NHS: Winter Funding

Debate between Lord Porter of Spalding and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Thursday 11th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

Nine out of 10 type 1 A&E departments now have streaming in place, so the money has gone into that. However, obviously we want to get to 100% so that is where the extra funding will go, but it is already having an impact. A full quantitative evaluation will take place at the end of the winter.

[Lord Porter of Spalding (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that this Government have spent more on the National Health Service than any of their predecessors—considerably more as a proportion of our income, particularly in a world where money is in short supply? Does he agree that the only way to get a truly sustainable health service is to make sure that adult social care is funded to an adequate level? He has already acknowledged that the delays in transfers to social care that result in bed blocking have been reduced, indeed at twice the rate of the delays caused by health service internal delays. From what we have seen over the past few months, it is clear that money invested in social care is the best way of helping the health service.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I thank my noble friend for pointing out the fact that no Government have funded the NHS like this one. Indeed, the proportion of public spending taken up by NHS spending has been increasing in the last seven years, contrary to the views held by those opposite. On the impact of adult social care, my noble friend speaks with great wisdom. We know that money invested in the social care sector has a big impact. It already has, as he pointed out. That is why it is meaningful that the department has taken on full control over social care policies so we can push ahead with integration, which, as we know, is the right way to solve these problems.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord Porter of Spalding and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 18th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy (Con)]

My Lords, I associate myself with the comments made by my noble friend Lord Young in support of the Government’s policy. We have heard many powerful personal stories, including from the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, about people who currently benefit from lifetime tenancies. As my noble friend has explained, in a way that exemplifies an issue that we need to keep front of mind here, which is what economists would call an insider-outsider problem. In practical terms, that means that we have a tendency to undervalue the benefits of a policy to those who are not yet benefiting from it, compared with those who already have a benefit. Quite simply, those who already have a benefit are identifiable—they can write letters. Those who may yet benefit are not in that position. We tend to hear from them less and, as a consequence, we have an unbalanced view of the benefit of a given policy.

This is incredibly important when we think about how it impacts on the welfare state and our ability to support the neediest. I have a personal story—or at least a neighbourhood story—to share about a local housing association tenant, an elderly lady, who lived next door to us and who died. Her flat was inherited by a single working son. Five doors down in temporary accommodation, families crammed into tiny flats did not have a chance to move into that vacated flat because it was passed on to a relative. No one wants to reduce the housing support that anyone benefits from, but is that really a fair distribution of the limited resources that we have at our disposal?

The principle we need to consider is how best to use the funds and assets of the state when we still have a large deficit. We are not in a position not to consider these things. We need to bear in mind that whenever we water down provisions in the Bill, whether through taper thresholds or time limits, the effect is to ask less well-off taxpayers to subsidise those who, in this case, are not in as much need of public financial support. That, in my view, is not progressive. Indeed, it is the opposite. When considering how to vote, I urge your Lordships to consider those who are unable to access a social home, who are subsidising social housing through their taxes but are not benefiting from it. These people—the neediest—must surely be given a better chance of accessing a social home. That is what these amendments would prevent.

[Lord Porter of Spalding]

My Lords, I had no intention of speaking at this point because I have an amendment in the next group, but we need to stop perpetuating this myth that social housing is subsidised by the taxpayer. Well-prepared, well-delivered social housing is a financial benefit for this country. All the money we have mortgaged in those properties is about a third of its total value. If we are truly progressive we should be looking at how we sweat the asset that we already have tied up in there. There is no need for the Treasury to put fresh money into it. We just need to utilise the existing stock in a way that maximises its benefit for the whole country. That said, I will sit down now, as I am waiting to speak later.