Football Governance Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Committee stage
Monday 2nd December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mann (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciate that it is a little unconventional to speak to the amendment, but I would like to make a few comments to the mover of the amendment and the Minister. The case was made that this is all about small clubs. I have met very many clubs outside of the Premier League and discussed this issue with them. They have raised many issues and changes that they would like to see, some of which might be controversial in the football world or in government but not in relation to this regulation Bill. I have not yet come across any club outside of the Premier League that has said that it is worried or opposes this Bill—not one. Perhaps the Minister might like to reflect on that.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Jackson of Peterborough for moving his Amendment 16. It has been well worth having a debate on this on its own because his short and simple amendment, if inserted into the Bill, would represent a vital step towards ensuring that the regulation of English football was both fair and economically responsible. It would require the independent football regulator to consider the potential economic harms of overregulation.

As my noble friend so eloquently established, overregulation is an issue that can choke off investment and disrupt growth in many industries. It can also, as my noble friend Lord Maude of Horsham powerfully reminded us by invoking the example of Brighton and Hove Albion, prohibit the visionaries and the innovators who help to drive industries and sectors forward. None of us wants to see that harmful effect happening in the case of this new regulator and the example of football.

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[Lord Mann (Lab)]

I was a member of that group and heavily involved in that work. Will the noble Lord reflect on the fact that all of its recommendations request that the regulator, the FCA, regulate more toughly and more appropriately, not less and more weakly, including the cases involving football that I am personally very involved in? That was a case for more and stronger regulation, not less.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention and for mentioning that. The point remains that it would be beneficial for us to look at that report on the way in which the FCA is doing its work to see whether it is doing what Parliament asked it to do when it was set up and to see whether we agree with the points that the all-party group, of which he is a member, made in its recent report.

As a number of noble Lords from across the House have said in our debate on this group, the amendment simply requires the regulator to have regard to the risks inherent when regulating a large industry such as football. I am grateful to my noble friends Lord Moynihan and Lord Maude of Horsham for the benefit of their considerable expertise and to my noble friend Lord Hayward for going so forensically through the impact assessment published by the Minister’s department.

My noble friend Lord Jackson’s Amendment 16 represents another guardrail for the regulator to use to focus its attention when exercising its functions. It would complement some of the other amendments that I have tabled and which we have been looking at. Such simple insertions of text into the Bill may be criticised as unnecessary, but they are important. The language that we use when establishing in law new public bodies and new regulators is of supreme importance. It creates a starting point from which that body will grow or change and be investigated by all-party groups and Select Committees. What that starting point looks like and how it is clearly defined has the potential to shape its future trajectory. We are looking at a regulator we hope will do its work very successfully for generations to come. Surely, we want that trajectory to enable future growth and innovation—future visionaries—and to remain free from mission creep and expansion into areas which we do not want to see it moving in.

The proposed model of regulation in the Bill will require the frequent submission of reports and financial plans. These will, as per the licensing conditions and as per our debate on this group, all have to be approved before a regulated club is granted a licence and are a condition for it maintaining that licence. The monitoring and collection of that information will naturally require a large number of staff to help comply with the new regulation. Added to the costs of the levy, this could have damaging effects on regulated clubs—damaging effects, as my noble friend Lord Maude of Horsham and others powerfully set out, that would be felt most keenly by those at the lower end of the pyramid.

That is also particularly evident in the provisions in the Bill that require clubs which are no longer regulated, by virtue of their relegation, to continue to comply with the duties set out. Part 5, for instance, states that some of these duties will be applicable for up to 10 years after the club has been regulated. This ratchet effect means that clubs could still be required to submit a whole host of information to the regulator, even when they have diminished resources because they have dropped below the lower limit of the regulatory ambit envisaged by the Bill. I hope that we can all see the potential for harms here and the risks of those harms growing.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Bolton, for drawing the Committee’s attention to her Amendment 72. We should all take a careful look at it in light of the debate that we have had. We will touch on it when we come to that group later on, but I appreciate that it is an attempt to make that sort of regulatory burden easier on clubs. When we come to it, I will ask her more on how her amendment envisages the regulator potentially paying some money to clubs. I will be interested to hear her set that out, but that is for another group.

Football is not only an extremely popular pastime but a vital part of our economy, and the financial health of clubs has to be protected, as my noble friend Lord Jackson’s Amendment 16 seeks to do. By mandating a thorough assessment of the financial implications of the new regulator’s regulatory actions, his amendment would guarantee that clubs’ sustainability would never be overlooked in the pursuit of regulation or reform.

The requirement for regular reports to be submitted to the Secretary of State and laid before Parliament would add to the Bill’s parliamentary oversight, which it currently lacks. It would enhance the transparency of the new regime that we will be bringing in through this law and allow for prompt corrective action, if needed. That is an approach which aligns perfectly with Conservative values, but one which I hope would garner support from every corner of your Lordships’ House. As my noble friend Lady Brady has reminded us, the Prime Minister has recently spoken, to my mind encouragingly, about the risks of overregulation and the need for growth. I hope that these points will resonate with the Benches opposite and with the Minister too.

My noble friend’s amendment seeks to safeguard the future of football while maintaining accountability to Parliament. I know that he would have tabled an amendment such as this if we were still in the last Parliament. If I had found myself at the Dispatch Box opposite, I would have been responding to it. I must say that I would have looked very favourably on it. I think it seeks to strike the right balance between regulation and the economic vitality and viability of football clubs. I hope the Minister will look favourably on it as well.

Football Governance Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Committee stage
Monday 2nd December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mann (Lab)]

I hope that not all fans agree with my supporters’ group, because we have a very distinct approach from other fan groups. My point is that there is a range of groups and that different fan groups have different perspectives, interests and ideals. Therefore, to attempt to define them in the Bill is so complex as to be impossible. That is why it is sensible to take the approach that the Government are taking: one that has some flexibility built in.

I will not go into great detail on the different kinds of fan groups. I believe that West Ham has nine, and you could argue about how many we have because there is the question of whether some are really fan groups or not. That is the complexity—and they have different perspectives.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I will not prolong the discussion any further; it is important that we hear from the Minister instead. As we do so, I hope that we hear from her on the tension between the need for flexibility, which I understand, and the need for clarity so that the duties on the clubs, which are successful businesses, and on the regulator, which is a powerful new body, are also specified. We need that so that everybody, when they follow the Bill when it becomes an Act of Parliament, is clear on what they have to do, whether they are speaking to the fan group of the noble Lord, Lord Mann, or another about each of those duties.

Football: Abuse and Violence

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Monday 12th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mann]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with football authorities about abuse and violence directed against referees and other match day officials.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay) (Con)]

My Lords, His Majesty’s Government are clear that all forms of antisocial behaviour, abuse and assault against match officials, whether on or off the pitch, are completely unacceptable. The Government regularly discuss the measures being taken by the football authorities to stamp out this behaviour and will continue to press for action against the small minority of people who act in this way.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

There are a large number of 14 to 17 year-old children—boys and girls—who are referees. The Football Association tells me that it is 35% of registered referees. Despite their age, these children receive abuse from parents and coaches—from adults. In some cases, when that happens they have to go, without support, into a decentralised system run by the FA and face the person who has abused them. Does the Minister agree that the FA needs a centralised system and that the first principle for these children should be safeguarding, not the football systems that currently prevail?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The noble Lord raises an important issue. One of the great powers of sport is that it brings people of all ages and all backgrounds together. Of course, we want everybody who takes part to have a fulfilling and enjoyable experience. That is a matter for the football authorities, but I will be very happy to undertake to make sure that officials at my department are speaking to them about this issue.

Football Clubs: Ownership Test

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Monday 29th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

Yes, and I would point to the Government’s manifesto, which committed to this fan-led review. Football is nothing without its fans. That is why we have taken action at every step to support them, both through the manifesto commitment but also during the pandemic by getting football back on television and using the events research programme to get fans back safely into stadia.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

I declare my interest as the fan-elected chair of the oldest fan group in world football, at Leeds United. Does the Minister agree that the Premier League is the biggest single success that this country has in terms of reputation across the world and is loved by people wanting to watch it well beyond this country? Does he further agree that there is a fundamental difference between the Premier League and those who have owned clubs such as Bury, Darlington and Chester who have managed to wreck and ruin them?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The noble Lord is right about the great pride that fans across the country place in the national sport and its huge impact not just in this country but worldwide. That is why we welcome the fan-led review and committed to it in our manifesto. It is also why we will study it carefully and come back with our response.

Racism in Cricket

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Wednesday 10th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My noble friend is right: the vast majority of people who play and enjoy cricket have the right attitude. He is a well-published author on the subject as well as being a member of all the clubs he mentioned. My honourable friend the Sports Minister met the England and Wales Cricket Board at the department on Friday to seek the assurances we wanted to hear about the approach it is taking. We are following that very closely and will not hesitate to take action ourselves if we think it necessary.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, a year and two weeks ago, Imam Qari Asim, who advises the Government on Islamophobia, and myself, who advises on anti-Semitism, wrote to the ECB offering advice and requesting a meeting. In effect, we have had no response whatsoever. Does the Minister think it a good idea for cricket to take some advice, and should not Kick It Out, which has done such good work in football, be properly resourced to do similar work in cricket?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am sure that the ECB has heard the reminder; it should reply to the noble Lord and take him up on the offer of his insights and expertise. He is also right to point to the work of Kick It Out. Cindy Butts, who the ECB has appointed to chair its Independent Commission for Equity in Cricket, has experience working with Kick It Out in football and will be known to your Lordships as a lay member of the Conduct Committee. We are very glad to see her appointment and the work that she is taking forward.

UCAS End of Cycle Report 2019

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right to point out some of the distinctions between the attainment gap at different levels of pupils’ education. I am pleased to say that, on this year’s numbers, disadvantaged 18 year- olds are entering higher education at record rates; 23% of 18 year-olds in England have been granted access to higher education this year. That shows the progress that we have made but also the work that still must be done.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lord, there is a trade-off in sixth forms between the depth of provision and the quality of provision. If more sixth-form colleges in white, working-class areas were to narrow the range of provision and concentrate on the quality, results would go up. This is not raised in the report. Will the Government give it some consideration?

Healthcare Students: Tuition Fees

Debate between Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay and Lord Mann

Thursday 23rd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. Part of the new maintenance grant, which comes in in September this year, is in addition to a further £3,000 that is available to help with childcare, other dependant costs and living costs of that sort.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl) [V]]

How responsive will the Government be to specific proposals to localise the future training of nurses, so that nurses are more able to live at home when they go through training, rather than having to rent accommodation?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay]

My Lords, that is a good and important point, which I will of course discuss with the department. Some people need to study near to home for childcare and family reasons; others like having the opportunity to travel to another part of the UK and study there, for the benefits that that brings them.