saudis and Israel takes place, we can progress rapidly.

Action Against Houthi Maritime Attacks

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, it is a challenge. In the international world, people in different places make their calculations on different bases. The fundamental point that I have been trying to relay, and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has been trying to relay, is that there is an issue which this country for centuries has been concerned about, which is ensuring freedom of navigation and freedom of movement and trade on the seas. That stands as an integral, vital, independent issue. Noble Lords have referred to the complex and dangerous tapestry of activity around the region and the role of Iran. I can only repeat, without going into specifics, that we have taken action against the Iranian proxies in Yemen, the Houthis. We are on due guard to make sure that we protect our interests in the region as a whole. The British Government do not favour war; it is not the first resort of the British Government to resort to military action, but I assure the noble Baroness that we are watching very carefully the role of the Iranian Government and that they know they are being watched.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to hear what the Leader of the House just said, because we must never enter lethal conflict lightly; we have to consider it very well not just to avoid deaths of our own service personnel but for the sake of civilians and others elsewhere. Regarding Iran, does my noble friend consider that in fact, the Iranians’ wish—the whole purpose of this—is to test the resolve of the West by attacking shipping to see whether we are actually willing to stand up? Regarding Gaza, does my noble friend agree that, if Hamas was to lay down its weapons and release the hostages and the criminals responsible for the attacks of 7 October were to flee to the Gulf and live in luxury hotels with their friends, there would be an immediate ceasefire, the possibility of a new Government in Israel and a possibility, however remote, of a decent settlement which allowed both Palestinians and Israelis to live in peace?

[Lord True (Con)]

I fully agree with my noble friend. The Houthis should cease their action; Hamas should never have undertaken the action it did. We are putting the Iranians under pressure, and I remind the House that we have already sanctioned 400 Iranian individuals and entities, including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, and we will continue to watch their role in weapons proliferation, regional conflict and human rights violations—all the things they are up to in the region.

NATO Summit

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement. While he does not need my congratulations, I congratulate the Prime Minister and the Government on their work at the NATO summit, which is incredibly important. However, where I part company with the Government and my noble friend is that it is not enough, I am afraid. There is a war raging in Europe; it is not enough.

When I was a boy, there were four divisions in the British Army, with three armoured divisions sitting in Germany. We cannot find a single full division now. Notwithstanding anything the Defence Secretary has recently said—and, by the way, he has done very well with Ukraine—we need more troops. We cannot cut the size of the Armed Forces—Army, Navy and Air Force —at the same time as this war is raging. In fact, we should never have cut them in the first place. That is very important.

I pray in aid President Reagan, as did my noble friend. As we recall, President Reagan spent a lot of money on a thing called Star Wars. People said it was nonsense and that it would create war, but, as a result of Star Wars, an arms race with the Soviet Union took place that led to the end of the Cold War. We have to be strong. Ask the Ukrainians and the Russians whether the number of troops is important. Of course it is important: they are desperate for more recruits on both sides. So I ask my noble friend, for whom I have a great deal of time, to please mention in Cabinet that we need more money, because this is a time of crisis. We need more troops. I know that everybody says, “Oh, the National Health Service is very important”, and it is, but actually more important is that we can defend our country and our interests abroad.

[Lord True (Con)]

I understand the passion with which my noble friend, with his distinguished and courageous record of service to our country, makes his points. The defence paper published today sets out the rationale for the balance in forces in terms of numbers and capabilities. Effective war fighting units must have the best possible modern equipment. The Government announced a significant uplift of an extra £5 billion over the next two years, which will immediately increase our defence budget to around 2.25% of GDP, and we are on the way to delivering our new ambition of 2.5%.

We contribute to every NATO mission and operation; we offer the full spectrum of capabilities to the alliance; we will apportion almost all of our Armed Forces to NATO as part of the new NATO force model in 2024-25; we contribute more troops than any other ally to NATO’s enhanced forward presence, with 900 troops deployed in Estonia and a further 150 in Poland, all at high readiness; and we will be the frame- work nation for the land component of a new allied reaction force.

None the less, I hear what my noble friend says. The Government are determined to have an effective and capable Army, and we will continue to work for that end.

British Army: Troop Size

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe (Con)]

The noble Baroness will remember that, as part of the spending review of 2020, MoD secured a generous £24 billon uplift to its budget. This will enable the Armed Forces generally to invest in things that they would not otherwise have been able to, including spending £6.6 billion on R&D, establishing a new space command, developing the next generation of naval vessels, developing a new combat air system for the RAF and enhancing our cyber capabilities. So a multitude of work is going on to improve the capability and capacity of all of our Armed Forces.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, given that, in 1946, Churchill in particular said that our allies the Russians—they were our allies—particularly despise military weakness, does the Minister genuinely think that today is a good time to reduce the Army, as we are doing as we speak?

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, through history, the same effects have been delivered by fewer and fewer people due to the smart employment of new technology. In our own day, robotics and artificial intelligence play into exactly the same trend: in reconnaissance, one drone can do a job done by scores of people in the past. So this emphasis on the integration of emerging technology will make an enormous difference to the capability of the Army and indeed across the Armed Forces.

Living with Covid-19

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

The noble Lord will be aware that we have announced that we will end free testing, but it will not finish until the end of March; we are not stopping free testing immediately. There will obviously be the opportunity for people to get tests during that time. As the noble Baroness said, the test, trace and isolation budget in 2020-21 exceeded the entire budget of the Home Office. It cost a further £15.7 billion this financial year and £2 billion in January alone, at the height of the omicron wave. We want to move to the next phase as we begin to live with Covid, and ending free testing is one aspect of that approach.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Unusually, I congratulate the Government—first on the outstanding success of the vaccine programme, which really has been world leading, and secondly on this policy of living with Covid. It is extremely important that we rely on personal responsibility and common sense, and do not listen to the siren voices from SAGE and others who say that we must stay locked down for ever. Can my noble friend please tell me what the death rate has been in the last month, compared with the death rate in 2018-19?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. I do not have the exact figures to hand but, as I said, the reporting of deaths is always slightly delayed. It has started to decline now and we expect this to continue. The latest evidence suggests that the risk of presentation to emergency care or hospital admission with omicron is approximately half that for delta.

Ukraine Update

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I am afraid I do not agree with the noble Lord’s comments. The action President Putin has taken represents a further attack on Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. It signals an end to the Minsk process and is a violation of the UN charter. Unfortunately, it demonstrates Russia’s decision to choose a path of confrontation over dialogue. We remain willing to talk, but it must de-escalate its aggression towards Ukraine.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I first applaud both the Prime Minister and the Government in their resolve. Putin has tested the resolve and unity of the West and he has found it wanting. Like all bullies, he senses weakness. I am afraid that the Government’s reduction of our Armed Forces—the Army by 11%, and the number of our Royal Navy ships and RAF airplanes—will also be seen by him as weakness. Will my noble friend take back this plea? Action in increasing our defences—in rearmament, if you like—will speak louder than sanctioning three individuals.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. As he knows, we are one of the biggest contributors to NATO. We are looking at investing in our Armed Forces. We have major investments in ground-based air defence, cyber and electronic warfare, a modernised tank fleet and accelerated procurement. We are committed to ensuring that our brave military has the equipment and training it needs.

Business of the House

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move the second Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, before we go any further, could my noble friend the Leader tell us when the third SI will be laid? I asked the clerks and the Printed Paper Office, but they said it is not there.