Electronic Commerce Directive (Financial Services and Markets) (Amendment) Order 2015
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Lord Newby
That the draft orders and regulations laid before the House on 17 December 2014, 21 and 29 January and 3 February 2015 be approved.
Relevant documents: 17th, 21st and 22nd Reports from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments and 24th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments (special attention drawn to the instrument). Considered in Grand Committee on 2 March.
Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill
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Lord Newby
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, Amendments 7 to 19 and 84 make two technical but essential changes to the cheque-clearing provisions relating, first, to consistency in the treatment of cheque and non-cheque paper instruments and, secondly, to the continuation of current statutory protections for the paying customer.
Amendments 7 to 9 and 19 are designed to ensure that non-cheque instruments, such as warrants and travellers’ cheques, are treated in the same way as traditional paper cheques under the new provisions for electronic presentment. Under the new legislation for cheque imaging, as currently drafted, it would be possible for corporate customers and other large non-bank customers to make arrangements to submit cheque images directly to the central switch that clears cheque transactions for all member banks, rather than their bank submitting images on their behalf. This would make the clearing process more efficient. However, the current drafting means that this option will not be available for non-cheque paper instruments that are not drawn on a bank.
The Government’s policy intention is to provide for a system that treats cheques and non-cheques in the same way, and therefore it is necessary to make these amendments to ensure the equal treatment of non-cheque instruments in all circumstances of presentment. On the basis of current practice, this approach does not present any difficulties. However, it is possible that the position could change in the future—for example, as a result of the development of new types of instruments that do not currently exist. For this reason, Amendment 9 confers a power on the Treasury to restrict the circumstances in which presentment by image is permissible. This power is intended to be used to deal only with any unforeseen issues that may arise in the future and could not be used to have any retrospective effect on instruments that have already been presented by image. It is subject to the affirmative procedure.
Amendment 12 is intended to ensure the continuation of current statutory protections for the paying customer. Under the existing cheque clearing system, a customer who makes a payment with a cheque can request the original cheque to be stamped “paid”, which stands as prima facie evidence that the payee has received the amount payable. This provides a protection for the payer in situations where the payee claims that they have not received payment.
The legislation for cheque imaging does not provide for an equivalent protection when cheques or other paper instruments are paid in by electronic image and the physical instrument does not end up in the possession of a bank. It has become clear that the loss of this protection would remove a useful service currently relied upon by some cheque users. Therefore, it is necessary to make an amendment to preserve this type of protection for the paying customer under electronic cheque clearing. This amendment will confer a power on the Treasury to make appropriate provision in regulations, subject to the affirmative procedure, because the precise nature of the evidence to be provided to the payer may depend on the technical design of the clearing system. The regulations will be able to set out the nature of the evidence to be provided to the payer and the effect of that evidence, including the weight to be given to such evidence.
Amendments 10, 11, 13 to 18 and 84 are consequential amendments dealing with the procedure for making regulations under Amendments 9 and 12, and they provide minor and technical clarifications of the drafting.
To conclude, these amendments will ensure that the provisions for electronic presentment treat cheques and non-cheques consistently and that existing customer protections continue under the new system. I beg to move.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I welcome the contribution to this debate by the noble Lord, Lord Newby, and for his helpful explanation of the matters that are being considered by this large group of amendments. We had a fair bash at this in Committee, so I was a little surprised to see so many additional regulations on this matter, particularly as this is an attempt to simplify rather than make more complicated an already rather obscure area of financial transactions. Indeed, in some senses these amendments seem to take us back rather than forward in that they seem to provide a bolstering of a paper-based or evidence-based solution to a number of things that one would have hoped could have moved on to an electronic age. But I am sure that the intention behind them is entirely correct, and we support the general direction of the move.
I wanted to pick up on one point. In the wording of the amendments on the Marshalled List there is reference to the power for the Treasury to make regulations, but it does not specify how they are to be exercised in practice. I agree that the number of occasions will be limited, but the Minister mentioned that the first group would be subject to the affirmative procedure and did not say anything about the second or third groups and whether they would be subject to the negative or the affirmative procedures. Could he clarify that for me please before we leave this point? If it is too difficult to do now, I am very happy to have that in correspondence, but we have no objection to this in general.
Lord Newby
My Lords, I think I said that the second group would be subject to affirmative resolution. My understanding is that the two issues that we are debating will both be subject to the affirmative procedure. If I am mistaken, of course I will write to the noble Lord.
Lord Newby
Electronic Commerce Directive (Financial Services and Markets) (Amendment) Order 2015
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Lord Newby
That the Grand Committee do consider the Electronic Commerce Directive (Financial Services and Markets) (Amendment) Order 2015.
Relevant document: 17th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, I shall speak also to the draft Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Miscellaneous Provisions) Order 2015. I am pleased to introduce these statutory instruments.
The Government have fundamentally reformed regulation of the consumer credit market, transferring regulatory responsibility from the Office of Fair Trading to the Financial Conduct Authority on 1 April last year. The FCA is better resourced and more empowered than its predecessor and has been equipped with flexible rule-making powers to ensure that it keeps pace with developments in the market. The FCA regime is already having a significant positive impact and is helping to deliver the Government’s vision for an effective and sustainable consumer credit market that is able to meet consumers’ needs.
The raising of standards will improve further as the FCA undertakes authorisation assessments to assess firms’ fitness to trade—a process that has already begun for those industries regarded as the riskiest, including payday lending—and these instruments to be debated today help to support the effectiveness of the FCA’s regulatory regime.
First, the e-commerce order provides the FCA with powers to tackle credit firms, including payday lenders, which abuse their rights under the e-commerce directive to evade FCA rules. As noble Lords will be aware, the Government have taken robust action significantly to improve protections for consumers in the payday lending market. The Government transferred regulatory responsibility to the FCA’s powerful new regime and legislated to require the FCA to introduce a cap on the cost of payday loans.
The Government strongly welcome the payday lending rules introduced last year by the FCA, including limits on rollovers and the use of continuous payment authorities, and tougher requirements around affordability assessments. On 2 January, the FCA’s cap on the cost of payday loans came into force, as required by the Government. Consumers are far better protected under the FCA regime. The FCA has a wide-ranging enforcement toolkit to take action where wrongdoing is found, and the rigorous authorisation process for payday lenders is under way.
FCA regulation is already having a dramatic impact on the payday market—indeed, the FCA found that the volume of payday loans fell by 35% in the first six months since it took over regulation. These data are from before the cost cap took effect in January.
The Government are committed to preventing the gaming of the FCA’s regulatory regime, including the risk that lenders seek to relocate abroad and lend back into the UK. The important powers in this order will protect UK consumers by giving the FCA powers to take action against credit firms that abuse their rights under the e-commerce directive to establish themselves in another EEA member state but lend primarily to the UK. The powers will enable the FCA to require credit firms to comply with FCA rules—including, in the case of payday lenders, the price cap—or require them to seek full authorisation to continue carrying out their activities. The order therefore represents an important reinforcement of the FCA regulatory regime, helping to protect UK consumers from unfair costs and harmful practices.
I turn now to the miscellaneous order. This order will address a number of technical issues to ensure that consumer credit regulation strikes the right balance between proportionate burdens on business and providing robust protections for consumers. In particular, the order makes several provisions to minimise unnecessary regulatory burdens on firms.
For example, the order adjusts the working definition of a “domestic premises supplier”. This definition is important because it requires firms selling goods in a customer’s home to comply with the higher regulatory standards in the FCA’s “full permission” regime, thereby helping to protect consumers from the pressure-selling of goods or services on credit. However, it is important that this definition is drawn correctly to minimise unnecessary regulatory burdens on businesses and support the provision of goods and services to consumers.
The order ensures that firms providing goods or services in a home where no attempt is made to sell other goods or services, or anything extra provided is free of charge, are not regarded as “domestic premises suppliers”—for example, where a mobility aid supplier simply visits the customer’s home to measure up before a contract is signed, or where a kitchen supplier delivers and installs an item after it has been ordered. These firms can therefore benefit from the FCA’s lower-cost “limited permission” regime.
The order also makes a number of other technical adjustments to ensure proportionate regulatory burdens. For example, it ensures that solicitors—who are already subject to their professional regulatory regime—will not require FCA regulation when undertaking credit activities incidental to the firm’s professional services. I beg to move.
Lord Sharkey (LD)
My Lords, I will speak only to the first of the two orders before us. This order has the usual eye-catching name for such things: the Electronic Commerce Directive (Financial Services and Markets) (Amendment) Order 2015. A better and clearer name for the SI would be: “Closing a Gigantic Payday Lending Loophole”, because, as the Minister said, that is exactly what the SI does.
On 9 December 2013, in response to amendments put down by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, and by me, the Government finally accepted the need for strict control of payday lending. The FCA rules that followed capped the cost of payday loans and limited the number of permitted rollovers. They also created the conditions for real-time data-sharing by lenders in order to reduce the incidence of multiple simultaneous loans. The Treasury and the FCA are to be congratulated on that. Together, with some prompting from your Lordships’ House, they have entirely changed the nature of the payday loan sector in the United Kingdom. What started out as outrageous and cruel usury has been reduced to more or less sensible costs and more or less sensible limits. The capacity of payday lenders to inflict terrible damage, as they were doing, on the most disadvantaged has been severely reduced, and I am pleased to be able to say that many payday lenders have simply shut up shop in the UK as a consequence of the new regime.
I do not think that the situation is ideal yet because, for many of us, the number of rollovers is too high, there is not yet a proper real-time database of loans outstanding and there is no mechanism for automatically preventing multiple simultaneous loans. Of course, as we speak, payday lenders are busy changing their business models in ways that will require continued vigilance on our part. We will have to see how all that works out.
In the debate of 9 December 2013, I raised for the first time the question of what seemed to me a gigantic loophole in the proposed new regulations. This was the loophole to do with the e-commerce directive, which we are discussing. As the Minister said, this directive would allow any payday lender to avoid our regulation if they were based elsewhere in the EEA and were trading in the UK only electronically. This would mean that any payday loan company could continue to operate in the UK but entirely outside our rules, caps and limits if it were based in the EEA and had no bricks and mortar presence here in the UK.
I asked the Treasury at the time what it intended to do about this. I had subsequent conversations with the Minister and officials about the problem. This order is, as the Minister correctly said, the solution to that problem. It closes the gigantic loophole in the regulations. If payday loan companies based abroad now try to use the e-commerce directive to avoid UK regulation, they can now be stopped from operating in the UK or forced to comply with our rules if they want to continue to operate in the UK. This is a very good and very necessary step forward, and I am delighted that the Government and the FCA have acted.
As the Minister said, this new order adds to the protection against the immoral and unscrupulous exploitation of the most vulnerable people in our society. However, it is a Treasury order and it is written in the Treasury’s normal, deathless—meaning, obvious-on-the-face-of-it—prose, which means that there are just a couple of questions that I would like to ask the Minister.
New Regulation 11A lists the kinds of activities that the order will apply to. Can the Minister say whether this list includes debt management companies? I know that he is aware of the wholly unacceptable charges and practices of some companies operating in this sector.
New Regulation 11B (2)(a) seems a little ambiguous. It says that the authority must be satisfied that the incoming provider,
“directs all or most of its activity to the United Kingdom”.
The question is: how is “most” to be interpreted here? Does it mean “most” by weight of advertising, “most” by number of customers or “most” by the value of lending to those UK customers? How will the authority arrive at a measure of whichever interpretation of “most” it wants to use? I very much hope that my noble friend the Minister will be able to say that the FCA will be able to use all or any of the above interpretations and that it will be able to use, as a conclusive determination, whatever measures it considers reasonable.
Those are details but, in this area, detail is often absolutely critical. However, I do not want the detail to overshadow my congratulations to my noble friend the Minister and the FCA. They have closed a potentially very damaging loophole in the payday regulations.
Lord Newby
My Lords, I thank both noble Lords who have participated in this debate. I, too, congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, on his persistence in this area and on drawing this issue to the attention of the Government for the first time, I think. When he first did so, it was by no means clear that there was a legal route which enabled us to deal adequately with payday loan companies which just moved offshore. He spurred the creative minds in the Treasury to come up with a legal route, so we are extremely grateful to him for that.
He asked a couple of very specific questions, including whether the provisions include debt management companies. The answer to that is yes, they do. He asked how one defines “most” and gave a number of contributory definitions of “most”. It is for the FCA to determine that definition on a case-by-case basis. It will take into account all the factors in deciding how to do it.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, spoke of the Labour Party’s wish to promote a safer and more ethical lending environment. I think we all share that wish. That is why we have taken action on payday lending and have taken a range of actions to promote mutuals and credit unions, including giving £38 million to the credit union expansion project and undertaking a review of how we can promote credit unions further. Credit unions are, in the medium term, probably the best bet we have for many people having easy access to proper financial services and small loans. A key thing now will be to get credit unions up to the ease-of-use level that the payday loan providers have. To be critical of the payday loan sector, its great strength and weakness is that it is so easy to use. It is not so easy to get access electronically to your credit union account or to loans via credit unions. One of the key things that the credit union expansion project is doing is improving back-office infrastructure to enable credit unions’ systems to be more user-friendly, particularly for young people who are used to electronic methods of banking. I do not think we disagree on that.
The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked about the definition of “domestic premises supplier”. The key is to ensure that firms selling in the home, where there is a risk of pressure selling, are subject to greater regulatory scrutiny. We are clarifying that this includes where firms promote themselves as being willing to visit consumers in their homes. That makes them a domestic premises supplier, irrespective of the number of visits they make. This will make it easier for firms and the regulator to judge on which side of the line they fall. I think—and I will write to the noble Lord if I am wrong on this—that there is a big difference between a company that sells in its shop or online and then just delivers stuff to your house and a company which comes and gives a quote in your house. That is the sort of distinction we are trying to make. If I can expand on that further in any helpful way, I will do so.
Lord Tunnicliffe
I thank the noble Lord for that promise. I find the description that he just gave entirely understandable and reasonable but then I look at the draft legislation. It takes a heroic understanding of words to move from those in the order to the explanation I have just heard. If nothing else, I shall value the letter that explains how you move in such a way.
Lord Newby
It will be a great pleasure to give the noble Lord something of such value. We will attempt to do that.
Finally, the noble Lord asked whether we were satisfied with the performance of the FCA in taking over the reins of the OFT. The short answer is yes. Looking at the payday loans element alone, the impact of the FCA, combined with the legislative procedures that have been put in place, has been very dramatic in a direction that most people would welcome. The relative speed with which it was able to get the cap agreed and implemented is an example of that. The short answer to that question is yes, but of course both the Government and Parliament will scrutinise carefully what it does in future.
Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Banking Reform) (Pensions) Regulations 2015
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Lord Newby
That the Grand Committee do consider the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Banking Reform) (Pensions) Regulations 2015.
Relevant document: 21st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, these regulations ensure that a ring-fenced retail bank cannot be liable for pensions obligations arising from other parts of its wider banking group. These regulations are the final piece of secondary legislation necessary to bring about the ring-fencing of retail banking from investment banking. In completing this process, these regulations represent the final piece of legislation needed to complete the biggest ever overhaul of Britain’s banking system.
On election, the Government set themselves the task of fixing the banking system following the worst banking crisis in the entirety of British history. In 2010 we set up the Independent Commission on Banking—the ICB—led by Sir John Vickers to consider the options for structural reform of the banking sector. The ICB recommended ring-fencing core retail banking services from investment banking and trading.
Ring-fencing will insulate crucial core retail banking services, such as the taking of personal deposits, from shocks originating elsewhere in the financial system, and will make banks simpler and easier to resolve. This will help curtail the implicit government guarantee enjoyed by banks that are seen as too big to fail, and will protect taxpayer money from ever again being used to provide solvency support for failing banks.
One of the recommendations of the Independent Commission on Banking was that ring-fenced banks should not have any liabilities to group-wide pension schemes. The Financial Services (Banking Reform) Act 2013 gave the Government the power to ensure this, and these regulations exercise that power. They require ring-fenced banks to make arrangements to ensure that they do not have any shared pension liabilities with other group members or outside companies—with the exception of other ring-fenced bodies within the same group, and wholly owned subsidiaries. The regulations also give powers to the banks and to the trustees of banks’ pension schemes to ensure that the necessary changes can be made, and set out the role of the regulators, the PRA and the pension regulator for monitoring and assessing the changes.
The regulations are a necessary part of ensuring that there is a robust ring-fence in place protecting core banking services. Any shared pension liabilities could pose a huge risk to the viability of the overall ring-fence and could threaten the ability of the ring-fenced bank to maintain the provision of vital services. Collectively, the large banks run their pension schemes at a deficit that reaches the multiple billions of pounds. This means that were a non-ring-fenced investment bank to fail, the ring-fenced bank could suddenly be left with a large pension liability in the many millions, or even billions, of pounds that it might be unable to pay.
Although implementing these regulations will have some transitional cost to the banks, the measure is clearly good value for money. The cost to the banks is hard to estimate, but the Treasury expects it to be in the tens or low hundreds of millions of pounds. This is relatively small in comparison to the cost of the broad ring-fencing package.
Furthermore, ring-fencing itself is the best strategy for structural reform of UK banks. The plan to ring-fence UK banks is based on the comprehensive work of the Independent Commission on Banking. The mechanisms by which ring-fencing will help financial stability are clear. The ring-fenced retail banks will be insulated from shocks elsewhere in the financial system. They will have higher capital requirements, which will improve their resilience. Ring-fencing will make banks’ structures simpler and will provide additional options to the regulator for a bank to be restructured, which will help resolution in the case of failure. By ensuring economic and operational independence, ring-fencing will achieve the objective of complete separation of retail banking from investment banking while still allowing the bank to benefit from its relationship with the wider banking group.
We firmly believe that this is the most cost-effective and proportionate option, and one that will ensure the long-term stability of the sector. The regulations play a key part in building a robust ring-fence and a stable banking sector, and I commend them to the Committee.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I sat through the creation of the Act to which these regulations relate. Broadly speaking, it had cross-party support. This is, as the Minister pointed out, a key element in completing the picture and therefore I welcome it. However, having spent several years serving on the Merits of Statutory Instruments Committee of your Lordships’ House, I can only join in its complaint—it is now called the House of Lords Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee—from its 26th report, published on 10 February. The committee said:
“In the EM, HMT gives limited information about the consultation process which was held from July to October 2014, referring only to a number of technical changes made in the light of consultation responses, as well as to two substantial changes in order to limit the burden on the banks and regulators. Though the draft Regulations were laid on 21 January, HMT had not published the summary of responses by 10 February. We are clear that Departments should publish their consultation summaries no later than the time of laying the instruments concerned before Parliament, as we set out in the report of our inquiry into Government consultation practice. In our view, Parliament should be asked to consider secondary legislation only when Government have provided adequate information, including about consultation, to support such consideration”.
I agree with the comments in that report. I believe that that general principle should be kept to and I am disappointed that the Treasury, in this particular case, has failed.
Also, what progress is being made in this whole ring-fencing process? As the Minister will recall, there was a degree of scepticism from our Benches and other places that the timescales that the banks had to create their ring-fence structures were extended. Can the Minister give the Committee some indication of what progress the banks are making in that extended timescale and what processes the Government and presumably the PRA, the FCA or whatever is the appropriate combination are putting in place to ensure that the banks are progressing towards their ring-fenced state and that we do not once again end up in a situation where too-big-to-fail institutions land us with a fait accompli and say, “We haven’t done it yet: we’ll do it later”. With those comments, I have no objection to the regulations in principle because, as the Minister said, they complete the picture to create ring-fenced entities.
Lord Newby
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his comments. On the consultation and the publication of the consultation response document, I am sorry that it was not published earlier. It has now been published. Compared with most SIs that we take through your Lordships’ House, this is actually—though important—quite short, and has a single purpose.
Lord Tunnicliffe
I also take the point that compared with the importance of the SI this is a modest point, but to a poor opposition spokesman like myself, without a wonderful array of staff behind me, if a document is not signalled in the EM I have great trouble actually finding it. While I am sure that the statement has been published and is right, surely it should be a matter of discipline that it should be published before it is laid, and every effort should be made to make sure that any documents referenced are referenced in the Explanatory Memorandum.
Lord Newby
I agree with the noble Lord. It is very difficult from the document itself to gain any sense of where pressure points or disagreements might be, and things should be published promptly, as the rules suggest.
The noble Lord asked how the ring-fence process is going. This is the final piece of secondary legislation required to implement ring-fencing. By passing it now, we have fulfilled our commitment to legislate for ring-fencing by the end of the Parliament. Further ring-fencing rules, which do not require legislation, are now being consulted on in two consultation papers and being put in place by the PRA. The PRA’s first ring-fencing consultation closed in January, and it is on course to publish its second consultation paper later this year. The big banks that have to implement ring-fencing are fully engaged with the PRA and, in January, gave their initial plans for ring-fencing to the PRA. So there is a bit of an iterative process going on between the drafting of rules and the banks’ own thoughts about how best they might do it. The other thing that has been happening is that Lloyds and RBS have been making changes to their business by winding down certain of their activities, both in terms of geographical spread and contracting some of their investment banking activities in anticipation of ring-fencing coming into effect. As far as we are aware and can see, both the regulators and the banks appear to be on track to have the ring-fencing successfully implemented in due time by 2018.
Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2015
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Lord Newby
That the Grand Committee do consider the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2015.
Relevant document: 23rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments (Special attention drawn to the instrument)
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, this instrument creates a new regulated activity in the Financial Conduct Authority’s regulated activities order. The new activity concerns the giving of advice on the conversion or transfer of a class of pension benefits known as safeguarded benefits, which are defined in the Pension Schemes Bill 2014-15, but are best understood as benefits that the Government have taken a decision to safeguard, because they offer a guaranteed income in retirement that is assessed to be particularly valuable. They include benefits commonly referred to as defined benefit, but also include benefits that offer other guarantees or promises. This new activity relates to a safeguard being created by the Pension Schemes Bill 2014-15 in the context of the new pensions freedoms announced at Budget 2014. The advice safeguard requires scheme trustees and managers to check that members have received appropriate independent advice before transferring or converting safeguarded rights into rights which can be accessed flexibly, and before paying an uncrystallised funds pension lump sum in respect of safeguarded benefits. This safeguard will ensure that members have fully considered the implications of giving up rights that provide a valuable guaranteed income in retirement. It is important that this safeguard is operational from 6 April 2015, when the new pension freedoms come into force.
In July 2015, the Government’s response to the consultation on freedom and choice in pensions committed that advice required under the safeguard would be provided by an FCA-authorised adviser. This instrument helps deliver on that commitment. This instrument provides for advice on the conversion and transfer of safeguarded benefits into flexible benefits to be regulated by the FCA in accordance with the regulatory framework established by the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.
Without this order, the FCA would regulate only advice on transfers of safeguarded rights to contract-based schemes. The new regulated activity created by the instrument allows the FCA to regulate advice on all transfers of safeguarded rights and interests to trust-based schemes that can be accessed flexibly. The Government want to ensure that the consumer interest is prudently accounted for in the context of the new pensions freedom, and therefore this instrument has been brought forward to ensure the proper operation and consistent regulation of advice provided under the safeguard.
The approach of defining the appropriate independent advice required under the advice safeguard by reference to a new FCA-regulated activity was indicated during the Lords Committee stage of the Pensions Schemes Bill on 12 January this year. Amendments to the Bill were the made at Lords Report stage on 27 January to provide that the appropriate independent advice required by the Bill should be provided by a person who,
“has permission under Part 4A of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 … to carry on a regulated activity specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State”.
The House was informed in early January that the Treasury would lay an instrument to create the relevant regulatory activity. This is the order we are now debating.
The Financial Conduct Authority will set out in a forthcoming consultation paper the precise standards of advice it will require. This paper, which will be published very shortly, taken together with the Pension Schemes Bill, its regulations and this order, will ensure that the advice safeguard is robust, effective and fully operational when the pension freedoms come into force in April 2015.
I commend the order to the Committee and beg to move.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for presenting this order. He has clarified my only concern of understanding. I wish I had had the conversation with him four or five working hours ago. As I understand it, the order does all sorts of bits and bobs, but its essence is in Article 7.8 which fills a hole in the FCA applying these standards to the transfer to trust-based schemes. It took me a great deal of time to find out the difference between a contract-based scheme and a trust-based scheme. I shall not repeat my understanding lest I have it wrong, but that seems to be the essence of the order.
The “Regulatory Triage Assessment – final stage” document offers three alternatives. Option 2 is:
“Amend the FCA’s Regulated Activities Order via statutory instrument such that advice on occupational transfers is fully regulated”.
It does not give a very convincing reason why it should not do this. It is not that we are not supporting this Bill. The Opposition have not opposed the general essence of what the Chancellor is trying to do, but the size of what is happening and the importance of quality advice cannot be overstated.
I believe it has been estimated that perhaps some 500,000 defined benefit scheme holders may seek transfers almost straightaway. I think that a firm called Hargreaves Lansdown has done that. Given the very sudden discontinuity that will occur in April, is the Minister confident that the advice industry has the capacity to meet people’s needs? Does the pensions industry have the ability to meet the apparently thousands of transfer requests that it will face? Is the Minister happy that the mechanisms are available to protect the public from fraudulent operators? Does the Minister think that the Government have done enough to educate the public on the size and challenge of the changes they face? I happened to come across an article in the Observer this weekend which was rather less than reassuring. It said:
“Figures from insurance company Zurich show that, while the average length of retirement is 25 years, over half the population believe they will be retired for 20 years or less. Most people also predict they will not live beyond 85. But figures suggest half of people retiring now could live to 90 or beyond”.
That does not show an appropriate level of public understanding in facing this significant change. The noble Lord’s colleague, Steve Webb, the Minister in the other place, did not exactly use resoundingly assuring language in the article. He said:
“We wouldn’t be doing it if we thought it was a disaster, but you do take a risk when you trust people with their own money”.
I wish that his tone had been slightly more reassuring—I hope that the Government have a rather greater aspiration than the avoidance of disaster. I hope that in the short time left before April they will do their best to improve the level of education among the general public so that not too many people make decisions that they subsequently regret.
Lord Newby
The noble Lord is quite right to describe the order as filling a hole in the regulatory structure. That is exactly what it does. He talked about two separate changes that are taking place from 1 April. The relatively narrow one in terms of the number of people we think are likely to take advantage of it is the flexibility for people with a defined benefit scheme or other safeguarded scheme to move to a more flexible scheme. That is what the order covers. People in that category are required to take advice via a regulated adviser. We think that the majority of people with safeguarded pensions will find, on taking that advice, that it is in their best interests to retain them. However, it is for them, in discussion with the IFA community, to decide on a case-by-case basis.
I was asked whether there are enough properly qualified people to do the work. There are about 20,000 registered IFAs and around 7,000 of those are pension transfer specialists so it is quite a body of people. Given all the other changes that have taken place in the financial services sector, the concern of the IFAs in recent years has been that there was not enough work to go around—or would not be in future—on their old model of operating. I suspect that for this category of people, there will be adequate advice.
The article to which the noble Lord referred and many of his later comments were about the more general freedoms under which, from April, people will no longer have to take an annuity. There is a different and larger challenge there in terms of providing support for people in that category. As the noble Lord knows, we are setting up a completely new guidance service to advise people in that category. That service will have three strands—web-based, telephone and face-to-face—and is being developed by my colleagues in the Treasury. When I talked to them about this earlier, they assured me that they feel they are on track to have enough people and adequate systems in place to deal with the very large number of requests they will get.
One other thing that my colleague, Steve Webb, said about the change on 1 April was that he suggested people spend the day in bed rather than worry about changing their pensions literally on day one. It is important that people take time to get not just the guidance but also to think about how they want to dispose of the funding they have in their pension pot.
I completely share the concern of the noble Lord and several commentators that many people do not understand pensions at all. They have a pension but that is about all they know about it. One of the great potential benefits of this change and the fact that everybody will get free guidance is that it will help people to understand how a pension works. I think there is a view in a lot of people’s minds that a pot of money called a pension is somehow different in some mysterious way from any other pot of money. The truth is that it is a pot of money available for them to dispose of, now pretty flexibly. People will need to confront their own mortality, possibly in a way that they did not feel they needed to in the past. That is undoubtedly a challenge to people but one that they should face up to, and not just because of how they deal with their pensions. It also affects a whole raft of ways in which they think about their later years. For many people on the normal retirement age, that period will be 30 years or more—a third of their life.
It is a challenge. We are putting in place robust, we hope, measures through the guidance systems in terms of these safeguarded pensions—the subject of this order. That advice will ensure that people get the level of support they need to take the correct decisions and enable them to get the very best out of their pension savings. Of course, at this stage we do not know whether our systems will be as robust as we hope they will be. We do not know quite how people will respond to this. However, I think we have behaved responsibly in not only opening up the freedoms but also putting in place a system to ensure that people can exercise those freedoms in a responsible manner for their own benefit.
Employment Allowance (Care and Support Workers) Regulations 2015
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Lord Newby
That the draft orders and regulations laid before the House on 13 and 19 January be approved.
Relevant documents: 20th and 21st Reports from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. Considered in Grand Committee on 25 February.
Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Miscellaneous Provisions) Order 2015
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Lord Newby
That the Grand Committee do consider the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Miscellaneous Provisions) Order 2015.
Relevant document: 22nd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
Entrepreneurs’ Relief
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Lord Leigh of Hurley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the economic impact of the increase in Entrepreneurs’ Relief since May 2010.
Lord Newby (LD)
My Lords, no formal economic assessment has been made, but HMRC monitors and regularly publishes information on entrepreneurs’ relief and its take-up. The value of entrepreneurs’ relief is forecast to rise from £1.5 billion in 2010-11 to £3 billion in 2014-15. This Government have increased the lifetime limit from £2 million to £10 million and this is expected to benefit those who want to grow their business and reinvest their gains into new enterprises.
Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend and draw your Lordships’ attention to my declaration in the register of interests. The great success of the UK economy has not happened by chance, but by the implementation of policies designed to encourage business. As mentioned, the increase in the cap from £2 million to £10 million has had a dramatic effect in allowing and encouraging entrepreneurs to start new businesses. However, many of them have gone through this cap, which is a lifetime amount. Will the Minister consider taking away that cap and possibly the 5% limitation as well?
Lord Newby
My Lords, as the noble Lord has pointed out, we have increased the cap fivefold. However, we believe at this point that the limit is necessary as part of the overall design of the relief and to ensure that the relief is well targeted and not open to misuse. As I said in my initial Answer, it is worth £3 billion already.
Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, in noting the success of government policies in entrepreneurialism and enterprise, may I draw my noble friend’s attention to the Burt report, entitled Inclusive Support for Women in Enterprise, produced by Lorely Burt MP, the government ambassador for women in enterprise? It has a particularly helpful set of recommendations, not least on the work—and the possibilities for additional work—done by local enterprise partnerships. Do the Government have any plans to give the Burt report their very full consideration?
Lord Newby
My Lords, the Burt report contains a whole raft of really interesting proposals, which the Government will consider. The latest figures that I have show that some 990,000 SMEs are led by women. At about 20% that is a record high, as far as I am aware.
Lord Flight (Con)
My Lords, are the Government aware of the tremendous success of entrepreneurial endeavour—
Lord Flight
Excuse me. I apologise for my extremely embarrassing mobile phone. Is the Treasury monitoring the extent of entrepreneurial activity and success in this country? Never in my lifetime have I known such an explosion of entrepreneurship, particularly among all the new technologies, where other government measures are helping. This is a sort of Schumpeterian thing that is happening, which ensures our future. I find it quite difficult to access detailed figures—for example, on how many of the 1.5 million new companies over the last two years are new enterprises or other things. Is the Treasury monitoring the amazing thing that is happening in this country?
Lord Newby
My Lords, the Treasury is keeping records and noting the number of businesses. There are a record number of private sector businesses in the country at the moment, with an increase of 760,000 compared to 2010. There is of course a whole raft of measures, from having a long-term economic plan that has kept interest rates low to much more specific measures to support small business, which is helping this phenomenal growth.
Lord Liddle (Lab)
My Lords, can the Minister, in praising the Government’s economic record, explain to the House why if entrepreneurship has flourished so much in this country we have one of the largest trade deficits in the world, at 6% of GDP?
Lord Newby
My Lords, we have had a trade deficit for a very considerable time. One of the reasons we have such a large deficit now is that the amount of net income from UK investments abroad has fallen dramatically, not least because a lot of foreign companies have been investing here. However, the Government have set an ambitious target for increasing exports. By common consent, UKTI is far more focused in what it is doing than it has ever been. We are seeing an increasing number of British companies exporting to an increasing number of countries.
Lord Grocott (Lab)
Did I hear the Minister refer to the Government’s “long-term economic plan”? I knew that, in the other place, Conservative Members of Parliament were obliged to say that in all their speeches on every conceivable occasion but I had not realised that the implant was operating in the brains of Liberal Democrats as well. Can he confirm whether that is the case?
Lord Broers (CB)
My Lords, I am sure the Minister realises that there is a point in the growth of new companies, especially high-tech companies, where they have gone through the first phase but their next phase requires not a few million pounds but perhaps £100 million. In Cambridge, we have certainly lost some very successful companies to US investors at that stage. In fact, it is quite a regular occurrence. Are the Government thinking about that, and about perhaps persuading our City to fund some of these new companies and not always leave it to the Americans?
Lord Newby
Yes, my Lords, but while the problem to which the noble Lord refers is of course a long-standing one in the UK, the Government have done a number of things. One is the growth of the enterprise investment scheme, which generated investment of £1 billion in 2012-13. The seed enterprise investment scheme is another, albeit for slightly smaller firms, and some of the initiatives of the Stock Exchange on AIM and the development of the retail bond market are also designed to help fill that funding gap.
Lord Dobbs (Con)
Is my noble friend able to cool fevered brows on opposite Benches and confirm that part of that long-term economic plan is to continue the extraordinarily successful growth of job creation, which has given this country an unemployment and employment record finer than any other economy in Europe?
Lord Newby
My Lords, it is far beyond my powers to cool the fevered brows opposite, but I repeat: we have been extremely successful in terms of private sector employment. Over 2 million additional private sector jobs have been created in this Parliament, which means that we now have more people employed in the UK than ever before, and the joint-highest rate of employment.
Lord Davies of Oldham (Lab)
My Lords, does the long-term economic plan, developed against a background where the Government have postponed the ability to eliminate the deficit, have as a constituent part no decision on the fundamental issue of aviation in terms of Heathrow or the third runway in the south-east? Does it also contain a commitment to continually run a low-wage economy and zero-hour contracts for an awful lot of the people who get new jobs?
Lord Newby
My Lords, growth in the UK this year is the highest in the G7. It will be, at worst, the second highest in the next year. Frankly, this is an economic position of which this Government are extremely proud.
Social Security (Contributions) (Re-rating and National Insurance Funds Payments) Order 2015
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Lord Newby
That the Grand Committee do consider the Social Security (Contributions) (Re-rating and National Insurance Funds Payments) Order 2015.
Relevant document: 21st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
Social Security (Contributions) (Limits and Thresholds) (Amendment) Regulations 2015
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Lord Newby
That the Grand Committee do consider the Social Security (Contributions) (Limits and Thresholds) (Amendment) Regulations 2015.
Relevant document: 21st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments