Brexit: Case for a Second Referendum

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness King of Bow (Lab)]

My Lords, let me begin by making one thing very plain. At this point in time, it is the will of the British people to leave the European Union. Therefore, negotiations on Brexit must take place. Once they conclude and the shape and meaning of Brexit become clear, at that point it is only fair and democratic that the British people accept or reject the final deal. The problem is that at the moment we have no idea when the deal will be made—even if it will be made—or what it will include. To borrow a phrase, we know nothing.

David Cameron repeatedly said that if he lost the referendum vote he would trigger Article 50 for Britain to leave the EU. Well, he did not trigger Article 50 but he did trigger a series of events that may well lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom and the impoverishment of its people.

Let us turn to the British people. They voted by a narrow margin to leave the EU, but many British people—possibly the majority; possibly even the majority in this House—were unaware of the far-reaching consequences of the EU referendum. After all, they were asked, “Do you want to leave the EU?”, not, “Do you want to break up the UK?”. This likely outcome was not articulated clearly by either side during the referendum campaign. This brings us back to the central problem. After the dust has settled, in the immediate aftermath of the referendum vote, we do not know what we voted for. We have no idea.

Did we vote to leave the EU but stay in the single market? A lot of people who campaigned and voted for Brexit, including Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, say that was what they were fighting for. Really? Well, we are not going to get that unless we accept free movement of people. That has been made very plain by EU leaders. Although the remain camp accepts free movement of people, many in the leave camp do not; in fact, that was why many of them voted to leave. In many of those forgotten British towns that have been left to struggle on their own—like Don Valley in the north, Ebbsfleet and Thurrock in the south and Ebbw Vale and Gwent in Wales—a lot of people who voted to leave said that they did so because they wanted to restrict free movement of people. They voted for something that will probably never happen, so they have already been deceived. At least let them have the final say when they know what the cost is.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

I am very grateful to my noble friend for giving way. Does she not think it may be perceived as being somewhat patronising to suggest that people did not know what they were voting for when they voted in the referendum? Would it not be better for this unelected House to say, “The people have spoken, whether we like it or not”?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Robathan]

My Lords, I apologise for not having put down my name; I did not realise that the debate was taking place. I am not a fan of referendums—I really am not; I believe in parliamentary democracy—but we had one, as has just been pointed out. Dear God, was one not enough? Do we really want another one? I cannot believe that people would want another one. I am distressed that we are losing as a consequence the very rare talents of our Prime Minister, but that was his decision, not mine.

Let me focus on this House. This House revealed during the referendum campaign that, frankly, it was quite out of touch with public opinion, with the people whom we are here to serve—our people. I always thought that we would leave, because I talked to people and listened to them. We as a House should perhaps have listened rather more to what the people were saying. We have become out of touch and it is important for our legitimacy that we become a little more in touch with the people, because this is a unique, unelected and—dare I say?—somewhat strange legislative assembly.

The British people were not deluded; they knew what they were doing; they voted to leave. We may disagree with it—many people do; I do not—but they voted to leave. We should not scorn their decision; we should not deride the reasons they did it for; we should accept what they said and get on with being a democracy in this county. When one disagrees, it is of course a bit painful—I thought that the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, was absolutely right; luckily, I won all the general elections that I stood in—but, nevertheless, please let us just accept the result.

Jan Böhmermann

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Robathan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the Government of Germany about the case of Jan Böhmermann.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK Government are aware of the case of Jan Böhmermann; however, we have not made any representations to the Government of Germany. We consider this case to be a matter for the German Government. The UK Government remain committed to encouraging and upholding freedom of speech and media expression around the world.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I know the whole House will agree that freedom of speech and the right to poke fun at our political leaders are part of being British. Indeed, freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, and the court has said that it is,

“one of the essential foundations of a democratic society”.

This man, if I might say so, showed rather poor taste and perhaps he should be prosecuted for obscenity but it appears—my noble friend may contradict me on this—that Chancellor Merkel, under pressure from President Erdogan, has agreed that this prosecution can go forward because she is desperate for Turkish assistance on the migrant issue.

We are told we have great influence in the EU, so could Her Majesty’s Government use that great influence to ensure that this prosecution does not take place? Will they tell Chancellor Merkel and the Germans to resist any pressure, to resist blackmail and to not kow-tow to President Erdogan, whose record on human rights and free speech is, frankly, lamentable?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, ultimately it is for the Government and people of Germany to set and implement their own laws. The Chancellor has referred the matter, as is proper, to the prosecuting authorities for them to make the decision. Under paragraph 103 of the German Criminal Code, insulting a foreign head of state carries a maximum jail term of three years. It is a matter for the prosecutor now to decide whether a prosecution will go ahead. As for the thought of Chancellor Merkel kow-towing, I have met her—in your dreams.

European Council

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble Lord is right to say that discussions on a matter as important—a once-in-a-lifetime decision—as the position of the United Kingdom in the European Union should be made in a cool, rational and evidence-based way. With regard to in-work benefits, I simply say that taking a look at the DWP’s own figures for March 2013—the latest usable figures in this connection—shows that about 40% of all recent European Economic Area migrants are supported by the UK benefits system.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, while I hope that we all wish the Prime Minister well in his negotiations—

[Noble Lords]

This side!

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman’s implicit point that we are concerned not just about Ukraine, but about the doctrine of a right to intervene in support of Russian speakers anywhere in the world. The answer to his question is that, sadly, we are not yet seeing a return to serious talks and the implementation of the Minsk peace agreement by the Russian leadership, but the impact of sanctions on the Russian economy, coupled with the decline in oil prices, is catastrophic. It is in the interests of the Russian people that we see a change.

[Mr Andrew Robathan (South Leicestershire) (Con)]

What assessment has the Minister made of the impact on the people of Russia and on Russian public opinion of the effect of the sanctions and the declining oil price?

[Mr Lidington]

The people of Russia—ordinary families—are bearing the brunt of the cost of the Kremlin’s adventurism in Ukraine through much higher inflation, a lack of access to high-quality, good-value imported produce, and a decline, every week, in the value of the rouble in their pockets.

Afghanistan

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

The situation is not perfect, and I am not pretending that it is. We would have preferred a clear and decisive outcome to the presidential election that was accepted immediately by the losing candidate. That is not what we have, although we are very optimistic that the stalemate will be resolved over the next few days. With regard to continuing Taliban violence, nobody ever doubted that there would be a continuing insurgency. The question is whether we have created strong enough institutions of government, strong enough civil institutions and strong enough armed forces to contain that insurgency and allow the normal life of the country to go on and to function. Of course, once the new Government are installed and foreign forces have withdrawn, thus removing one of the principal bones of contention for many of the insurgents, there must then be a move towards a peace process that reconciles the elements of the Taliban who are willing to give up violence with the existing forces of the Government so that we have long-term and sustainable peace in Afghanistan.

[Mr Andrew Robathan (South Leicestershire) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has one or two problems on his plate at the moment, as he will be only too well aware. There are now reports of a pan-Islamist fundamentalist link-up between the Taliban and so-called Islamic State. Would he like to share his views on that? Is there any truth in it?

[Mr Hammond]

There is some evidence for it. My right hon. Friend will probably have seen evidence on his television screen of individual Taliban commanders. The Taliban are not a monolithic organisation but individual insurgent commanders who have indicated an attraction to the ideology of ISIL. That will be a problem that has to be managed. Everything is relative, is it not? A few years ago, we talked about the Taliban as an extreme Islamist movement. In the light of what we have seen in ISIL, it is probably fair to say that much of the Taliban agenda looks more like a nationalist agenda. It remains our belief that significant elements of the insurgency in Afghanistan are capable of being incorporated into a peace process. There will be small elements that are ideologically opposed to any compromise, and they will have to be dealt with very harshly.