London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (Amendment) Bill
Debate between Lord Patten and Baroness Garden of Frognal
Baroness Garden of Frognal
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for a characteristically well informed, well considered, enthusiastic and thorough debate. I say also how welcome it was to see the noble Baroness, Lady Billingham, back in her place for a while. We hope to see her again during our debates.
As I said at the outset, the House has a commendable history with the Olympic and Paralympic Games. As noble Lords mentioned, this is typified by the former Olympians and Paralympian in the Chamber today—my noble friends Lord Higgins and Lord Moynihan, and the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, who brought to the debate rare personal experience of the Games and made valuable contributions to the discussion. Of course, my noble friend Lord Moynihan continues his support for Olympic sport through his key involvement in the 2012 Games. I thank also the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, for his well observed and constructive comments—and perhaps congratulate Edinburgh Napier University for fielding two very distinguished contributors to the Olympic debate.
I turn to the questions raised today. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, asked why different arrangements were in place in Scotland for the storage of seized articles. This arises from the different legal systems in England, Wales and Scotland. Prosecutions under regulations in Scotland are different. The pressures on the police in England will be different at key times from those on police in Scotland. Obviously, the vast majority of Games events will be in England, so different approaches will be applicable for different jurisdictions.
The noble Lord asked whether advertising and trading regulations would be amended only in certain circumstances. Certainly, it is our intention that the regulations to be laid shortly will be the first and only set. However, we must acknowledge the possibility that an amendment may be made necessary in unforeseen circumstances such as when there has to be a change of venue. The Bill provides for this. I assure the House that the regulations will be amended only in exceptional circumstances.
There was much debate on the £20,000 fine. The noble Lords, Lord Stevenson, Lord Pendry and Lord Rosser, asked whether we had struck the right balance. The clear advice from the Metropolitan Police Service is that increasing the maximum penalty from £5000 to £20,000 is necessary and proportionate. Organised crime gangs deal in very large sums of money, so the level of fine needs to be a sufficient deterrent. Of course, the £20,000 fine could apply to each member of a gang in certain circumstances. The provisions of the Bill and of the 2006 Act apply only to the 2012 Olympics and Paralympics, not to other sporting events.
One or two noble Lords asked whether the police would be able to cope next year. Obviously, there is a concern here. We will need more discussion in Committee about the Olympic security operation. Police planning is well advanced and the police are confident that they will have the necessary resources and infrastructure in place. I say in reply to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that provincial forces that supply officers to London to assist the Metropolitan Police Service will be fully reimbursed so that their ability to cope with events in their own area will not suffer as a result.
A number of noble Lords have raised concerns about the Olympic route network. We will need to cover these matters in greater depth in Committee. The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, commented on the use of river transport and we acknowledge that the best use of the river is an important part of the transport plans for the Games. We assure noble Lords that the ODA and Transport for London have been and are considering all the issues around traffic management. We had some very good market research on taxis and taxi drivers in this debate and we certainly hope that, as we get closer to the Games, all taxi drivers will be fully informed of the details of travelling around the networks.
My noble friend Lord Addington and other noble Lords raised concerns about ticket touting. Touting only applies to selling tickets for profit, so on that point I can give my noble friend the assurance he seeks that touting is selling Olympic and Paralympic tickets in a public place or in the course of business for the purpose of making a profit, but it does not cover people giving tickets to friends, family or colleagues or selling them tickets at face value. I will say a little bit more about that in due course.
My noble friend also talked about encouraging participation in sport and the sporting legacy, which the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also picked up on, as did others, and of course it is a key part of these Olympics that we have a good sporting legacy to continue the encouragement and enthusiasm which the Olympics and Paralympics will have generated. My noble friend also mentioned the Cultural Olympiad and of course that will be a key part of the legacy and the ongoing interest around the Olympics.
My noble friend Lord Moynihan gave credit to the directors of the ODA and LOCOG, to which we would add the British Olympic Association. He mentioned in particular John Armitt and David Higgins. I have no hesitation in adding congratulations from the Government on the work that they have done to bring about the tremendous success of the building of the venue on time and under budget. We should also pay tribute to my noble friends Lord Moynihan and Lord Coe for all the work that they have done for the organisations they have been chairing in the run-up to these Games.
My noble friend Lord Moynihan commented on the sports legacy and media accreditation. He also raised the point of the facilities fund for local authorities and whether they would be able to pick up the legacies from the Games. There is a £50 million facilities fund open to local authorities to apply for community sports facilities and other such activities linked to the Olympics. On media accreditation, I know that the Minister for Sport has written to my noble friend on this matter and that may well also be something we come back to in Committee.
The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, welcomed the interest in the Games and particularly the friends and families’ tickets, and we are all very grateful that the UK has pioneered this use of tickets to ensure that families and friends are able to watch those close to them competing. Of course, we also pay tribute to all that she has achieved to raise the profile of the Paralympics and to encourage others. She talked about the Olympic route network and its possible difficulties, as indeed have others. There will be as much information as we can find going out as we get closer to the time to make sure that all the details of the ORN are fully understood by those who need to know about them.
My noble friend Lord Higgins talked about passion. I apologise if, in introducing a slightly technical Bill, my opening words were not as passionate as they ought to have been. At this stage we are all enormously enthusiastic about the Olympics and Paralympics. The finer detail of ticket touting and traffic regulations perhaps does not encourage the heart as much as it ought to.
He and the noble Lords, Lord Faulkner, Lord Patten, the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, and other noble Lords all talked with great and passionate interest about the ticketing procedures. They are a matter for LOCOG, which has said that the lead ticket holder must attend. This is a matter for LOCOG; it is not a responsibility of the Government. I am quite sure that the noble Lord, Lord Coe, will wish to respond to the strong feelings which have made themselves felt in the Chamber today about the problems and difficulties of implementing that policy.
The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, mentioned the ballot for the tickets.
Lord Patten
Does my noble friend agree that it would be fitting and seemly if this ticketing issue could be sorted out by LOCOG quickly before it is necessary to air the issue further on the Floor of your Lordships’ House?
Baroness Garden of Frognal
I thank my noble friend for that. We will be talking to LOCOG and would hope that we might have further news or details before we come to the Committee stage. I know that a lot of thought went into the balance of access to the Games and the security implications. As a number of noble Lords have said, there are intense security implications over these Games. Getting the balance right is a delicate matter for consideration. Undoubtedly, it will be a subject for further discussion.
The ballot for tickets was also raised. Once again, it is a matter for LOCOG. I am not trying to pass the buck here, but these are not matters for the Government. It was always the difficulty of trying to ensure that the tickets were sold and that we had a really good attendance at events, which has not been the case at some Olympic Games held in other places. It was an astonishing and delightful surprise that the British public was so manifestly enthusiastic when the tickets went on sale. Anyone who had read the media in the run-up to the sale would not necessarily have assumed that people would be so enthusiastic about tickets. Inevitably, with that comes the disappointment of those who were not successful in the ballot. But, once again, I would not wish us to focus entirely on the disappointment and that which has denied people the opportunity of the Games. There will be a number of other opportunities when people will be able to buy tickets for particular events. However, I would stress again that this is not within the remit of the Bill and is a matter for LOCOG.