Public Bodies Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Pannick and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town
Lord Pannick
I am sure that there would be ample room for argument in the courts. I am concerned that we do not leave matters of this importance, in relation to a Bill that confers such exceptional powers on the Executive, to legal argument for the future. It is our task and our responsibility to ensure that these matters are clearly stated in the legislation that we are considering.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town
My Lords, I endorse the words of both noble Lords, Lord Lester of Herne Hill and Lord Pannick. I urge the Minister and the Committee to do the same.
Amendments 14 and 107 seek to ensure that, in any move to abolish, merge or alter the various organisations listed in the various schedules, the Minister must have regard to the original powers or objectives laid down in law for those bodies. It would therefore not be enough to say simply, “We can save money by these changes”, although I always agree with saving money. The amendments would make it necessary to consider more than just the need for specialist and technical expertise, much though I also support that; and more than simply independence from government, as has been spoken of, much as I also concur with that.
Parliament needs to be satisfied that the raison d'être of each body—its objective, as set down in statute—will be protected and continued under whichever body takes over from the abolished, reformed or merged organisation. I would like to give four brief examples listed in the schedules where legislation has been passed, including through this House, to give powers or duties to those organisations. We need assurance that, in any change to their status, the very purpose and duties for which they were set up should be retained, even if carried out in a more resource-efficient way.
I start with the Legal Services Board; I declare an interest as chair of the Legal Services Consumer Panel, which is funded by the Legal Services Board. The Legal Services Act 2007 requires the establishment of the board, and says that it,
“must … act in a way … compatible with the”,
Act’s “regulatory objectives”, which are about,
“protecting and promoting the public interest … supporting the constitutional principle of the rule of law … improving access to justice … promoting competition in the provision of services”,
and,
“encouraging an independent, strong, diverse and effective legal profession”.
The Act also demands that the board promotes adherence to the professional principles of lawyers, which are to,
“act with independence and integrity … act in the best interests of their clients”,
and,
“comply with their duty to the court to act with independence in the interests of justice”.
This goes further than judicial independence—important though that is; those objectives would need to be retained. My amendment would ensure that those objectives were still met if there were any alteration to the board’s set-up. They are absolutely central to the administration of justice.