Brexit: Costs

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We will find that out when we find out the outcome of the negotiations.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, is it not somewhat grotesque of the eurocrats to try to extract more money from us in pursuit of continuing free trade than we owe under our present commitments, when that free trade is so much more in the interests of EU exporters than it is in ours? Is not the underlying problem that the eurocrats’ absolute priority is to keep their failing project of European integration alive because it pays them so well, no matter how much damage it does to the real people of Europe?

[Lord Bates]

I am not going to respond in the terms that the noble Lord has set out because it is important that we are in a serious negotiation not with enemies but with people with whom we want to be friends. We want a constructive relationship with them in the future and it behoves us to recognise that in our language and the way we go about the negotiations. The Prime Minister’s speech in Florence was a textbook example of that.

Women: Board Membership

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 17th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

My noble friend is quite right that the Government, and indeed wider society, should encourage businesses to look at this and to recognise their own self-interest in the 21st century.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Baroness Gould of Potternewton]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, I think there is time for both if we have the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, very quickly and then Labour.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, as a supporter of women on boards, I have to ask whether we really need the edict from Brussels which—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

Noble Lords may not be aware of it, but it would make them mandatory. Can the noble Baroness tell us how the so-called “yellow card” issued by your Lordships’ House and seven other EU Houses of Parliament against that edict is progressing? Is subsidiarity winning or losing as usual on this one?

[Baroness Northover]

The directive that is potentially coming from the EU is a useful discipline. We need British business to demonstrate that it does not need to be applied in the United Kingdom because we have already made sufficient progress.

Herbal Medicines

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Grand Committee

Asked By

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they will fulfil their commitment to establish a statutory register for practitioners supplying unlicensed herbal medicines.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I declare an interest as unpaid patron of the UK’s Register of Chinese Herbal Medicine and as someone who is nearly cured by a course of Chinese herbs of a nasty skin complaint which western medicine finds difficult to deal with. I am also the leader of the United Kingdom Independence Party in your Lordships’ House and would be failing in my duty as such if I did not point out that our herbal medicine industry and those who depend on it owe their present predicament entirely to our membership of the European Union.

In that regard, my first question for the Minister is: why does the EU’s law of “subsidiarity” not apply in this case? Are the Government really saying that we as a nation are incapable of deciding for ourselves the rules governing the manufacture and use of herbal medicines, but instead have to be bossed around by Brussels?

The sorry saga starts with a new directive in 2001, number 83 of that year, which was amended by Directive 2004/24/EC. Article 5(1) of Directive 2001/83/EC contained a chink of light. It goes as follows:

“A Member State may, in accordance with legislation in force and to fulfil special needs, exclude from the provisions of this Directive medicinal products supplied in response to a bona fide unsolicited order, formulated in accordance with the specifications of an authorised health-care professional and for use by an individual patient under his direct personal responsibility”.

So the prospect arose of having to set up statutory regulation for our herbalists. Since then there have been two Department of Health committees and two public consultations, all of which have reported massively in favour of herbal medicines generally, and statutory regulation in particular. This is not surprising. A survey commissioned by the Government’s medicines regulator, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency—MHRA—found that 3 million of our people had consulted a practitioner of Chinese herbal medicine and 25 million had bought herbal medicines over the counter in the previous two years.

The happy result of all these expensive committees and public consultations was that in February 2011 the Secretary of State for Health, Mr Andrew Lansley, made the following commitment to the House of Commons:

“When the European Directive 2004/24/EC takes full effect in April 2011 it will no longer be legal for herbal practitioners in the UK to source unlicensed manufactured herbal medicines for their patients. This Government wish to ensure that the public can continue to have access to these products. In order to achieve this, while at the same time complying with EU law, some form of statutory regulation will be necessary and I have therefore decided to ask the Health Professions Council to establish a statutory register for practitioners supplying unlicensed herbal medicines”.—[Official Report, Commons, 16/2/11; col. 84WS.]

That, you would have thought, was that. But it was not. The purpose of this debate is to discover why not. Why have the Government not set up the statutory regulation they so clearly promised they would?

Here I have to enter the world of rumour and conjecture because the department has behaved in an unusually secretive and unhelpful way. For months it has refused to answer those questions or indeed to meet Mr Michael McIntyre, chairman of the European Herbal & Traditional Medicine Practitioners Association, and myself, to discuss these questions and their answers—and indeed the solution.

As far as I can see, this paralysis has been caused by Poland. It seems that Poland had been misusing the “special needs” provision of Article 5(1) to permit imports of cheap unauthorised medicinal products which contained the same active ingredients, dosage and form as drugs that were currently authorised for sale in that country. So Poland had been approving the import and sale of unapproved drugs, which were not medically essential for a specific patient, and thus breaking EU law. The EU Commission took Poland to the Luxembourg Court, which duly found against Poland.

It appears that it is this judgment which sent our Department of Health into its present state of funk, although of course our position is entirely different and we told the department so. However, rumour had reached the department that the Commission regarded Mr Lansley’s statement and promise to set up statutory regulation as a rebellious ploy to get round its wonderful EU edict. If the UK went ahead, perhaps we would also end up in Luxembourg, where the result is of course a foregone conclusion.

Faced with this situation, Mr McIntyre decided to take independent legal advice from Mr David Reissner of Charles Russell LLP. Mr Reissner is an acknowledged expert in pharmacy and healthcare law. He is chairman of the Welsh pharmacy appeal panel and a deputy district judge. So he knows his stuff. His opinion is clear on two issues. The first is that herbalists have to be statutorily regulated if they are to be authorised health professionals and thus have access to manufactured medicines for individual patients under Article 5(1) of the directive. Secondly, it is wholly wrong to fear that the ECJ’s ruling against Poland for misuse of Article 5(1) could somehow be applied to us and block our own statutory regulation. The Polish case is irrelevant to our national position.

I sent this opinion to the noble Earl, Lord Howe, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the DHS in your Lordships’ House, on 8 April and once again asked for a meeting at the department with Mr McIntyre and the relevant Minister who is, I think, Dr Dan Poulter MP. I hoped that such a meeting would have rendered this debate unnecessary, but answer came there none and when I pressed the noble Earl, he comforted me with the information that my letter might be fast-tracked and therefore answered within 28 days—not much help for this debate. What sort of world do these people live in?

Therefore, my second question to the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, who has my sympathy as none of this is her fault, is: when will Dr Poulter and those who advise him meet Mr McIntyre, and perhaps myself, to sort the whole thing out? Would it not be helpful if a number of noble Lords who are to speak today and who are interested in this subject came too, or will the Government take the unusual step of refusing to meet parliamentarians? What reason can there possibly be for continuing to refuse such a meeting?

There is much at stake here for the millions who benefit from herbal medicines for a range of common ailments which are not particularly well managed by conventional medicine. If statutory regulation fails to go ahead, a wide range of herbal medicines supplied by practitioners to their patients will be lost. The directive has already stopped practitioners prescribing herbal medicines made by manufacturers and herbal suppliers for prescriptions to individual patients. Also stopped have been third-party herbal prescription services which supply individual prescriptions to named patients at the practitioner’s request. Without statutory regulation, all that remains are herbal medicines prepared by practitioners on their own premises. This will ultimately put a great many practitioners and their suppliers out of business. Statutory regulation will instead provide much needed support for these thousands of small and medium-sized enterprises.

Besides all that, herbal medicine is cost-effective and should be encouraged to go on reducing the growing NHS drug bill. That is, of course, why it is hated by the pharmaceutical companies which appear to go to any lengths to snuff it out. However, I will say no more about that now because I am on best behaviour. Statutory regulation will ensure that the public are protected from poorly trained or bogus practitioners and from substandard herbal remedies. Without it much activity may go underground. Of course, I admit that there is the occasional unfortunate case with herbal medicines but they are minuscule, microscopic and invisible compared with the thousands of patients who are mistreated under our National Health Service. Statutory regulation will also support the professional education which has been developed in this country to a high degree standard. It is also supported by the MHRA itself.

It only remains for me to thank other noble Lords who are to speak in this debate. In those, I include the noble Lord, Lord Taverne, whose enthusiasm for herbal medicine is, I am told, less than 100% wholehearted. However, we are a debating Chamber and differing views are, therefore, welcome. I conclude by saying to him and all those who doubt the efficacy of herbal medicine that aspirin is derived from the bark of the willow tree.

I look forward to the Minister’s answers to my two questions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, for securing this debate. I thoroughly enjoyed his speech, and as the last debate of the day, he made sure that we are all wide awake.

I recognise that the Government’s progress in establishing a statutory register for practitioners supplying unlicensed herbal medicines is of interest both to Members of this House, as has been demonstrated today, as well as to consumers and practitioners who use these products. I am glad that the noble Lord was assisted by a herbal remedy.

The issue of whether herbalists and traditional Chinese medicine practitioners should be statutorily regulated has been debated, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, will be well aware, since at least the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee report in 2000. The Government appreciate that there is, understandably, strong support from many herbal practitioners for the statutory regulation of this group, and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, has made the case as well. In addition, many consumers of herbal medicines wish to access unlicensed manufactured herbal medicines. As noble Lords will be aware, on 16 February 2011, the Government announced that they intended to take forward the regulation of herbal medicine practitioners and traditional Chinese medicine practitioners specifically with regard to the use of unlicensed herbal medicines within their practice.

At the time that the decision to take forward the regulation of this group was made, the Government’s intention was to allow herbal practitioners to once again lawfully source unlicensed manufactured herbal medicines. That is something which practitioners have not been able to do since April 2011, when a European directive made it illegal for herbal practitioners in the UK to source unlicensed manufactured herbal medicines for their patients.

Where the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, criticised the EU, others may well feel that the EU can offer a level of protection, depending on one’s point of view. Perhaps I can address here the issue of subsidiarity. The noble Lord suggested that this meant that it was not applying to herbal medicines. The principle of subsidiarity does indeed apply. The directive makes provision to facilitate the free movement of herbal medicines while ensuring a high level of safe public health. It was thought that the directive strikes the right balance of rules to facilitate free movement to the EU level, while maintaining flexibility through domestic implementing regulations.

Since the announcement in February 2011, the Department of Health has been working with officials in the devolved Administrations and the Health and Care Professions Council to look at establishing a statutory register for herbal practitioners supplying unlicensed herbal medicines, along with a strengthened system for regulating medicinal products, to enable consumers to have safe access to unlicensed manufactured herbal medicines.

This process continues to be complex and lengthy and, with regret, I must say that we are not in a position to consult on proposed legislation. My noble friend Lord Colwyn asked about what “going out to consult” meant. As announced in the Written Ministerial Statement in February 2011, any proposed statutory legislation has to go out to an open and public consultation. I hope that that clarifies the issue and reassures him. However, I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, will appreciate that it would be irresponsible for the Government to undertake to alter the status of a group of workers without first ensuring that the policy and final decision offers an appropriate form of regulation and ensures the proposals adequately address the risks posed to consumers of unlicensed herbal medicines.

My noble friend Lord Colwyn flags the serious dangers associated with all medicines. Nothing is risk-free, whether it is conventional or complementary medicine, or doing nothing at all. That is why it is important that there is careful regulation and consideration of all these areas.

We recognise the need to balance the economic wish of practitioners to continue to supply unlicensed herbal medicines and the wish of some consumers to have continued access to them against any risks identified. We understand that there is a strong desire in the field to bring the matter to a conclusion both for practitioners and the public. However, it is clear that there is a potential risk to public health where practitioners supply unlicensed herbal medicines which may be potent. For example, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency has recently become aware that an unlicensed herbal product containing aconite, a prescription-only medicine in the UK which can cause serious and potentially fatal adverse reactions if consumed, is being marketed and prescribed by traditional Chinese medicine practitioners for the treatment of migraine. It is therefore crucial that the nature of the regulation in the sector is carefully thought through.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, does not the noble Baroness agree that in this case, which was flagged up in the Daily Mail the other day, statutory registration of the people who supply the product would be helpful?

[Baroness Northover]

Various noble Lords have made that point.

My noble friend Lord Colwyn asked whether the Government have in fact dropped the commitment to regulate. The Government recognise that there is a body of evidence about the public health risks associated with herbal medicines. It is important that the department does not proceed with the statutory regulation of any group, including herbal practitioners, unless we are sure that this will provide the necessary safeguards for patients. In other words, it is being looked at very carefully—whether the balance of regulation helps or hinders. Noble Lords have heard various views expressed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

I think that what I should do is continue with what I was going to inform noble Lords about. It may be that that will satisfy them in this regard. They are seeking an answer right now which I do not think I can give.

I should point out that while the Government are working through the issues relevant to this policy, this does not affect the availability of over-the-counter licensed herbal medicines. Significantly, there are now more than 240 products registered under the Traditional Herbal Medicines Registration Scheme. In addition, practitioners can continue lawfully to prepare herbal formulations on their own premises for use with their own patients. I also want to make it clear that the previous announcement made by the Government and any steps taken to regulate herbal practitioners should not be seen as an endorsement of the efficacy of herbal medicines either way. The Government do not have a view on the efficacy of herbal medicines that do not have a full marketing authorisation; in other words, a product licence. However, the Government do recognise that members of the public may wish to purchase complementary or alternative treatments, including herbal medicines. The Department of Health would always advise someone considering the use of complementary or alternative medicines to find a practitioner who is a member of an organisation that has set robust standards of qualification, an ethical code of practice, and a requirement for appropriate public indemnity insurance.

As I stated earlier, I regret that the Government are still not in a position to go out to public consultation on this matter, but we want to make sure that any proposals are proportionate and fit for purpose.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, in that case, perhaps the noble Baroness, before she finishes her remarks, would be good enough to answer the point made by me, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and other noble Lords. Will the Minister concerned and his officials meet interested Peers and Mr McIntyre? If not, why not?

[Baroness Northover]

Funnily enough, I was just going to get on to the point about a meeting. The noble Lord will be well aware that I am filling in for my noble friend Lord Howe. I am very sorry that it is me rather than my noble friend, with whom I am sure the noble Lord would rather have disputed this. However, my noble friend might very well be detained by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, in the Chamber and so therefore he is potentially otherwise engaged. My noble friend Lord Howe is, as the noble Lord will know, most forthcoming in terms of engagement and meetings. I will pass on the request for meetings. I am informed that my noble friend has not refused to meet noble Lords—knowing my noble friend, I absolutely believe that—and the department will be in touch shortly. I hope that that reassures the noble Lord, Lord Pearson.

The noble Lord suggested that other speakers in this debate should be included. I was very struck by that, so I look forward to hearing reports of such a meeting, which clearly must include my noble friend Lord Taverne.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover]

As I say, my noble friend Lord Howe is happy to meet people and no doubt this will be discussed further. Maybe I had better hurry up and conclude because I think I am about to go beyond time. Unless I hurry up, nobody will have a chance to say anything else.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, we have 20 minutes on the clock.

EU: Budget

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

This report was published a couple of days ago, on Tuesday. DfID will produce a considered response, which will be scrutinised by Parliament. It is worth flagging up that, as my noble friend rightly points out, this looks at aid since 1995 in terms of road building and at whether the balance between road maintenance and road building has been sustained as it should have been. In the United Kingdom we know that when you are in constrained financial circumstances a balance must be struck between those two areas. I am sure that we can learn many lessons; nevertheless, it is not as though the balance between those issues is not also felt in other countries.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that if current proposals made by the President of the European Council to freeze the levels of spending on EU development aid are implemented, aid will suffer a larger reduction than absolutely any other area of the EU budget and that the UK will see a decrease in its current contribution to the European Development Fund? These are two very important factors. Would it not be perverse if the effect of a commendably ring-fenced UK development budget was diminished by a huge 11% cut in the EU development budget?

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

My Lords—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford)]

My Lords, I think that the House would like to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, first.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. Do the Government agree with the think tank, Open Europe, that only 46% of EU aid reaches really poor countries compared with 74% of our own aid? Have the Government worked out the cost of churning our aid through Brussels? Are we really incapable of controlling it all ourselves?

[Baroness Northover]

I have just given an answer saying that the EDF is very poverty-focused. What the EU is doing is looking somewhat wider, but that is a worthwhile project as well.

European Union Bill

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

I would never seek to claim that over the noble Lord. When he says that votes for prisoners had nothing to do with the Luxembourg court but came from the Strasbourg court, does he agree that under Article 6 of the Lisbon treaty the European Union has signed up to the jurisdiction and generality of the Strasbourg court? They are connected.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

There is a very slight nexus because of that recent linkage. The noble Lord will surely know that the European convention, the European court and the Council of Europe as a whole come from an earlier stage of European integration in the late 1940s and early 1950s that was very different from the treaty of Rome and the more integrationist stage that came at that point. I hope he will look through the debate in the other place on votes for prisoners and, alas, see the enormous ignorance of those who failed to see that distinction.

So what do we have? We essentially see a failure of leadership. If there is a disconnect, it is surely in part because of the Government’s failure of leadership in trying to put over the case for Europe, as the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, did so eloquently. If only there would be something positive about Europe from this Government. The only thing I have seen was from Mr David Lidington, who is a very able Minister, tucked away in a Written Answer on 10 January.

I come to the specific proposals, and I shall be brief because I can adopt everything that the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, said about the referendums. If it were in the judgment of the Government of the day against our interests, we would veto it in any event. If the Government seriously thought that it was in our interest, they would come out against this great cloud of ignorance that has, in fact, been created partially by the Government. In fact, there are unlikely to be many examples.

As for the referendums, excluded from them are the accession treaties, and who can doubt that one of the largest influences on our country would be, for example, the accession of Turkey? Yet there would be no referendum in respect of Turkey. A number of the transfers would benefit us—one thinks of the foot and mouth matter and QMV in the past—and the definition of “significant”. The sovereignty clause has been mentioned by many colleagues. It is essentially symbolic. It is gesture politics. No Parliament can bind its successor. It is superfluous, meaningless and a waste of parliamentary time, and is to be seen only in the context of the Government’s problems with their own Back-Benchers.

The key principle of this Bill appears not to be to be at the heart of Europe but rather them and us, as if we are engaged in a constant struggle against those who wish to conspire against us and our interests, and our need to confound their knavish tricks. In fact, it is a very false picture. It is a gesture to the populist press and step by step, as was the danger during the 1990s, we will be led inexorably along a road to distancing ourselves, or at least to a semi-detached status.

Finally, I am reminded of a distinguished observer of France on the eve of the French Revolution who looked at French aristocrats who were flirting with revolutionary ideas and said very sagely that those who were blowing upon the flames would one day be consumed by them. The Conservative Party is indeed blowing on those flames, and there is a real danger that the public might go for the real thing. There is UKIP, and one day it might find it is indeed consumed by it.

Insurance: Gender Discrimination

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Tuesday 8th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Peston]

My Lords—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, does not this demonstrate that on this occasion the Court behaved as a court of injustice?

[Baroness Verma]

My noble friend raises a good point, but I am afraid that I have to go by the ruling, as we all do as members of the EU.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Lord Lloyd of Berwick]

My Lords—