(7 years ago)
Lords ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Thornton
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the report of the Nursing and Midwifery Council published on 2 November which found that the number of nurses and midwives joining its register from the European Union had dropped by 89 per cent over the last year, how they plan to make good the anticipated shortfall.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Lord O'Shaughnessy) (Con)
My Lords, the Government value immensely the contribution of EU staff working across the NHS and social care systems. We are committed to ensuring a clear pathway to permanent residency for these EU citizens. The figures in the NMC report represent a 0.2% decrease in those currently registered. Meanwhile, there are more nurses on our wards since last year. Numbers will increase because of a 25% increase in training places.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for that response, although I think it borders on the complacent. I asked this Question because the statistics are very stark and concerning. Although we know that registration of UK-based nurses is falling—by 9% last year—the decrease from the European Union varies between 70% and 95%. That means that instead of there being 1,966 nurses from Spain, for example, the number has dropped to 104 in the last year. The numbers from Poland have dropped from 305 to 34. Even from Ireland the numbers have dropped, from 381 to 204. That looks, with winter looming, like a crisis might be looming. Given that it takes at least three years or so to train nurses and midwives, I return to my Question: how will the Government make up the immediate shortfall and replace those nurses and midwives that come to us from the European Union?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
I agree with the noble Baroness that there is a need for more nurses. That is why we are introducing more training places and new routes into nursing, such as the nursing apprenticeship. I know that she is particularly concerned about EU national nurses and health visitors. I think noble Lords will be reassured that between June 2016 and June 2017, there was an overall 5% increase in the total number of staff from the EU within the NHS, which is welcome. The one area, as I said, that has fallen marginally—by about 162 in practice—is in nursing and health visitors. That was significantly due to the new language test that was introduced. That is something that the NMC is looking at to make sure we are getting nurses capable of practising in this country to come here.
Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)
My Lords, as the Minister knows, citizens of the EU who have spent five years working in the UK can avail themselves of the opportunity to apply for a right to remain permanently in the UK. That is now unclear. Will he announce that those who have been granted the permanent right to remain in Britain as EU citizens will be entitled to stay and work here? That would be a good way to start building confidence.
Lord O'Shaughnessy
My Lords, the rules as they are apply, so those who are eligible to apply for a right to remain can do so. We are talking about providing a path for those who are not yet at that point, now or in the future, to achieve settled status to provide the kind of certainty that we know. I understand that this causes some people to pause for thought about whether they should stay.
Lord Naseby (Con)
Will my noble friend ensure that the answer he has just given is publicised in every NHS hospital in the United Kingdom? There is not that depth of understanding in the average medical practitioner, nurse or administrator in our hospitals that he has so clearly communicated. Will he also reconfirm that the number of training nurses is going up, as I think he said, and is considerably higher than it has been during the previous decade? If that is the situation, it is surely to be greatly welcomed.
Lord O'Shaughnessy
I agree with my noble friend’s point on communication. I shall certainly look at whether we can do that better as an NHS. It is why I do not miss an opportunity from the Dispatch Box to say how much those nurses are valued and how much we want them to stay. That is what the Government are committed to doing. I mentioned the increase in the number of training places which my noble friend has pointed out. New UCAS data out today show that the picture is slightly better even than when we talked about it last week. Although the total is slightly down on last year, it is the second-highest number of nurses recruited in the history of nursing being a degree profession.
Lord Rennard (LD)
My Lords, is this not a problem particularly given that 35,000 nurses and midwives left the profession last year? Does the Minister agree with the Royal College of Nursing that the problem is made worse by the loss of student bursaries, deterring more mature students from applying to train as nurses and denying the profession the benefit of their valuable life experience?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
Retention is critical. A number of nurses have gone through return-to-practice programmes to make sure they can come back into the profession. I recognise that today’s UCAS data show that while the number of applications has risen among the under-21s, it has fallen among the over-21s. It is important to point out that financial support is available for those people, in terms of both help with childcare and extra financial support. Now, for the first time, we are providing funding for second degrees if they are in nursing.
Lord Tomlinson (Lab)
The Minister said clearly that he never misses an opportunity to say how much we value our nurses. Does he accept that “value” is best recognised in a tangible form rather than in words that have no meaning?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
I think that words do have meaning, and it is important not to miss the opportunity to say how much we value those nurses who have come from the European Union as well as all staff in the NHS. One example of the value with which we hold them is the announcement in the Budget that the Chancellor will fund an Agenda for Change pay settlement for nurses.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on the increase in the number of training places, but can he give the House an assurance today on the figures for recruitment and retention of nurses in rural areas and, in particular, that their travel is fully paid for when they drive round remote parts of the country such as North Yorkshire and other isolated areas that they have to cover?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
Yes, absolutely—travel costs should be accounted for, as long as they are incurred in the course of an ordinary working day. I should also point out that extra travel costs are now supported as part of the student finance package for those who need to travel for study.
Lord Watts (Lab)
My Lords, given the shortage of medical staff right across the board, should not the Government exempt them from quotas so that we can guarantee that we will have the medical staff and support staff that we need in our hospitals?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
In the long run, we want to be in a position to provide more of our staff domestically. There are concerns about the fact that we recruit from other countries, not least developing countries—I do not think that that is a long-term, sustainable position. In addition to the additional nurse training places that I mentioned, more medical training places for doctors are coming through, so we will be achieving that position in future.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)
My Lords, do the Government accept that the £10 billion per annum in net cash that we shall no longer pay to Brussels after Brexit is equivalent to the annual salaries of some 1,000 nurses every day?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
The noble Lord’s mental maths are far better than mine. I agree that it will provide for the possibility of yet more funding for the NHS, which is something that this Government have delivered in the past seven years.
Lord Turnberg (Lab)
My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister can help clear up my confusion. He is telling us that the number of training places is increasing while my noble friend Lady Thornton suggested that the number of people coming into those places is decreasing. What is the correct interpretation? Have we got more, fewer, or what?
Lord O'Shaughnessy
I will do my best to provide clarity. If you look at nurse training places in universities, in 2016 the number was 3% higher than this year. One reason for that has obviously been the change in the financing arrangements. However, this year still represents the second-highest number since it became a degree profession. If we look to the future, from 2018 onwards there will be 5,000 more funded clinical placements which will enable the number of nurse training places to increase by some 20% to 25%.