Defence: Type 26 Frigates
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord the figures that he requires, but I can assure him that we want to get the Type 26s and the capability that the Royal Navy needs, to get value for money for the taxpayer, and to have a very strong British shipbuilding industry.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, there are reports that the delays referred to by other noble Lords are due to arguments about the growing sophistication and weight of the Type 26s, which has vastly increased costs. BAE Systems originally put the weight at 5,400 tonnes, which has now risen to 6,500 tonnes. Fully loaded, they are expected to weigh 8,000 tonnes. Costs have risen by £100 million per frigate. Can my noble friend say what action the MoD is taking, following Sir Nick Houghton’s comment that there was,
“an expensive habit of over-specifying our equipment needs”?
UK Armed Forces in Iraq
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Astor of Hever
My noble friend makes a very good point. These training courses are very important. Following on from the noble Lord’s earlier question, we feel that it is very important that we build them up. We are still scoping these training courses. As I said, we have just completed several courses in the Erbil area in heavy machine-guns. We are currently doing combat infantry training and sharpshooter training with the Danes in the Sulaymaniyah area. Two more courses are being carried out.
Our soldiers have helped commercial contractors to train the Iraqis in counter-IED. As I said earlier, this is something in which we have a real niche speciality. I can assure my noble friend that the “advise and assist” recce team returned to this country on 7 December, and options are being considered to set up a logistics headquarters and a ninth armoured mechanical division. PJHQ is developing a business case for counter-IED training at two build-partner capacity sites.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
Will my noble friend tell the House whether, across government departments, there has been an assessment of any further terrorism risks in the UK because of our further forays into Iraq? Could my noble friend also say whether the perceptions of what the UK forces are doing in Iraq has been consulted on with our ambassadors in Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf states?
Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [HL]
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, it is to the credit of your Lordships’ House that we have a Bill with only one amendment. It is a compliment to all sides of the House that we have managed to get a Bill that has got to this stage. I am a fairly new addition to this place but one amendment to a Bill seems a massive achievement. However, it is even greater than the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, just said. I believe that we have achieved an awful lot in the Bill and the amendment is almost clutching at straws or trying to find problems. I find that the commissioner—the ombudsman—will be able to take matters to the Defence Council and the problems described seem more in the realms of fantasy than reality.
As I see it in the Bill, in reality we have the ability to conduct investigations—I do not read it as saying that there can be no investigation of any sort. I do not think that the proposal by the noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Tunnicliffe, gives the ombudsman that much more power than is there already. The ombudsman may investigate if a matter is,
“deemed to be in the public interest”.
In fact, most problems occur when particular members of the Armed Forces suffer some sort of bullying or have some complaint. That is where the complaints arise, rather than the big systemic complaints to which the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, referred. I do not see that the amendment is needed. There have been a lot of reassurances; they may not all be in the legislation but can be found in Hansard. But it has been proved that assurances given in Hansard can be taken and used in the appropriate manner.
If there is a vote, I shall certainly vote against the amendment, but I take this opportunity of asking my noble friend the Minister whether he would comment on a specific case. Perhaps he could say how, bearing in mind the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, the approach to that specific case would be helped and enhanced by the new legislation that we seek to pass. I refer to the case, reported over the last few days, of former Corporal Neathway, a paratrooper who was disabled. It took three years for his complaint to surface and for it to be seen that his commanding officers, at lower staff level and brigadier level, had not done what was necessary. What would happen under the new legislation, after the efforts of your Lordships’ House, with all the faults that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, has sought to expose, if the case of this former corporal in a parachute regiment happened now rather than three years ago?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con)
My Lords, the issues covered in this amendment have already been the subject of useful and detailed debates in Committee and on Report. I said on Report on 29 July that I would consider the issue further so that we could return to it this afternoon.
The Bill provides that the ombudsman’s primary function will be to investigate and report on allegations by complainants that there has been maladministration in handling their complaint. The reports from the ombudsman will contain binding decisions on whether there has been maladministration and whether, as a consequence, injustice has or could have been caused. The ombudsman can also make recommendations for remedial action including the reinvestigation of the complaint, suggested improvements to the way in which investigations into such allegations are carried out, or specific actions that would make the complaints system more effective. In addition to this, there is nothing to stop the ombudsman commenting on any underlying concern or pattern of behaviour that has given rise to the complaint.
As I said on Report, we envisage that, when the ombudsman considers it appropriate, he or she will publish information on any matters of general concern arising from the operation of the service complaints system, however such matters come to the ombudsman’s attention. We do not think that a statutory power needs to be provided for the ombudsman to be able to do this. We want the ombudsman to raise such issues as quickly as possible. When systemic failings are identified, it is important that they are brought to our attention so that they can be put right when possible.
My noble friend Lord Palmer of Childs Hill raised the really important issue of the Neathway case and asked how that case would be covered by the Bill. The Bill will mean that the complaints process in future is quicker; anyone who is unhappy with how their complaint has been handled will be able to approach the ombudsman—for example, if they believe that their case has taken too long to resolve. The ombudsman’s independent oversight will give the Armed Forces lessons in how to further improve the process.
A service complaint panel has reached a determination about the service complaint made by ex-Corporal Tom Neathway, the panel on behalf of the Defence Council has formally apologised to ex-Corporal Neathway and has made recommendations for the Army to consider. The Army has appointed a commanding officer unconnected with the events to consider all matters arising from the service complaint panel’s determination.
The Bill also provides that the ombudsman must produce an annual report. This will be able to look widely at the complaints system, the sort of cases it handles and what sort of failings and misconduct the system has identified. As I have said before, this is a wide and appropriate role for the ombudsman to have, using his or her knowledge and experience of the complaints system and any information that has come to light through that process, whether from the complainant, families, service welfare organisations, MPs or the services themselves. The ombudsman therefore has the ability to report on any underlying themes. The current commissioner has used her annual reports to comment on issues such as the effectiveness of the Army’s zero-tolerance policy on bullying.
The ombudsman can therefore report on a wide range of issues relating to the effectiveness, efficiency and fairness of the service complaints system, including on any systemic issues that have come to his or her attention. This can be done immediately through individual investigation reports, or by publishing information of general concern, or through the annual report.
The aim of this amendment, however, is to allow the ombudsman to carry out investigations into wider issues, such as a culture of bullying at a particular location, and to produce reports on those issues. Consequently, its purpose is to introduce a new role for the ombudsman that goes beyond that set out in the Bill.
There are three important reasons why we do not want the ombudsman to have such a power. First, carrying out such investigations would divert the ombudsman from their primary role of making the complaints system work better and, in particular, hold the chain of command to account in its handling of service complaints. Secondly, the ombudsman might not be the best person to carry out such an investigation. Such investigations might require the full-time dedication of a number of people with specific skills and expertise, such as investigators and lawyers. Finally, it is the chain of command that is responsible for the welfare of its people and for the environment in which they work. We would expect the ombudsman to bring any systemic failings to the attention of the individual service concerned, and to the Ministry of Defence, so that they can put things right. However, it is not for the ombudsman, in the manner of an inspectorate, then to go on to examine these issues.
I hope that I have made the Government’s position clear. We do not want the ombudsman to highlight any thematic issues they come across and to make these concerns quickly and publicly available. However, we do not want the ombudsman and supporting staff then to go off and investigate these matters. Giving him or her the power to do so would significantly change their role and distract them from the main task of making the service complaints system better.
As we have now reached the final stage of our consideration of this Bill, I thank all noble Lords for their work on it. I agree with my noble friend Lord Palmer and I also thank him for his support on this amendment. We have had some excellent debates on a number of issues, some of which we have looked at in considerable depth. I hope that all noble Lords feel that there has been adequate time for scrutiny. I am particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, for the constructive way that he has put the Opposition’s case, and to my noble friends Lord Thomas and Lord Palmer and others for their expert contributions. I also thank my noble friend Lady Jolly for her assistance, and officials both in this House and in the Ministry of Defence for ensuring the smooth running of the Bill.
With that, I ask noble Lords to reject this amendment.
Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [HL]
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Rosser (Lab)
My Lords, we have an amendment in this group. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, has made a strong case. As he said, we discussed the issue in Committee, and our amendment is the same as that which we then proposed.
We simply seek a process that would enable issues to be raised by the family on behalf of the member of the services who has died, whether the death occurs before a complaint has been made—when evidence comes to light subsequently that indicates that a complaint could be pursued—or whether death occurs when a complaint is already going through the process but has not been finalised.
Responding for the Government, the Minister in effect said that where the complainant had died, whether before a complaint had been made or after a complaint had been made but not finalised, the chain of command could decide to investigate that complaint, but that it was a matter entirely for the chain of command as to whether they did so. The Minister referred to the need for a complaints system to be fair and,
“to give equal consideration to all parties who may be involved. That means that the person making the complaint and anyone else who might be implicated in it, or otherwise affected by it, should have the opportunity to put their case”.—[Official Report, 9/7/14; col. 230-31.]
The Minister went on to say that while,
“cases involving a deceased service man or woman must be treated seriously and with respect, and that the family of the deceased have a right to know that the issues they raise will be seriously considered, the place to do this is not through the formal service complaints system. For the service complaints system to be fair, and for all of those involved to feel that it has treated them as such, it must involve all parties: the person making the complaint and those who are accused of perpetrating the wrong”.—[Official Report, 9/7/14; col. 232.]
I am not convinced that the formal complaints procedure could not handle such complaints fairly. If the evidence is not there to sustain the complaint, or there are key issues that cannot be properly investigated because the complainant, unfortunately, cannot be there, that would surely be reflected in the outcome, but that inability to obtain sufficient evidence to make a decision will not always be the case.
If, as I suspect, the Minister is not prepared to accept these amendments, or to consider the matter further, where does that leave the ombudsman in such cases? The inference must be that if a matter is not dealt with through the formal complaints system, an aggrieved party will not be able to make a complaint to the ombudsman that there has been maladministration in connection with the handling of the complaint, either through a refusal to consider it at all, or in relation to the process by which that complaint was considered.
Will the Minister also say whether or not that would be the position in respect of a complaint from, or on behalf of, a member of service personnel who is now deceased—namely, that by not dealing with the complaint through the formal complaints procedure, there could be no reference on grounds of maladministration to the Service Complaints Ombudsman? One would have thought that the ombudsman would be quite capable of making a decision on whether there was, or was not, sufficient evidence available from which to reach a fair and just conclusion.
If that is the case—I hope that it is not—and the ombudsman would have no role, do the Government really think that that is a mark of a fair complaints system which treats cases involving a deceased service man or woman seriously and with respect, and gives the family of the deceased the right to know that the issues that they have raised will be seriously considered? I am not sure that it does.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, I intervene on just a couple of small points. I hope that the Minister will take regard of both these amendments. However, I want to highlight the difference between the two, which is subtle but important. When the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, said that his amendment was in the same form and words as it was in Committee, I was somewhat disappointed. My noble friend Lord Thomas’s amendment has some important differences from the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. My noble friend Lord Thomas’s amendment, to which I am a signatory, says that,
“the complaint may be made or maintained”,
whereas the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, says only that it should be made. Very often, the complaint has been made before the person has died and therefore it needs to be maintained. It is not necessarily made after death.
The amendment proposed by my noble friend Lord Thomas refers to,
“next of kin, or personal; representative”.
Those are the correct terms in law, whereas the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, talks about “relative or partner”. As we all know, a personal representative is not necessarily a relative or partner. If we are, by consensus, going to persuade the Minister and the Government to move on this issue, I hope that we will take those finer points into consideration.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con)
My Lords, Amendments 1 and 2 relate to complaints about the treatment of a member of the Armed Forces who has since died. Amendment 2 would allow family members to bring a complaint about any wrong that they consider had been suffered by a serving or former member of the services who has died, but does not enable a representative of the person’s estate to pursue a complaint started before that person’s death. Amendment 1 would also allow family members to bring a complaint about any wrong that they consider had been suffered by a serving or former member of the services who has died, and in addition allow family members or representatives of the person’s estate to pursue a complaint started before his or her death.
There are two types of complaints envisaged by the amendments where a service person has died: first, complaints made by a family member, next of kin or personal representative potentially concerning a range of matters in the past where the person affected has since died and, secondly, complaints about treatment or matters alleged to be connected with the death of the service person. In responding to these amendments, I shall set out as clearly as possible how we think that complaints can—and should—be handled in different circumstances involving a serving or former member of the services who has died.
I start by making clear the purpose and primary aim of the service complaints system. It is designed to allow people to bring complaints where they think that they have been wronged or mistreated in connection with their service. Service complaints are generally about that person and concern matters that affect them personally. As the complaint is a matter personal to the complainant, it is for that individual—if needs be, with support and advice—to decide whether to initiate and pursue a complaint through the redress process rather than do nothing or deal with the matter by way of informal resolution. As a consequence, an examination of their complaint needs that person’s involvement in the process.
Lord Thomas of Gresford
My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, I am very much concerned as to what the ombudsman thinks he can do when he has an issue before him. If he foresees or realises that there is a culture within a particular unit in the Armed Forces that involves bullying, initiation ceremonies or matters of that sort, what can he do? Is he restricted simply to reporting on an individual complaint or is he entitled to tell the defence counsel that there is a much more serious widespread issue here that has to be tackled?
When we discussed this in Committee, the Minister said that the Bill already offered,
“sufficient scope for the ombudsman to raise wider issues in appropriate ways, as they see necessary, and to provide an input to investigations or inquiries conducted by other appropriate bodies”.—[Official Report, 9/7/14; col. 243.]
It would seem from that reply—and I have had discussions with the Bill team—that the ombudsman would be entitled to file a report, and not just an annual report but a report from time to time, in which he could draw the attention of the defence counsel to thematic abuse that he has seen, from the consideration of a number of individual cases. If the Minister can confirm that, many of the concerns that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and I have expressed will be met. But it is not clear from the Bill’s wording, and I look forward to what the Minister says.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
My Lords, I draw attention to a couple of words in Amendment 5— “compelling circumstances”. I did not invent those words; they came from the Canadian legislation on this subject. I have always been a great believer that you should not reinvent the wheel when another Administration, and a member of the Commonwealth, have in their ombudsman regulations the provision for the ombudsman to carry out an investigation “in compelling circumstances”—so it is not just as a normal, run-of-the-mill decision. I hope that the Minister at some stage, even at Third Reading, can somehow give the ombudsman that additional power if the compelling circumstances should arise.
Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, whether the ombudsman can investigate wider issues was the subject of a good debate in Committee, and I do not intend to repeat my response. Instead, I hope to provide noble Lords with clarity on how the ombudsman would deal with wider issues or possible examples of systemic abuse that come to his or her attention under the reformed service complaints system. I hope that this clarity will go some way towards dealing with the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and my noble friends Lord Thomas and Lord Palmer of Childs Hill.
First, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that the ombudsman will be able to look into any matter relating to the service complaints system or the functions of the ombudsman and that he or she is already required by the Bill to report on these matters to the Secretary of State. We are absolutely clear that, when the ombudsman comes across issues of wider concern relating to service complaints, the ombudsman can and should report on these issues. If systemic failings are identified through the complaints system, it is important that those are brought to the attention of both the individual service and the Ministry of Defence. Where things are going wrong, we want to know about them. It is also important that where the ombudsman identifies these wider issues or trends, these concerns are made publicly available. The ombudsman will see a lot of information as part of their role and this means they will be in a unique position to identify any systemic issues. In addition, new Section 340O(6) will allow the Secretary of State to require the ombudsman to report on any matters on a stand-alone basis at any point during the year regarding the efficiency, effectiveness and fairness of the system for dealing with service complaints or the exercise of the ombudsman’s statutory functions.
As a consequence of new Section 340O, the Bill gives the ombudsman scope to use their judgement to cover such matters in the annual report as they think relevant to the operation of the system or to the exercise of their role. The ombudsman’s annual reports, like those of the commissioner, will be able to look widely at the system of redress, the sort of complaints that are encountered and what sort of failings and misconduct the system has to deal with. This is a broad and appropriate role for the ombudsman to have using his or her knowledge and experience of the redress system.
It is also important for any organisation to know on a cultural or systemic level when and where things are going wrong, and the services are no different in this regard. By seeing complaints from across the services, the ombudsman will be in a unique position to identify connections between individual complaints—whether they come from a particular area or deal with similar issues. That ability to be able to identify trends means that the ombudsman will be in a key position to comment upon, or make recommendations in respect of, issues that go wider than individual complaints. It will also mean that the ombudsman will be able to provide valuable insight to any investigation or inquiry commissioned into such matters.
Moreover, the ombudsman, through the production of individual investigation reports, as required by new Section 340L, will be able to draw out recurring themes throughout the year as and when appropriate, rather than waiting until the production of the annual report —if, in the ombudsman’s opinion, the circumstances necessitate that.
For example, it may well be appropriate for the ombudsman to highlight where a number of complaints have been made about a similar issue or individual, or where in respect of the handling of complaints of a particular nature such as discrimination, a consistently high number of applications alleging maladministration are made. It would be right to draw out such matters, as new Section 340L(3) is broad enough to include the making of recommendations beyond those solely relating to maladministration, to addressing the effectiveness of the redress system or other systemic issues. Such wider recommendations could concern the better handling and investigations of complaints of a particular nature where there is a finding of maladministration in connection with the handling of the complaint at hand. In addition, such recommendations could well concern the commissioning of training in carrying out investigations into certain matters—discrimination being a good example—or appointing a subject matter expert to investigate systemic issues or concerns that have apparently arisen. It is then fundamentally down to the services to respond appropriately and we would expect them to do so.
New Section 340O requires the Secretary of State to lay the ombudsman’s annual reports before Parliament and we expect that, as with the commissioner’s annual reports, the reports will also be published on the ombudsman’s website. We envisage that following individual investigations, at the appropriate time, and taking account of any relevant sensitivities or information law provisions, summaries of those investigations that draw out and publicise any wider areas of concern may also be published. How that might work in practice will be the subject of discussion with the next commissioner, who will become the ombudsman.
Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [HL]
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, I understand all that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, has said about perception, but it is the reality that concerns me. I believe that all the points that the noble Lord has made about the danger of having someone who has just left the ranks of the Armed Forces may be there, but I would like to put the other side.
If we adopt the amendment that the noble Lord has suggested, we are limiting the choice. He may be right that it would be best to have someone who had not left the Armed Forces more recently, within the previous five years, but should we, in primary legislation, reduce the options that are available? If there were someone who had left the Armed Forces, say, two years before the appointment was made and that person was the admirable person for that position, should we, by passing this amendment, cut off the possibility of choosing the right man or woman for the position?
Although I welcome the suggestion that the Minister might give us a little more information about the terms of appointment and the like, which would be most useful, if the noble Lord’s amendment were to be passed we would be limiting choice, and that would be a poor thing.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever) (Con)
My Lords, the amendments in this group would require there to be a gap of five years between a person ending their service in the Regular or Reserve Forces and becoming eligible to be appointed to the post of Service Complaints Ombudsman. The provision in the Bill requires simply that, to be appointed to the post, an individual is not currently a member of the Regular or Reserve Forces nor of the Civil Service. The service complaints process is in place to deal with a wide range of matters that can give concern to our personnel. For those concerns to be addressed and resolved, it is essential that everyone who might wish to use the process has confidence that it will deal with complaints in an impartial and professional way.
The need for the system to be fair, effective and efficient is already well established, and is the basis in the Bill for the ombudsman’s annual assessment in the ombudsman’s report as to how the process operated during the preceding year. In creating the new role of ombudsman, those principles of impartiality and professionalism are also the characteristics that everyone will expect to see the postholder display. Crucially, postholders must also be demonstrably independent of those whom they seek to hold to account for the way in which complaints have been handled.
That is why the ombudsman is outside the chain of command and has access to Ministers when the ombudsman considers it is necessary. The ombudsman will also be able to approach the chain of command at any level and on any issue, should there be a need to do so. The ombudsman will continue to be accommodated outside the defence estate to reinforce the independence of the role and the ombudsman will recruit its own staff in line with prevailing Civil Service recruitment guidelines. The Bill includes a new provision as a further mark of the role’s independence and security of the postholder’s tenure, in that the postholder’s appointment will be subject to appointment by Her Majesty.
The ombudsman will be a post that is of public interest. As such, the recruitment activity will include a pre-appointment hearing by the House of Commons Defence Select Committee, once a candidate selected by the interview panel has been approved by the Secretary of State. This was introduced for the Service Complaints Commissioner post for the same reasons.
In reviewing the terms that will apply to the ombudsman post, we have considered the length of engagement of other similar posts and, to answer the noble Lord’s question, we have determined that when the next recruitment campaign is run the tenure will be extended to five years. To answer his other question, the term will not be renewable. This will give any future ombudsman sufficient time to familiarise themselves in the role and then become fully effective, which would not necessarily be the case if the term was shorter. Having looked at how other ombudsman institutions in the public sector are set up, we are aware that the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman has a seven-year non-renewable term. By keeping this aspect of the ombudsman appointment in the terms of appointment rather than in the Bill, we retain the flexibility to increase it in the future if experience shows that that might be beneficial.
The skills and experience that are needed for this post are those expected for any high-profile oversight role, with the additional challenges in the short term of transforming the current role of the Service Complaints Commissioner to that of an ombudsman. Proven analytical skills and the ability to make sound judgments and recommendations on the basis of evidence, along with a proven record in change management, will be key. Individuals can acquire these skills in any number of ways and it is for applicants to show how they have demonstrated them in practical terms that will be of benefit in this role.
We are clear that, on taking up the appointment, the ombudsman should not be a serving member of the Regular or Reserve Forces, nor of the Civil Service, so that the independence of the post and postholder is not in question. We do not, however, limit ourselves, as the amendment would, to those who may have left service during any particular period. Our aim is to get the best candidate for the job and to be in a position to encourage applications from as wide a field as possible. To put in an arbitrary bar would disqualify otherwise excellent candidates with potentially relevant and recent experience, a point that was well made by my noble friend.
As part of the recruitment process for posts of this nature, the recruitment consultants who are running the campaign will scrutinise closely the information provided by applicants, and will compare it to the required skills and experience that have been set out in the advertisement for the post. The consultants will also work closely in the run-up to and during the campaign with those who will be interviewing the applicants and recommending the candidate to Ministers for their approval. As has been the case in the past for the Service Complaints Commissioner, the ombudsman interviewing panel will include a mix of military and Civil Service personnel who know the complaints process well and have a clear understanding of the environment in which the ombudsman will be operating. This helps the consultants to understand in more detail the role that they are recruiting to and the benefits and disadvantages that certain areas of previous experience might attract.
The period since a potential candidate left the service might not necessarily be an issue. What may be of relevance is the role and function they carried out and the length of time they were in the service. For example, an individual who served for only a short period but who prior to joining up had experience of particular value to the ombudsman role may be an especially strong candidate who should be given serious consideration. Each candidate is therefore considered on their merits and always with the need for the chosen candidate for the post to be, beyond question, independent of those whom they will be holding to account.
As part of their checks, the consultants will clarify any potential issues that arise that they feel might raise any real or perceived doubts as to an applicant’s independence from the Armed Forces if an applicant were to go on to become the commissioner or, in future, the ombudsman. They will also look for any possible signs that an applicant might not otherwise be acceptable or might bring the integrity of the post into question, which might include, for example, whether they have been or are currently the subject of a complaint. The selection panel chaired by a public appointments assessor must also satisfy itself that all candidates can meet the Standards in Public Life principles and that they have no conflict of interest that would call into question their ability to perform the role.
There is undoubtedly a fine balance to be struck between having some relevant knowledge of the way that the services operate and being completely new to their ethos. The Armed Forces operate in a unique employment environment. Their need for strong discipline is among the factors that make them such an effective fighting force on operations. It can be difficult for someone who is unaccustomed to the way in which that discipline is instilled and maintained readily to understand how this environment differs from the civilian workplace and, indeed, how that might transfer to the way in which complaints are viewed and how the services handle them. By the same token, we need and want a fresh pair of eyes to look at our complaints process and determine what is fair, effective and efficient in the way that we deal with any complaints that might arise within that unique environment.
If an applicant for the ombudsman post had only recently left the Regular or Reserve Forces, we would still want to consider such an application. The checks and balances that we have in place as part of the rigorous recruitment process—and our need to ensure that the postholder is seen as independent—give us the flexibility to consider as wide a range of applicants as possible for this important role and to secure the best possible candidate. These amendments would lead to good candidates being excluded arbitrarily, and for that reason I must resist them. I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Thomas of Gresford
I shall speak to Amendment 10, which is in my name and that of my noble friends. I follow very much the thinking of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. I think that the first paragraph of my amendment, which states that the ombudsman,
“shall investigate any matter referred to the Ombudsman by written direction of the Defence Council”,
puts clearly the Defence Council’s power to give such a written direction. I find the power given in proposed new Section 340O(6) to be slightly confusing. It is under the heading, “Annual report on system for dealing with service complaints”, but it is not at all clear that that is a wide power for the ombudsman to investigate something beyond the preparation of a report and the points on which the ombudsman makes a report in that document.
The ombudsman should have a clear power to investigate matters referred to him. Under paragraph (b) of my amendment, I argue, as has the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, that it is in the public interest that the ombudsman should on his own motion, after advising the Defence Council,
“carry out an investigation of any allegations of systemic abuse or injustice if it appears to him to be in the public interest”.
We have qualified that by saying that there should be compelling circumstances. It is not that the ombudsman could justify investigating anything. It may very well be that, in the course of the investigation of individual complaints, it will come to the attention of the ombudsman that there is a culture of abuse or bullying in a particular area. He may well feel that he would have to investigate that on his own initiative, and not await instruction, following his annual report, from the Secretary of State.
As the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, pointed out, this has the support of the committee that has looked into it, and I hope that the Minister will be open to amending the Act—if not in the precise words that I have put forward, then certainly in the spirit of my amendment.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
My Lords, perhaps I may add just a few words to those of the noble Lord and my noble friend. I spoke about this at Second Reading and gave examples of the Canadian authorities. The words “compelling circumstances” were taken exactly from what the Canadians do—to give the ombudsman the power so that he or she can, in compelling circumstances, do what my noble friend Lord Thomas has described. I hope that the Government will consider examples from overseas which we can incorporate into our legislation.
Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, these amendments would extend the ombudsman’s authority to conduct investigations beyond those matters raised by complainants about the handling of their case to a much wider range of matters, based on the ombudsman’s judgment of issues that are in the public interest. In the second of these amendments, the ombudsman would also be able to investigate the merits of individual allegations. As such, the second amendment in particular represents a significant development in the role of the ombudsman, which it is right that we have debated, as we seek to improve on the way the complaints system operates through the increased oversight afforded by a reformed commissioner role.
Observations on the way the current complaints system has operated since its introduction in January 2008 have focused primarily on the concerns that, in too many cases, the time taken to reach a conclusion is too long. While it is possible for any complaint to take longer than would reasonably be expected, particular concern has been expressed about complaints that involve bullying and harassment, where the consequence of delay can be more keenly felt and which by their nature have a more damaging effect on relationships, and in some extreme cases, on an individual’s health. The current Service Complaints Commissioner covered a range of issues in her annual reports, including delays. For example, in this year’s annual report she has made recommendations that aim to increase the services’ understanding of what the numbers and types of complaints can tell them about the effectiveness of the training they conduct in values and standards and the need to treat everyone with respect. Wider recommendations of this kind might strictly be considered to go beyond the operation of the current system or the exercise of the commissioner’s function, in that they aim to reduce the number of instances of poor treatment by one colleague against another, making a reality of the services’ zero tolerance of bullying and harassment, for example. Recommendations by the commissioner serve a wider aim however, which is to encourage individuals to speak up when they experience such behaviour, as they see that good can come from it, ultimately, if behaviour is changed.
The commissioner is able to make such comments and recommendations under current provisions in the Armed Forces Act 2006 that are replicated in the Bill before us. The focus for the ombudsman will be to provide strengthened and independent oversight of how the complaints process operates. It will hold the chain of command to account for the fairness, effectiveness and efficiency with which it discharges its responsibilities.
Ministry of Defence: Use of Biofuels
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Soley, for putting this debate down. When I saw it listed, I felt that it was rather like Groundhog Day, or déjà vu, because three months ago, or 31 March of this year, the noble Lord asked the Government whether they intended to increase the use of biofuels for the Armed Forces. I waited with interest to see what the noble Lord was going to bring up in the debate. I have not been disappointed, because it has certainly added to the knowledge that we need to have.
There is nothing wrong with using biofuels from food waste and crops which would not otherwise go into food production. However I am going to take a slightly different angle from the noble Lord. My concern is that I have heard nothing to suggest that the Ministry of Defence, or indeed the noble Lord, Lord Soley, cares at all about the harm to food production. I assume that this is considered to be a concern of Defra rather than the MoD. It must be the concern of somebody. The problem of this Government and earlier Administrations is the compartmentalisation of policies and decisions.
I suppose that I need to ask some direct questions of my noble friend the Minister. When the MoD makes use of biofuels, is any contact made with Defra or any other interested bodies as to whether their use has affected food crops? Has the use of biofuels increased the cost of food? A lot of research has been done on this issue.
Lord Soley
Perhaps I may intervene briefly to say that I am with the noble Lord all the way, but the next or new generation of biofuels really has very little impact on food production. The fuels are based on things like algae and so on.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
I will come on to the interesting point about algaes in a moment. In March, the Minister stated that the MoD uses biofuels for road transport, and the question essentially being asked by the noble Lord, Lord Soley, is whether biofuels have progressed beyond that end use. More specifically, will biofuels be used in the two new aircraft carriers, which will clearly consume vast amounts of fuel? Does the new F35B fighter use biofuels at all? I am trying to put some specifics on the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Soley.
On a positive note, the drive to produce biofuels that are suitable for aviation is starting to look promising. I am not sure that I agree with the totality of what the noble Lord, Lord Soley, said, but one of the state governments in Brazil has put in place a policy to stimulate the cultivation, extraction and processing of the native macaw palm, which is a potentially sustainable source. I would hope that this is something that R&D somewhere within the Government would be pursuing. Further, on the other side of the argument, can the Minister comment on the accusation made in 2013 that the EU missed an opportunity by failing to agree a cap on the use of biofuels? Can he also comment on studies which show that as land is dedicated to energy crops, land for growing food is simply taken from other areas, often forested places, which leads to substantial CO2 emissions because the production of biofuels generates the emission of CO2, thus drastically reducing their benefit?
Most military vehicles use diesel, as is the case in other countries, and of course biodiesel can be blended with diesel for general use in many vehicles, but sourcing is deeply problematic. The noble Lord, Lord Soley, used the example of the conflict in Afghanistan, which raises the question of how and where biofuels are created. It is all very well if they are produced in Afghanistan for use in that conflict, but bearing in mind that we are not looking to enter into another conflict like Afghanistan or another invasion of Iraq, how will we source these biofuels on location? I ask this because we are probably talking about smaller forces going into smaller conflicts so there is a question about whether these biofuels can be produced locally.
There are claims that certain wonder-biodiesel crops can be grown on a large scale on marginal land for biofuel without conflicting with existing crops. According to my research, I am afraid that these claims are unproven and they have not materialised in the marketplace.
I turn now to the interjection by the noble Lord, Lord Soley. In theory, biodiesel can be made from algae, but it need not necessarily be biodiesel. Biofuels have been used in aircraft on demonstration flights. However, in spite of decades of research, no large-scale production of such biofuels exists that I know of. Indeed, if anyone could make the production of biofuels from algae viable, they would probably be richer than Bill Gates. The noble Lord mentioned the so-called second generation biofuels made by a process of wood and straw fermentation, but so far they have failed to succeed on a large scale, despite strong European and American incentives. I could go on to discuss compressed biogas and so on, but perhaps this is not the time to do so.
My contribution to this debate is to sound a note of caution around the very interesting points that have been made by the noble Lord, Lord Soley. There is a downside, which is the impact on food production. That should be taken into account. This whole thing is aimed at the MoD and the aircraft and vessels used by the MoD, but the use of biofuels is not just military. There is a much wider session to be had, which any Government of any hue would need to look. In a small world, this is something the MoD needs to look at.
I have 10 minutes. I am sorry but I am well within my time—though I have no wish to exceed time if need be.
The noble Lord, Lord Soley, concentrates on the MoD and its use of biofuels, but this is a much wider subject. I would like any Government, this Government or any other future Administration, to look at how Defra and other government departments work with the MoD to see whether biofuels should be used. We already know that biofuels are part of the fuel we get from petrol pumps. There is a percentage of biofuels in petrol. Things are moving. I understand what the noble Lord, Lord Soley, says about the lack of R&D in the UK, but I do not believe that it is R&D specifically for the MoD; it is R&D for the Government. We need to have some joined-up thinking between government departments about whether it is a good thing, whether it is a good thing in certain places, whether it is reducing food production and whether it is the way forward. Just because our allies in the United States are using it does not necessarily convince me that it is the way forward, but it could be.
Armed Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) Bill [HL]
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, I, too, welcome the Bill. We have already heard a detailed explanation of it from the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Dean. I certainly do not intend to repeat what they said.
The Bill deals with three matters: the creation of a Service Complaints Ombudsman; the reform of the service complaints system; and ensuring financial assistance to charities and other organisations which support the Armed Forces community. The heads of the three Armed Forces have, as we have been told in this debate, publicly stated their support for the Bill, but I look forward to meeting the representatives of the service chiefs and the current commissioner between Second Reading and Committee, so that I and other noble Lords can have their first-hand assessment before we reach Committee on this very useful Bill. I am sometimes wary of public statements when we do not get to grips with the actual person who made the statement. There is no suspicion that what we have been told is not the case, but that would be useful.
I shall concentrate on the ombudsman and the service complaints system. I hope that my noble friend Lady Garden will deal with Clause 4, so I will leave that for the moment, and that my noble friend Lord Thomas will share with the House his vast experience of military court advocates, which have a bearing on the Bill.
The current Service Complaints Commissioner stated, as we have heard, that she could not provide an assurance that the current system was working in its present format. She was also critical of the length of time that it took to resolve complaints, particularly those relating to bullying and harassment. I am pleased that the Bill makes the legislative changes required to take forward the needed reforms. The current Service Complaints Commissioner has also stated that the Bill will bring,
“substantial improvements to the fairness of the complaints system, the time it takes for complaints to be resolved and increase the level of confidence Service personnel have in the process”.
One criticism that has been made is that the ombudsman will not apparently have the power to undertake on her own initiative a thematic inquiry into issues of the public interest. I agree that the Bill is correct in leaving the power to investigate the substance of individual complaints within the current internal system, thus not intruding into the chain of command. However, the question is: if there are substantial systemic issues, which always happen in any organisation, should the new ombudsman have the power to highlight these issues and make recommendations to the Defence Council? I hope that when he replies, my noble friend the Minister might deal with that aspect.
My attention has been drawn to the office of the Canadian ombudsman—as the old adage says, “Don’t reinvent the wheel”. Could the Minister comment on why the UK ombudsman will not have two powers held by the Canadian equivalent? First, there is the ability in compelling circumstances to deal with the substance of the complaint as distinct from only investigating the process. Secondly, there is the power to issue reports concerning any investigation considered to be in the public interest—the noble Baroness, Lady Dean, referred to that to some extent. I see that as being when the system is not working and when it goes beyond dealing with the faults in the process of any individual case.
I hope that my noble friend the Minister will be able to explain why new Section 340L makes no reference to the sanctions which would apply if the ombudsman’s investigation shows maladministration. What compensation should the aggrieved party receive? Would the complainant receive the compensation, or would the guilty party just be fined by the Defence Council? I have seen so much of this in local government, where an ombudsman may find against the local authority, or whatever, and the local authority is fined a modest sum for some maladministration but the complainant is often left high and dry and thus has to go to some other court to get some solution.
There appears to have been general approval of this Bill, which we do not often get in this Chamber, but there is a lurking fear that an opportunity may be lost by not including in compelling circumstances an empowerment to look at the underlying complaint. That is noticeably missing from the ombudsman’s powers.
Armed Forces
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for the Motion, and I join other noble Lords in the comments about the commemoration of the First World War. So many of us in this House had relatives in that war; I had an uncle who died as a young volunteer at 17 years old in the First World War.
We must answer the question, “What is the purpose of our Armed Forces?”, before ascertaining the role in achieving that purpose. Over the centuries, Britain has been used to having a strong military arm and being a force within the world. I am proud of that history and have great hopes and expectations for the future, but we should be clear about the purpose of the Armed Forces. Is it purely that of pride? There is nothing wrong with pride. Is it fear of enemies, known and unknown, and preparation for conflicts, known and unknown? Is it because we cannot contemplate being defenceless? The purpose must surely include defence of the realm and use of the Armed Forces in domestic emergencies such as floods, as we have just seen, fires during firefighters’ strikes, which we have just seen, and security at events such as the Olympic Games, which we have seen. It should also include armed contributions to NATO, United Nations and European defence forces. Should it include a presence in hot spots around the world, be it policing, advising, training or, more controversially, what is described as “boots on the ground”? When we can answer those questions, we need to consider the number of personnel needed in the Army, the Navy—on which I defer to the vast experience of the noble Lord, Lord West—and the Air Force, and whether what we have, or will have, is sufficient. We need to audit regularly the equipment, vehicles, vessels and aircraft to see whether they fulfil that purpose.
I wish to comment on troop reductions, to which many noble Lords will no doubt refer. We cannot ignore the strain that our forces are under, and the insufficient number of reservists being recruited to counter reductions in regular troops. The Army will be reduced to 82,000 by 2018 but, earlier this month, the National Audit Office revealed that plans to recruit 30,000 reservists, while regulars are reduced by 20,000, are a shocking six years behind schedule. There are also, of course, reductions in the Navy and the RAF. Equally worrying is that these cuts could cost more than they save. I agree with the Government’s policy and believe that what we are doing is necessary, but I hope that my noble friend the Minister, when replying, will refute the opinion of the Commons Public Accounts Committee that the MoD is paying an additional £1 million a month to cover what the Labour chairman of that committee cited as “incompetence” in the department—something with which I do not agree. The noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, whose speech I look forward to later in the debate, recently told the BBC’s “World at One” programme that confidence that Army 2020 will succeed,
“is based on a certain degree of wishful thinking”.
The noble Lord is certainly not alone; I share many of his concerns about how this plan is being implemented, the real costs of it and the likelihood of its success.
On troop care, I am proud that the Government have enshrined in law the military covenant, to which many noble Lords will refer. However, that means we cannot ignore the strain our forces are under. It also increases the onus on us to make sure that we live up to our responsibilities to our service personnel. We must make sure that everyone, from those on the front line to returning veterans, is properly looked after. I welcome the structured mental health assessments that are now routinely done on returning service personnel, and the other measures that this Government have introduced to try to combat post-traumatic stress disorder and other mental health issues suffered by troops. In a sense, that carries on seamlessly from our previous debate on the Bill this afternoon.
Given these reductions in troop numbers, the Armed Forces must make sure that they are making the best use of the talent they have available. This includes allowing women to serve in front-line combat roles, something which I am very pleased this Government are encouraging. This year, the Israel Defense Forces appointed its first female combat battalion commander, the quite formidable Major Oshrat Bachar, who I believe was promoted to colonel last month. The IDF also has the Caracal battalion, a combat unit which is 70% female, as well as female soldiers in the elite commando canine unit “Oketz”. In that country the only objection to having women on the front line is a religious one—nothing else. I hope that we can use women as combat troops when they wish it and we consider that it is necessary. Despite concerns from noble friends, we know that diverse organisations work better. As evidenced in other countries, there is no reason why that should not be the case in our Armed Forces. The words of Kipling come to mind:
“For the female of the species is more deadly than the male”.
I am sure that many other noble Lords will talk about equipment. When the Minister responds, can he comment on the problems encountered with the F-35B Lightning Joint Strike Fighter and the reports that its engine exhaust becomes so hot it can melt tarmac and potentially put the plane at risk? I understand that the MoD is building three heat-resistant pads at RAF Marham in Norfolk, where the plane will be based. We are about to order—or we may already have ordered—the first 14 out of a total of 48 to replace the Harrier. Am I therefore correct that the planes can land conventionally but can take off vertically only from carriers—at least one of which is coming into service—and Marham? Can my noble friend confirm whether we have considered the strong runway at Manston airport, which my noble friend Lord Astor and I have discussed, although it is threatened with closure?
I trust that when the Minister replies he will include comments on how we stand on cyber warfare and cyber defence.
The Minister referred to areas of instability, and many other noble Lords will, no doubt, cover the situations in Iraq, Syria and other places. When we consider the role of the Armed Forces, we must look at the current, very worrying situations in Iraq and Syria. I know we are all very concerned, as we read of and see the brutality of ISIS. The Liberal Democrats warned of the troubles of engaging in war in Iraq and, sadly, many of those predictions have come true. While there may at some point be a requirement for targeted air raids or no-fly zones, we must not repeat the mistakes of the past by putting British boots on the ground once again in Iraq.
I support the restructuring of our Armed Forces but still have worries about the speed of increase in the reserves. I welcome the reinvigorated Reserve Forces, as my noble friend said, being integrated as a new force concept—something that is over and above just a matter of numbers. I support the full-spectrum capability.
Reference has been made to the HMS “Queen Elizabeth” aircraft carrier. It is a welcome base, and I have exchanged words on this in the past. Obviously, having one or perhaps two carriers is great for pride and moveability, and will provide the capability of a platform for our aircraft throughout the world. That is, of course, water under the bridge, if that is the right expression. What can one do? They are there: one is coming into service and the other will either come into service or be tied up at the dock. However, I refer to the comments of the noble Lord, Lord West, about there being only 19 frigates and destroyers. The carriers must be where the money is being spent, to some extent, but if that is the case, the net result will be a sad reduction into a minimal number of other naval vessels because money cannot be spent twice. However, we are where we are and I welcome the carriers as a moveable force. I only hope—given all my other comments and those of other noble Lords—that we have on those carriers the personnel and equipment needed to serve this country.
Defence Reform Bill
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Roper (LD)
My Lords, like the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, I want merely to express my gratitude to my noble friend the Minister for having brought forward an amendment which, as he explained, goes somewhat further than the amendment we considered on Report. Like others who have been involved in these discussions, I am very grateful that he has taken so much care to ensure that this matter is properly dealt with and that we have in the statute a very good basis so that if at some stage we come to consider the introduction of Part 1, we will have useful material for the parliamentary consideration. I have great pleasure in saying that I am keen to support the amendment.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, all credit is due not only to the noble and gallant Lord and my noble friend Lord Roper but to the Labour Front Bench for starting this ball rolling and developing it into an affirmative or, perhaps I should say, slightly super-affirmative Motion, to which I hope the House will agree.
Lord Rosser (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister explained the background to this amendment which arose from an undertaking that he gave when we last discussed the Bill. I should like to take this opportunity to explain our position on the amendment and our views on it.
We welcome the amendment as it represents a move from the Government’s previous stance that the affirmative order without any associated requirements stated in the Bill would be sufficient, if passed by both Houses, for a future Government to change significantly defence procurement services by making arrangements for such services to be provided by a company to the Secretary of State under contract. The Government’s amendment does not go as far as we would wish, given that the Government were not prepared, as we sought, to withdraw Part 1 when it became known that they could no longer proceed before the general election with their preferred option to go down the road provided for in Part 1. We argued for a super-affirmative procedure involving an independent examination of a future Government’s case for bringing in an outside company to provide defence procurement services and for a report on that independent review by the House of Commons Defence Select Committee prior to Parliament being asked to make a decision on the affirmative order. That did not find favour with the Government either.
What we do have is the Government’s amendment providing for a report to Parliament on the options for carrying out defence procurement with a requirement, as the Minister said, that one option that must be covered in the report is the carrying out of defence procurement by the Secretary of State in the way it is carried out at the time the report is prepared. In other words, the effectiveness or otherwise of the new DE&S-plus-plus organisation that started to come into effect a couple of days ago, at the beginning of this month, will have to be compared with any other proposed arrangements that a future Government may wish to introduce. That is important because the Minister said in the debate on this issue in Committee that if it had been a matter for this Government rather than a future Government, they would have looked at the outside company option—the GOCO—only if the new DE&S-plus-plus organisation now being introduced did not transform the defence procurement operation.
If a future Government adopt the same approach, the report on the effectiveness of the new DE&S-plus-plus organisation will be crucial, as will be the objectivity of that future Government’s assessment of DE&S-plus-plus and their case for believing that the GOCO option would be more successful. Proper time will be needed to evaluate and consider the report to Parliament from that future Government, as provided for in this amendment, if that Government decide they want to go down the GOCO route and not to continue with the new DE&S-plus-plus organisation.
A big concern we have about the Government’s amendment is that it does not lay down any minimum timescale, either directly or indirectly, between the report on the options for carrying out defence procurement being laid before Parliament and the associated affirmative order being considered by Parliament. A future Government, having made up their mind that they wanted to go down the GOCO route, might be tempted to try to rush through the affirmative order. In that context, I cannot help but recall that this Government, in declining to withdraw Part 1, argued that there might in future be a need to bring in the GOCO option with a minimum of delay—an odd argument, bearing in mind that the Government themselves had just had to delay their intentions on the GOCO option by at least two or three years, but nevertheless an indication of a Government’s thinking that they might seek to make the change as quickly as possible at the possible expense of proper scrutiny. Hence my comments and concerns that the Government’s amendment does not provide any real check on such an intention by a future Government.
However, despite our reservations, we shall not oppose the Government’s amendment, as it clearly represents progress towards our position and a move away from the Government’s earlier stance. We are grateful for the support there has been from other noble Lords in pressing the Government to move from their initial stance that affirmative orders, without any associated requirements that would also have to be met, were sufficient.
Armed Forces: Biofuels
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Excerpts(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, I am delighted that the noble Lord asked that question. I assure him that we are working very closely with the motorsport industry, which—as the noble Lord knows better than most—is expert in lightweighting and energy-efficient use of fuel. All Formula 1 engines have advanced energy recovery systems that reduce their fuel capacity by 40% and reduce their engine size, too, but must deliver the same power output. Race cars recover and store significantly increased energy from braking and from their turbochargers.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)
My Lords, they are using more biofuels in the United States, particularly in the Sikorsky Blackhawk helicopter and—as the noble Lord, Lord Soley, said—in the navy’s farm-to-fleet project. That has had a significant effect on the change of use from food crops to biofuels. Taking a slightly different line from other questions, will the Minister tell the House that the Army, Navy and Air Force will look closely into the development of biofuels and how it affects the reduction of food production in the UK?
Lord Astor of Hever
My Lords, I stand by my response to my noble friend earlier. As I said, this is for use only where UK regulations oblige fuel manufacturers to include them. As that use is both limited and obligatory, the MoD has no plans to conduct any form of appraisal.