Nurses and Midwives: Numbers

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 4th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

In the long run, we want to be in a position to provide more of our staff domestically. There are concerns about the fact that we recruit from other countries, not least developing countries—I do not think that that is a long-term, sustainable position. In addition to the additional nurse training places that I mentioned, more medical training places for doctors are coming through, so we will be achieving that position in future.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, do the Government accept that the £10 billion per annum in net cash that we shall no longer pay to Brussels after Brexit is equivalent to the annual salaries of some 1,000 nurses every day?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Lord’s mental maths are far better than mine. I agree that it will provide for the possibility of yet more funding for the NHS, which is something that this Government have delivered in the past seven years.

Brexit: Mental Health Research Funding

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Thursday 23rd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

As I set out in my Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, the intention is to continue our relationship with and involvement in cross-EU health projects. Other third-party countries do that, and there is no reason why that would not be the case. In terms of the workforce, which I think is what the noble Baroness was referring to, the Prime Minister has been very clear that we want to continue to attract the brightest and best to this country. Once we have left the European Union, our immigration system will be set up to do just that.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, is not this yet another area where there is really no such thing as EU funding? Do the Government agree that the contribution to which this Question refers comes out of the £10 billion per annum which we pay to Brussels and which it sends back? That is not to mention the additional £10 billion per annum which we pay to Brussels in net cash. So surely the Government can agree without qualification to fully fund this very important service and, if necessary, increase it after Brexit.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Lord is right that the European Union does not in itself have a tax base and that we are a net contributor to European Union budgets. As I said, our intention is to continue to have a productive relationship with the European Union as a third party, contributing to research budgets and benefiting from them, as we do, in terms of both funding and the people who work together on these important areas.

Learning Disabilities: Transforming Care

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

I think we have a direct Question on carers next week. We are absolutely committed to supporting carers. Where people who have been in hospital for more than five years are discharged back into the community, as it were, the CCGs will provide them with a dowry to cover their costs. It will be very clear that the funding of those patients will stay with the CCGs.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, will the Government encourage village and intentional communities, which have proved so successful for those covered by this Question and are in great demand by their families, a demand that cannot be met at the moment? I declare an interest, as my daughter lives in such a community.

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

Yes, I am very happy to do that. There are some concerns about changes in social housing and rent caps, which might have the unintentional consequence of making it more difficult to build new houses that can accommodate these kinds of people. That is very much under review by the Government. We absolutely support what the noble Lord says.

E-cigarettes: Regulation

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 7th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, I think there is evidence that e-cigarettes are more effective than, or as effective as, nicotine replacement therapies, and that my noble friend is right that there is no danger from passive smoking, which is why the inability to smoke in public places does not apply to e-cigarettes.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, do we really need this sort of interfering directive from Brussels? Are we incapable of looking after vaping devices ourselves?

[Lord Prior of Brampton]

My Lords, we are capable of looking after vaping devices on our own, but if we ever want to sell into the European market, we will have to abide by those regulations.

Health: Patient Safety

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend makes a series of very important points. Clearly, a balance has to be struck here. It would become self-defeating if every single mistake, even one that had no bearing on patient safety, had to be reported by every single member of staff. The system would be overloaded. We are keen to ensure that those incidents that result in potential harm, real harm or—worse still—death are reported, exposed and dealt with. Of course the National Reporting and Learning System, which was originally part of the National Patient Safety Agency when the previous Government set it up and is now housed at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust, has the task of collating safety incidents from trusts and drawing lessons from them. That is every bit as important a process as it ever was. It will be the task of NHS England to draw those lessons together and incorporate them in its commissioning guidance. My noble friend has raised that issue and we have a task ahead of us that will take some time to achieve; but I believe that this is a welcome start.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, looking back on it, was the Nursing 2000 initiative not a bad mistake because it turned nursing into an all-graduate profession, with degrees supplied by the second-rate social science departments of the former polytechnics? Are the Government doing anything with the training of nurses that reflects what the noble Lord’s colleague at education, Mr Gove, is doing with the training of teachers, about which we heard in the first Question today? Is there a new emphasis on practical training and on getting back to matron and the discipline of the ward?

[Earl Howe]

It was only recently that the Nursing and Midwifery Council revised the curriculum for the training of nurses. I am sure that the noble Lord will be pleased to know that that curriculum is broadly divided 50:50 into practical training and training in the classroom, which was the balance historically. I believe that nurse training is now set fair for the future. The noble Lord is right to raise concerns about Project 2000, which many people felt did not quite address the needs of nurse training. However, that programme is substantially different now from what it was in 2000.

Social Care Funding

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness on how important this is. It is quite complex to explain the whole system in words. The system will depend on the operation of a sliding scale which, by its nature, is difficult to describe other than pictorially. Nevertheless, the basics of the rules of these funding arrangements are straightforward and can be described. They are, as the Statement described, two essential elements, being the maximum level that people have to pay for their care—which we are setting at £61,000 in 2010 prices; £75,000 in 2017—and the means test, which is £100,000.

Of course, there are nuances around that, such as around couples and how the system will work for them. That is a question that the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked me which I did not answer. At present, a couple could potentially face two sets of unlimited care costs. By protecting them from these costs, the reforms offer them significant benefits which need to be spelt out. In most circumstances, even if a couple both had care costs at £75,000, the level of the cap, they would contribute less than this because housing assets do not count towards the means test if one of the partners remains resident in the home. All those sorts of things need to be made clear. We will do our very best to work with others to ensure that these messages have not only the greatest clarity but the greatest coverage.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I do not want to make a European point so much as to ask the Government whether they have not got their spending priorities tragically wrong. In our previous debate, I asked the noble Lord the Leader of the House how he could justify sending £11 billion in net cash annually to Brussels to be filtered away. Here we are, with this debate on the Dilnot commission, and, from the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, we have made a step forward. However, clearly this is not adequate to look after the needs of our old and infirm for many years.

How can the Government throw away £11 billion with one hand and then say that we cannot afford more than £1 billion by the end of the next Parliament to look after our old and infirm? Are we a civilised society?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I hope that we are a civilised society. While I understand the noble Lord’s point of view on the European Union, the fact is that if we are fully paid-up members of the European Union we have legal obligations to contribute to the Community budget. That is a given.

However, like any Government, we need to look at the totality of government commitments in the round. We have decided that, against competing priorities, this is a very high priority. That is why we have brought forward these proposals.

Care Services: Winterbourne View

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Baroness brings us to a set of key points. She said that in her view the NHS and local government simply do not have the capacity to address these issues properly. In many respects we would agree with that, although it would be wrong to make a blanket statement about the whole country because we know that very good pockets of commissioning and provision exist. One of the tasks of the joint improvement team will be to identify those areas of best practice, and to enable those operating in those areas to go out and mentor other areas. Part of the sum of money that we set aside will be devoted to enabling those high-performing areas to backfill the places while they are engaged in that mentoring exercise. Her basic point is well taken. We think there is a job to do here but it is one of those things that the Board and the Local Government Association need to oversee on a national basis.

That is only a short extension from the function of the Commissioning Board in general, which will be to support commissions. We are grateful to the Local Government Association for its overseeing role for local authorities. I fully expect that they will engage with the learning disability sector. I commend to her the concordat, which is accessible on the department’s website, and she will see from that that the 50 organisations that have signed up to it include a number of voluntary organisations in this sector. Jointly, these bodies have committed to a programme of action. It is not just about defining what needs to be done but about how it will be done. It is an impressive set of commitments that those bodies have signed up to.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, the Minister spoke about the need for a fundamental change of culture but I heard nothing in the Statement about training, so I hope that he will forgive me if I ask again a question I have been asking for over 20 years about the training of our teachers, social workers and, in this case, care workers. I do so from my background in the 1980s and 1990s on the body that validated all our teacher training courses and from having taken quite a close look at the curriculum then offered by the Central Council for the Education and Training in Social Work. At the former, I was shocked to find that our mission statement was “to permeate the whole curriculum with issues of gender, race and class”.

Since then we have seen Nursing 2000 put the training of nurses away from hospital wards and into the social science departments of the former polytechnics, with results that I predicted at the time. Have the Government looked into the curricula of the training of care workers and of those responsible for this and similar disasters? What training do they get, if indeed they are trained at all? What genuine qualifications do they have before they commence training? Are they proud of what they do, or are they just in it for the money? I hope I am very out of date, but I look forward to the Minister’s reply.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the noble Lord is not out of date, because this is a key issue and I am grateful to him for raising it. It is crucial that staff who work with people with challenging behaviour are properly trained in essential skills. Contracts with learning disability and autism hospitals should be dependent on assurances that staff are signed up to the proposed code of conduct that the Department of Health has commissioned from Skills for Health and Skills for Care and that there should be minimum induction and training standards for unregistered health and social care assistants. Those standards should be met. I would say that owners, boards of directors and senior managers of organisations that provide care must take responsibility for ensuring the quality and safety of their services. There are requirements set out in law in that regard, and they include safe recruitment practices, which necessarily involve selecting the people who are suitable for working with people with learning disabilities, autism and challenging behaviour, and appropriate training for staff on how to support people with challenging behaviour.

From April next year, Health Education England, which is the new, national, multi-disciplinary education and training body, will have a duty to ensure that we have an education and training system across the piece but including a system that can supply a skilled and high-quality workforce for this sector.

Funding of Care and Support

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, as previously in debates of this nature, I declare my interest as the father of a 31 year-old daughter with Down’s syndrome, who is fortunate enough to live in a Camphill community. What I have to say therefore particularly concerns those many people with learning disabilities.

For them, personalisation should offer greater opportunities to tailor services to their individual needs; some real choice, in other words. But you cannot have choice that actually means anything—real freedom of choice—unless you have the freedom to move if you want to. Unlike the rest of us, who can decide to move without losing our entitlement to, say, NHS services, people with learning disabilities who wish to move into another authority, even if it is a couple of miles away in the next town, do not have the same freedom. Somewhat understandably, authorities are only too happy to place residents elsewhere because they gain financially by the transfer. But the responsibility for fresh reassessment, care planning and, of course, funding is then transferred to the receiving authority, with no commitment to replicate it. Not surprisingly, individual receiving authorities do not always accept people who move into their area. These people must have their needs reassessed by this receiving authority, which can be a lengthy process. Most importantly, they have no guarantee whatever of receiving the same level of support.

The rules of ordinary residence mean that costly and wearing disputes between authorities leave vulnerable people in limbo while they thrash out who shall take responsibility. This causes great anxiety and suffering to them and to their families, and leaves providers who would be willing to accept them unable to do so because they do not have the funding available. For instance, Camphill life-sharing communities exist in only a few authorities, so if someone chooses such a way of life, it usually means that they have to relocate, which then brings all the problems I have just mentioned. The rules on the process of resolving funding disputes were recently clarified, but unfortunately this still does not get away from the disputes themselves. In a recent briefing from the Voluntary Organisations Disability Group, its chairman, Bill Mumford, the chief executive of McIntyre, said that one of the chief obstacles to the potential success of personalisation is the postcode lottery, which is,

“confusing and complicated for purchasers of services”.

The Dilnot report, which we are discussing, goes some way towards addressing this problem. It supports the Law Commission’s recommendation that assessments should be portable. Like other noble Lords, I urge the Government to implement this as soon as possible. It would be a step in the right direction. However, I fear that it does not go far enough. What is also needed is portable funding; funding, in other words, which follows the individual. I can but urge the Government to look into ways of ensuring that funding, as well as assessments, becomes portable across local authority boundaries. Perhaps we need a centralised system of funding.

This would prevent the use of money intended for the learning disabled, which is no longer ring-fenced, being spent on other local needs. It would get around much of the unfairness, particularly the postcode lottery which is endemic in the current system. It would ensure real freedom, which is—or should be—at the heart of personalisation.

Finally, in these times of stringent cuts—and here I trust that the noble Lord, Lord Desai, will agree with me, in view of his earlier remarks—every penny would be spent at the frontline, actually supporting people in the way that they choose and that best suits them, rather than on costly and wasteful disputes between authorities as to who will pick up the bill.

I look forward to the Minister’s reply.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, for calling this debate on a topic that I know is not only close to her heart, but close to the hearts of all those who have spoken, as well as mine. This is also a very well timed debate. It will helpfully feed in to the Government’s consideration of these extremely important matters.

Before I talk about reform, I would like to respond to some of the points that have been made here and in another place about the current funding situation for social care. In these challenging economic times, there is pressure on all areas of government spending. We, as a Government, have had to set our priorities and make some difficult decisions. One of those decisions has been to protect social care funding. In the last spending review settlement, we provided an extra £7.2 billion over the four years to 2015 to protect social care, partly through councils and partly through the NHS.

That additional funding will help to alleviate pressures on the adult social care system in the context of a challenging overall funding settlement for local government. We believe that this settlement will protect services, and our view on this is supported by independent research. The King’s Fund has said in its report, Social Care Funding and the NHS, that central government have put enough money in to protect adult social care services. But times are tough and I am not going to pretend otherwise. Although nationally, I can present a relatively positive picture, there are areas where cuts have been made to front-line adult social care services that are really beginning to bite and that must concern all of us.

I turn now to the reform of social care and what needs to happen in the future to improve the way in which we, as a society, support people with care needs and their families. The noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, set out the position extremely well. In this country, our population is ageing as people live longer. This is to be celebrated and not seen as a burden. My noble friend Lady Tyler reminded us of some of the statistics. Last year, we had 13,000 centenarians. I saw that one of them, Fauja Singh from London, recently completed the Toronto marathon, so I hope that that will be an example to many. Most people who are 65 now will live well into their 80s and the number of over-85s is set to double between now and 2026. These are all things that we, as a country, should be proud of, but I can only echo the noble Lord, Lord Low, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wall, in saying that it is also a fact that, as we live longer, we will have a greater need for social care to ensure that we can continue to lead independent and fulfilling lives.

Demand will rise. This is one of the uncomfortable truths mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland. We have an outdated social care system that in some respects has more in common with the principles of 19th-century poor law than it does with the needs of people today and as demand for social care increases, the cracks in this system grow ever wider.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, invited me to signal how strongly the Government feel about this. Our belief is that we urgently need reform, both to the way in which social care is funded and to the legal framework that supports it. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, was absolutely right: many people currently think that when they need social care it will be provided free, just like the NHS. Unfortunately, for most people, this is not true, a fact that people often discover only when they, or their relatives, need care. Many people without direct experience of social care are not aware of the unfairness of the current system and the urgent need to modernise it. We need people to realise that they face a huge financial risk and that this can be met only by reforming the system and by individuals taking greater responsibility for planning and preparing to meet some of these costs.

Social care costs are unpredictable and can be very high. Although a quarter of all those currently aged 65 will not need any significant social care, one in 10 will have costs in excess of £100,000. This can be catastrophic for people and their families. Andrew Dilnot’s report proposes one way in which the problem can be addressed. It is an excellent piece of work and a significant contribution to the debate on social care funding.

I listened with great care to all noble Lords. I will mention the different themes singled out for analysis and comment by the noble Lords, Lord Rix, Lord Adebowale and Lord Low. We now need all those involved with social care, and all sides of the political spectrum, both in your Lordships' House and in another place, to engage in an open and honest debate about the priorities and trade-offs in the area of long-term social care. The engagement on social care that the Government launched in September will provide a forum for the debate and will inform the White Paper and progress report that we intend to publish next April. This will set out our response to Andrew Dilnot's recommendations on funding.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, and to all noble Lords, that this is not an issue that we will shy away from. More than one noble Lord suggested that the Government were, in common parlance, dragging their feet. That is absolutely not the case; social care reform remains a priority for us and we recognise that the current system is unsustainable. However, the matter is complex and we will have to answer a number of related questions. The Dilnot commission's recommendations have significant costs attached to them. As we said in our response to its report, we will need to consider that aspect carefully against other funding priorities and calls on constrained resources. We also set out six tests that we will need to consider in coming to a judgment on the recommendations. Before we set out our plans for major reform of social care, we want to talk to stakeholders about the priorities for reform. That is why we launched the Caring for our Future exercise on 15 September.

The noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, was sceptical about the need for further consultation. He is of course absolutely right that much work has already been done in this area. The Dilnot report builds very capably on that foundation. However, I put it to him that it is also right that we engage with stakeholders on the priorities for reform in the current economic climate. Our commitment to legislate at the earliest opportunity is undiminished.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, asked whether the Government in their White Paper will respond to the Law Commission. The answer is yes. We have committed to legislate for adult social care at the earliest opportunity and we will need to take the Law Commission report as our foundation for that work.

The noble Lord, Lord Desai, took us to the subject of the cap and asked whether we felt that it should be index linked. The Dilnot commission recommended that it should be. The range suggested for the cap was between £25,000 and £50,000. It recommended that ideally the figure should be around £35,000. We are looking very constructively at the suggestion of index linking.

The noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, suggested that I had “done a Baroness Trumpington” in my reply to his question about the cap. I am sorry that he thought that: it is not my style, as I hope he knows. The commission’s report set out detailed costings in its evidence and analysis. These included costs for different levels of cap. The level of the cap is an important variable. We are considering the implications of the different levels. As part of the Caring for our Future engagement, the department discussed the cap with the financial services sector. In particular, we discussed the principle of a considerably higher cap than Dilnot recommended. A key conclusion of the discussions, which we published on the engagement website, was that a high cap such as £100,000 would seem unobtainable to people and would not stimulate the development of financial services.

That brings us to the question posed by my noble friend Lady Barker of whether we are looking at the possibility of improving the equity release market. The engagement is exploring the role for financial services in helping people with care costs. That will include any improvements in equity release that we can see for the future. I do not agree with the implication of the noble Lord, Lord Desai, that equity release is not a potentially useful mechanism for us to explore.

The noble Lord, Lord Warner, put forward his constructive view that the Government might consider setting up a loan scheme so that people can use housing wealth to pay for care. We are aware of the commission’s recommendation for a universal deferred payment scheme, and we have been considering it along with other recommendations as part of the engagement.

My noble friend Lady Barker indicated that assessment of needs has to be independent of the financial assessment. I agree that that is an important issue. The Law Commission’s recommendations make clear provision for that. Following on from that, the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, talked about the need for information and advice when people use care and said that that has to improve, which was again a theme picked up by Dilnot. We completely agree that information and advice are extremely important. Our publication A Vision for Adult Social Care, which came out a year ago, made it clear that people should have good information. The Law Commission has made recommendations in this area, as I am sure the noble Baroness knows. We are again looking very seriously at this. It is a major issue coming out of the engagement.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, that we completely agree that disabled people need to have choice and control to live independently. The Government’s A Vision for Adult Social Care makes clear our commitment to more personalised support. We want to see greater rollout of personal budgets that give people choice, control and independence. I think it is unrealistic to believe that we can do that sooner than around 2013, but we are working hard on it.

The noble Lords, Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Lord Adebowale, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, spoke powerfully about the idea of portability. We recognise that enabling portability of assessment could mean that people moving to a new area and the professionals supporting them would not have to go through unnecessary multiple assessments of their needs. This can be particularly important for people who want to maintain employment and pursue career opportunities. The Government support this in principle. We are considering the practicalities in the light of the recommendations of the Law Commission and the commission on the funding of care and support. We have recently launched an engagement process with stakeholders to bring together the recommendations of these two commissions, as I have mentioned, and to consider what our priorities should be. The White Paper will set out our conclusions. I think it would be wrong at this stage for me to pre-empt that process, but I take on board the points that were made about portable care packages rather than simply assessments.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

When the Government go through this process, for which I am sure all of us are very grateful, will they bear in mind the cost savings which would emerge from portability, as we are looking for cost savings in this area?

[Earl Howe]

I am sure that is a factor that should be taken fully into account. If I can tell the noble Lord more about that when I return to the department, I shall be very pleased to do so.

The noble Lord, Lord Warner, whom I thank for his work on the Dilnot commission, talked about portability and flagged his intention to debate this when we go back into Committee on the Health and Social Care Bill. As I have just indicated, we intend to signal our response to the Law Commission’s report and the Dilnot commission in this area when we publish our White Paper. I feel that the Bill that we are debating in Committee at the moment is not the right vehicle into which to shoehorn a recommendation like this. It needs the right legislative vehicle. Nevertheless, I am not shying away from the kind of debate that the noble Lord signalled he would introduce.

Integrated care has been mentioned by a number of noble Lords, including my noble friend Lady Tyler and the noble Baroness, Lady Wall. We recognise the importance of integrated working between the NHS, social care and public health, and the benefits that this can have for individuals and their families. It is important for good outcomes and for achieving value for money, as a number of noble Lords have indicated. We have debated this theme more than once during Committee stage of the Health and Social Care Bill. We want to ensure that local authorities and NHS bodies have the flexibility that they need to work together at a local level. The health Bill will ensure that key flexibilities, such as support for pooled budgets under Section 75 of the Health Act 2006, are translated into the reformed system.

My noble friend Lady Tyler referred to telecare, which is an exciting area. The previous Government instigated the largest randomised control trial of telehealth and telecare anywhere in the world—the whole system demonstrator project—which will provide the gold standard evidence for which everyone is looking. It has been one of the most complex studies ever undertaken by the department but the early results are very promising. Evaluation is ongoing but we are nearly ready to publish headlines that will help decision-makers here and across the world.

My noble friend also spoke about the need to ensure that we have a high quality social care workforce. Of course, she is right. The department is spending nearly £300 million on the training and development of the social care workforce this year. The ONS labour force survey shows that 67 per cent of people working as care assistants and home carers have a level 2 qualification or above. Data show a steadily improving picture with regard to the number of people who hold level 2 or above qualifications. In the current financial year, the department is providing approximately £28 million of funding to Skills4Care for the training and development of the adult social care workforce.

My noble friend Lady Tyler once again referred to the importance of supporting carers. We fully agree with her that the carers’ strategy refresh document prioritises future actions to ensure the best possible outcomes for carers and those they support. We have made available an additional £400 million to the NHS over four years to provide carers with breaks from their caring responsibilities to sustain them in their caring role.

A number of noble Lords have expressed the view that a broad political consensus is emerging on long-term care reform. I genuinely hope that that is so. I can say to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, who put the question about cross-party dialogue, that we remain committed to a process of dialogue with the Official Opposition, given the importance of this issue, which is why the Secretary of State wrote to the shadow Secretary of State for Health inviting him in his new role to continue in this dialogue.

As she mentioned, the Secretary of State has received a response from the shadow Health Secretary and the shadow Minister for Care Services stating their commitment and intention to continue with the process. We very much want to seek to build consensus around an issue as important as this. We will of course ensure that sufficient resources are provided to support talks. But, as the noble Baroness will recognise, Ministers must remain ultimately responsible for the decisions that we take. She also mentioned the letter that my right honourable friend wrote to Andy Burnham on 8 November. On the same day, a letter was received from Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall. It outlined their commitment to resuming talks, which we welcome. We are considering the questions and conditions in that letter. I hope that my right honourable friend will be in a position to reply formally very soon.

Of course, there are a number of other priorities for social care. We need to improve the quality of care that people experience to ensure that those with care needs have the best possible outcomes. Services need to be more personalised, more people need more choice about their care so that social care is designed around the needs and wants of the individual, not around the convenience of systems, and we need to push for better integration, as noble Lords have indicated. We need to support more prevention by early intervention so that we can avoid people deteriorating unnecessarily and allow them to remain independent as long as possible, and we need to create a more diverse and responsive care market so that people can buy the services that best meet their needs. All these are our priorities. I hope that the engagement we are now in will find the solutions to those. This is an issue for our times as our society gets older. How we look after people with care needs will become ever more important. We now have an opportunity to get this right, and we must not miss it.

EU: Economy

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I do not accept the very simplistic idea that we are headed for a two-speed Europe. There is already a variable geometry in Europe in other areas apart from the euro, such as justice and home affairs, where there are different arrangements for certain member states. The critical lesson out of all this is that the UK must stick to its own fiscal deficit reduction policies because it is those which are giving us the benefit of 10-year interest rates today at 2.2 per cent, whereas countries such as Italy, which had interest rates very similar to ours before the financial crisis, have interest rates not at 2.2 per cent but at 6.2 per cent. So we must stick to keeping our own house in order.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, further to the question put by the Minister’s noble friend Lord Higgins, have the Government given any thought to the cost of returning first Greece and in due course the other crippled economies of the eurozone to their national currencies and, if necessary, supporting that transition with some variation of the Marshall plan? Have they thought about that concept, compared with continuing to throw unknown trillions at a project which cannot be saved?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, the first thing to understand is that the UK is not part of the stability mechanism that the eurozone is putting in place, and we will not contribute to specific bailouts. On the other hand, the eurozone takes about 40 per cent of our exports and it continues to be the principal interest of the UK Government to make sure that the eurozone and the whole of the EU prosper and grow, to the benefit of our own economy.

Abattoirs

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, there is no direct health implication. What has happened over the past few years is that the costs of regulation have progressively been borne by the Food Standards Agency, as opposed to the industry. There has been a decision taken in principle that the regulator should not subsidise the industry that it regulates. That is the reason for the review of the charging arrangements.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, did the noble Lord indicate in his Answer, and will he confirm, that we owe this folly more to our lords and masters in Brussels than to our very own department for the ruin of agriculture? Does he think that the British people would have voted in 1975 to stay in what they were assured was a Common Market if they had thought that this sort of folly was going to be visited upon them by Brussels?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it is quite correct that European legislation requires the national competent authority to carry out official controls in order to verify that food businesses comply with food hygiene requirements. EU law requires the competent authority to charge food businesses for meat hygiene and welfare at slaughter—the official controls—and sets minimum charging rates. Having said that, I do not think that there is any self-respecting country that would wish to neglect meat hygiene, which has a direct implication for human health.