Ministerial and other Maternity Allowances Bill

Lord Naseby Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 22nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree wholeheartedly with the noble Baroness who has just spoken on the way she discussed the word “woman”, and I was pleased that my noble friend moved her amendment. I would go so far as to say that, if an amendment is tabled in Committee, I will support it. I am a very loyal Member—indeed, at least one of the noble Baronesses sitting on the Opposition Benches teases me about that. But on this issue I am quite clear: we should use the word “woman”.

I have had the privilege of being married for 60 years, and my wife and I have three children. My wife trained across the road at St Thomas’. The first child came quickly, but the second and third were planned, because my wife and I agreed when we were engaged that both of us would like to work in life and that she should work on whatever form of medicine she chose. She chose to be a full-time general practitioner for most of her working life and certainly when she had the third child. By then she was the senior partner and, as I recall, took only three or four weeks off after having that baby. Of course, in those days there was no formal maternity allowance—it was a matter of individual choice. The decision we made was that we would use our resources to appoint a nanny, child help and childcare, and all muck in. Times have changed, and that is good.

My problem is to try to set aside the individual and look at the strategy being followed. Here we have one of the key offices of state. Every key office of state is probably very demanding and very important in its impact on our economy and our country. It happens to be particularly important at this stage because of Brexit and the problems we all know about in its implementation—particularly Northern Ireland and the union. Somebody is leaving a key office for six months. I do not know what plans the Government have made on two aspects, but I imagine that the Prime Minister believes that the present incumbent is absolutely the key person to do the job. They are not a second choice, but for those six months there will have to be a second choice. That is a pretty tough call on whoever that person may be because, under the Bill as drafted, they know they are out in six months.

But it goes deeper than that, does it not? The civil servants, who are key to implementing law, are put in a difficult position because it is a challenge to their management. I wonder what thought has been given to that. This brings us back to one of the core criticisms of the Bill: that it did not encompass a whole breadth of issues raised in the Commons. Therefore, it is a bad stretch, in my view, to have emergency legislation caused by the situation of one person. Are we really saying that, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer turns out to be a woman who has a child due somewhere around Budget time, the woman can decide to take six months’ leave? In terms of the interests of the country, I would submit that that is a bit of a challenge. It is a bit of a conundrum, and I have some reservations about the way we are producing this emergency Bill when we have not, in my judgment, thought it all through.

I reflected a little further. I have the privilege to be a trustee of the pension fund. We work very hard to try to help pensioners of that fund who get into all sorts of “scrapes”. But we do not actually change the provisions of a Bill: we find methods to help them or advise them, whatever it may be. Basically, we have a problem here.

I asked my daughter, who is self-employed, “What is the maternity provision for you, my darling?” The answer came back: “None”. Then I did a bit of research. We are talking about 1.63 million women in our country who get nothing. Once again, I think somebody should have done a little bit of pre-thinking.

I have thought very long and hard about the Bill, and I am not going to oppose it. Nevertheless, two things come to mind: first, the ones I have raised on the managerial side, if you like, of somebody taking maternity leave from a very senior position in government, and, secondly, the word “woman”. For me, as a man, it is crystal clear that the word “woman” should remain. The Government will have to wrestle with the management dimensions, but if there is an amendment down on “woman” or “women” I—for once—will actually support it.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Naseby Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 28th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con) [V]]

My Lords, this is one of the key Bills of this Parliament. Thankfully it is in the hands of a team who we all respect, as does the country at large. I too welcome our two new colleagues, my noble friend Lord Hammond and the noble Baroness, Lady Shafik, and look forward to hearing them again.

Just by way of background, I have chaired two quoted companies and have chaired the Tunbridge Wells Equitable Friendly Society. I am a firm believer in mutuality and successfully piloted through the Private Member’s Bill that became the Mutuals’ Deferred Shares Act 2015. I also spent 12 years on the Public Accounts Committee in the other place.

Other speakers have covered a huge spectrum this afternoon and this evening, so I just want to mention, in the macro, three issues as regards the City. First, coming from the Public Accounts Committee, I think that scrutiny of regulation is absolutely vital. I have listened to a number of noble colleagues—my noble friend Lord Blackwell, in particular— and I agree on the need for a Joint Committee. I will not say any more than that; it seems to me absolutely fundamental.

Secondly, economic crime is an increasing market—if I may use that phrase. Thankfully, we have the City of London Corporation which has its own police authority; it is the national lead for economic crime and supports calls by industry bodies for increased funding to fight economic crime. Over a third of all crime is economic or cyber, but only 2% of total police resources are allocated to policing this type of crime. Frankly, we need to look at this very closely and find some increased resources.

Finally, on the macro side, I was talking to the remembrancer in the City, and the City of London Corporation is an enthusiastic supporter of the greening of the economy. The City of London Corporation supports work by the Green Finance Institute including, for example, the plan to launch the UK’s first sovereign green bond; work to identify and remove investment barriers to wide-scale decarbonisation of the UK’s heating; and work on the development of a market for financing net-zero carbon properties. As I said, colleagues have mentioned a great many other things about the City.

I also want to look at one macro challenge that I have known about for years: payday loans. Every family in the UK needs access to credit. Historically, the average working-class family has used what is called home-collected credit. This is not new; it has been used across the UK for well over a century. I first came across it in the 1960s, when I was a councillor and alderman in the London Borough of Islington, and more recently in Northampton. A customer takes out a small short-term cash loan and the repayments are collected by the company agents who visit the customer at home each week. One single charge for the credit covers everything: the interest, the home-collection service, the cost of bad debts, company overheads and so on. There are no additional or penalty charges. If a customer cannot pay, the term of the loan is simply extended and the customer does not pay a penny more. It is 100% flexible and forgiving. However, home-collected credit is now under threat and, if that threat materialises, society will lose something very important.

If that happens, it will simply be because we have regulatory indifference. The authorities—the FCA and the FOS—are currently flouting their statutory remit to decide each case on its own merits. Historically, the regulator had a sound understanding of the product and how it worked in harmony with the budgeting cycles of these customers. Customers who use this methodology borrow only three or four times a year to cover the usual family expenses—at Christmas, Easter, back-to-school times or whatever. Now, the FCA sees this annual pattern as problematic—as re-lending, rather than sensible budgeting. In doing so, it fails to differentiate between payday lending, which is extremely harmful, and home-collected credit, which is not. The FCA and Financial Ombudsman Service are targeting the exact same re-lending patterns on affordability grounds, and their judgments act as a magnet to dubious claims management companies, which are just piling in.

When we reach Committee, we need to look very long and hard at this area. We, as legislators, need to hold the FCA and the FOS to account, because millions of working-class consumers up and down the country will be badly affected if this system of home-collected credit, which has been running for decades—for over a century, as I said earlier—comes to an end. It works well and it must be protected. Somehow or other, we have to sort out the terrible payday lending organisations.

We have had a long day and I know that we are looking forward to hearing the Minister wind up.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Lord Naseby Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, this is indeed a historic day and a historic debate. Over a year ago, on 23 October, I wrote to the Prime Minister thanking him for his tenacity over the withdrawal Bill. I do so again today, because he has shown leadership, vision, statecraft and sheer willpower. He and his team have produced the Bill before the House today and shored up a relationship which will stand the test of time, based on zero tariffs and zero quotas.

So, an opportunity beckons for the United Kingdom. Just look at Asia with its new 15-country grouping, covering 30% of global GDP. Africa is about to launch its free trade area in 2021, covering 1.2 billion people. South America’s covers 300 million. As the fifth-largest economy in the world, what do we do to make the most of that? We need leadership in every embassy and high commission, with someone appointed, with the status of at least the second most important person there, to seek out future agreements.

I will mention a couple of countries. I have known Chile for 15 years or more. It is the most successful country at negotiating deals around the world, now covering 90% of global GDP. Sri Lanka, which I love, and where I have lived and worked, is a fintech-oriented society of talented young people and another opportunity. Both those countries are very pro-British.

The City is not a problem. We were told that there would be a tremendous amount of unemployment there. There is not; it has not happened. Its wholesale finance is much better prepared than any other part of the UK. It is historically very rare for anywhere which has as dominant a role as our City does to lose it. Of course, it needs some help in the forthcoming months. I look to my noble friend on the Front Bench, who has done such a good job. Will that help be forthcoming as they negotiate the details with Europe? I am sure it will be. Perhaps there is a role for a Minister of State to be appointed temporarily to look after the City for 18 months.

To conclude, there are massive opportunities around the world. The key, though, is leadership and an understanding of the role of marketing. I promise to do my best to help our country and my Government on this journey to becoming a really successful country. As the noble Lord, Lord Frost said, the Brexit trade deal is a “moment of national renewal”.

Customs Safety, Security and Economic Operators Registration and Identification (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I particularly welcome this SI, which is almost certainly one of the most important instruments for our country as Brexit looms. It comes in the time and climate of lockdown, which is extremely difficult for anybody doing business. Perhaps I may highlight what my noble friend Lady McIntosh said about Northern Ireland. I was a junior Minister there in 1979 for a couple of years. I will not repeat her questions because they are absolutely crucial and do not need repeating.

Given our debate on the Internal Market Bill about affirmative resolutions, I am pleased that there is an affirmative resolution in this key area. Paragraph 2.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum clearly explains the purpose and paragraph 2.4 explains that the Union customs code requires pre-arrival and pre-departure collection and the risk assessment of data on goods by customs authorities.

I come to this debate from the point of view of having been the Member of Parliament for Northampton South; there is a large number of hauliers in Northampton because it is a transport hub. They are not happy folk at the moment but they are experienced hauliers. They and I realise that there is to be a temporary waiver for ENS declarations until 30 June, which, it is stated, will particularly help those hauliers who transport goods only in the EU. Is there an estimate of how many hauliers are in that category? It seems likely that they represent the vast majority. Nevertheless, the procedure offered in the six-month waiver is substantial and welcome.

Picking up on what my noble friend Lady Wheatcroft said, I wonder whether it would be wise to do a review after at least three months. Six months will go by very quickly in what will still be difficult period for our country. Can the Minister reflect on that? These poor hauliers will move from a system of 24 hours for the preloading of containers and four hours pre-arrival to just two hours. Is this workable? Has it been tested yet? I imagine the Minister will know the answer to that. If it has not been tested, when will it be? All too often we have seen across many areas of public sector operations that the IT is not robust enough to handle challenges. Has the IT been rigorously tested? Is it robust enough to cope with a huge number of hauliers registering on the two-hour basis for both short-term material and containers? I can see a situation in which the system crashes from too many people trying to log on at the same time. This is absolutely vital.

Consultation is so important. Paragraph 10.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to HMRC sponsoring the Joint Customs Consultative Committee. That is good, but how many times has it actually met? Were hauliers always represented and what came of its recent meetings? Does contact now rest only with the “virtual reading room” referred to in that paragraph?

I have talked to some of my former constituents in Northampton. They remain deeply concerned. It is not just the Northern Ireland dimension; no one knows whether there is going to be a deal. I am not accusing the Minister of being responsible for that, but they are different scenarios. Against that background, we are asking an important part of our trade, industry and welfare somehow to operate almost instantly, albeit we have this six-month waiver. As the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee states in paragraph 8 of its 32nd report,

“HMRC expects significant one-off costs”.

Is the Minister in a position to indicate the scale of those costs and what they are likely to be? Are they software or staff costs, for example?

I can see that my noble friend the Minister faces a huge challenge. I thank him for what he has done so far and what he will need to do in the weeks ahead. Against the background of what my two colleagues and I have raised, I look forward to his response with great interest.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Lord Naseby Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 27th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the Bill and the number remaining at 650. It is a sad reflection that the key element of our democracy was allowed to fester in the to-do tray during the Cameron coalition Government, and then the May Government. It is a terrible disgrace that today’s constituencies are based on data from 2000—20 years ago—since when there have been huge changes in population movement and net migration.

I particularly welcome the key element of the Bill on hearings. I remember going to hearings about boundary changes in Northampton, which were always taken at the first stage; it always seemed wrong to me and my advisers that it was not the second stage. I therefore welcome the part of the Bill which proposes that it will be the second stage, not least because that provides better provision for change, particularly in relation to local authority boundaries. I challenge the length of time that is being suggested, with boundary reviews being put up from every five years to eight. Whether we like it or not, we have a party-political electoral system. On my calculation, this means that the Government elected in 2025 will have an effective advantage of an extra three years.

I will look for a second or two at the case history of my own former seat, Northampton South. It first came into existence, as a seat, following the boundary reviews of the early 1970s. As colleagues may remember, the first election there was in February 1974. On the first count my majority was minus 203 but a few of the bundles appeared to have got mixed up in the wrong area and, on appeal, it ended up as 179. At an election that October, I got 141, at another one in 1979—a gap of six to seven years—it was 3,634. Then there was a boundary review and, all of a sudden, I had a huge constituency and I got a majority of over 15,000. That went on until 1992 and then, bang, I got another review in 1997 and lost by 744. There is something not right about going to eight years. If noble Lords want any personal encouragement, a Private Member’s Bill to give each Member of the upper House a vote where they live has had a Second Reading in your Lordships’ House. Most noble Lords are active where they live.

Finance Bill

Lord Naseby Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 17th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con) [V]]

I sincerely congratulate the Chancellor. The Bill before us is sensible, with sensible policies. However, the key point which I remember from my economics lectures is the multiplier effect. The more people spend, it affects other levels of society, and that is the whole basis of the key to recovery.

Our economy in May was forecast to hit 5.5% but it hit 1.8%. However, there was an interesting test market there, which was the recommendation on 13 May that employees in manufacturing and construction should return to work, which they did. Sadly, however, someone in government decided that they should not take public transport and should drive to work. That was an error. Will it be better in June? Certainly, lockdown is being reduced, particularly for the services category. However, households remain very fearful, and the social distancing rules are likely to limit consumption of services until the population is vaccinated. Yes, some pent-up demand was unleashed in retail in June, but the footfall numbers are still way down on last year.

In my judgment, all employees should now return to work, in both the public and private sectors, and should not stay at home. All civil servants should stop working from home, and all Parliament personnel should stop working from home and come in to Parliament. The same applies to the private sector. We must, for their sake, reassure people that they will be safe, and they need to use public transport. Indeed, we need also to recognise that some of the services that are supposed to have reopened have not reopened. Around 50% of pubs and restaurants that in theory were going to be open are not yet open, and do not show much sign of doing so.

Frankly, social distancing going from two metres to one metre-plus is not progress. You either go from two metres to one metre or do not bother at all. That is the only way we will get back to normal life.

I say to my right honourable friend the Chancellor that the twin challenges are that, as unemployment rises just as government support fades, he will need to watch it very carefully, and he may yet need billions more. If that happens, I say to him: for heaven’s sake, make sure that you do it.

Census (England and Wales) Order 2020

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, I pay particular tribute to all those involved with this census. I am pleased that veterans are to be included in a new question, and I hope that that is clarified to include national service. But the biggest change is the move to online. Perhaps 85% of the nation is online, but we have to remember that millions of people have come to this country from foreign countries in the last 10 years, many of whom, particularly in the older generation, do not speak English, or English is not their main language. Great care will need to be taken to ensure that there is a paper back-up for those who are not able to cope with the online form.

Secondly, in the context of our experience of the virus, I am particularly interested in the problems for communal establishments, especially our prisons and our care homes. If the department of health appears to have overlooked care homes at the early stages of this crisis, heaven alone knows what will happen with them in normal circumstances. I know a little about the prison world. Bedford prison is heavily overcrowded. The census cannot be done online in a place like that.

On ethnicity, I lived in India for a couple of years of my life and know the Sikh community well. I do not understand why they are not included under ethnicity; certainly their cause is far greater than that of the Roma, who are now included in that category.

Finally, I make a plea: this should not be the last census. We should listen to the queries raised by the noble Lords, Lord Mann and Lord Young.

Budget Statement

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Wednesday 18th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, I appreciate the opportunity to say a few words in the gap, arising out of phone calls that I made last night.

First, a number of noble Lords will know that I was Member of Parliament for Northampton. The answer that I got from those phone calls was, “Michael, wake up. Demand has collapsed. Cash flow is at a critical point. We recognise what the Chancellor has done on business rates, and well done him, but there are two other problems—VAT and national insurance—and we need some help in that area.”

Secondly, we are not good at communicating to people in business what the Government are doing. I had the privilege of doing all the advertising for the COI on the three-day week. Every day there was different copy in every single national paper and all the trade papers. I say to my noble friend on the Front Bench that we need to communicate to reassure all people in commerce and trade about what is happening. That includes the trade associations, along with the chambers of commerce and chambers of trade and so on.

My third point, on which I will finish, is that I have the privilege of being president of Northamptonshire County Cricket Club. The sporting world is our next problem. You have only to look at what is happening in football, with people playing and nobody watching. Rugby is in the same situation. All those clubs are in potential financial difficulty. Cricket is due to start next month and after that will come tennis. I say to my noble friend on the Front Bench: please get the Minister of Sport involved now so that some anticipatory work can be done to ensure that those great sports, which our whole nation likes to watch, can start on time and not be in financial crisis.

Extension of Franchise (House of Lords) Bill [HL]

Lord Naseby Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 19th July 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Naseby]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to a number of noble Lords who have paved the way for me, if I may put it that way—in particular and most recently my noble friend Lord Dubs, whom I have known from the other place for a considerable number of years; the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, and the work he is doing in relation to hereditary Peers; and of course the noble Lord, Lord Steel, who has played a pioneering role in the broader field of reform of the Lords.

Noble Lords will recall that I had the privilege of being the 58th Chairman of Ways and Means in another place. The first appointment was made originally because of the restoration of the monarchy. It was felt by Parliament that your Lordships’ House at the time had a particularly strong influence—many at that time felt that it was an unhealthy influence—on the other place. Of course, the whole matter is described in the 25th edition of Erskine May, which has just been published. What good work was done by David Natzler, whom a number of noble Lords will know personally. If you flick through that book—although it is not the sort of book you flick through, because it is quite a thick volume—you will find the key part on page 930, paragraph 37.6. The title is, “Basis of modern practice with respect to privilege”. The paragraph is not very long and states:

“That all aids and supplies, and aids to his Majesty in Parliament, are the sole gift of the Commons; and all bills for the granting of any such aids and supplies ought to begin with the Commons; and that it is the undoubted and sole right of the Commons to direct, limit, and appoint in such bills the ends, purposes, considerations, conditions, limitations, and qualifications of such grants, which ought not to be changed or altered by the House of Lords”.


The central theme of my submission this morning is that I am here as an appointed Peer, but that there are portions of policies affecting our former constituencies, if we were previously elected, and ordinary people on the electoral role. We are precluded here from interfering in certain policies.

I took a close look at and pay tribute to Conventions of the UK Parliament by the Joint Committee on Conventions, which was produced in 2005-06. A number of your Lordships served on that committee. In paragraph 99, it concluded:

“In the House of Lords:


A manifesto Bill is accorded a Second Reading;


A manifesto Bill is not subject to ‘wrecking amendments’ which change the Government’s manifesto intention as proposed in the Bill; and


A manifesto Bill is passed and sent (or returned) to the House of Commons, so that they have the opportunity, in reasonable time, to consider the Bill or any amendments the Lords may wish to propose”.


That is quite clear. It re-emphasises the fact that your Lordships as individuals are restricted, and that we cannot take part in a proportion of the work that the other place is doing.

I wondered what further evidence I could find that would be helpful to your Lordships. These days we spend a great deal of our time talking about what the young think. None of us here is young, but I am quite sure that in our normal lives, we talk to young people where we live. I had the opportunity to be approached by a student at Bedford School, where I went as a boy; and where, incidentally, Erskine May was also a pupil. He approached me and asked whether he could shadow me for a period of time. So I said, “Have a look at this Bill. You’re taking A-level politics, are you not?”. He said yes, so I said, “Have a look at the Bill, do your own research and give me some comments. I don’t mind what you come up with; I’m not worried one way or the other. My views are clear, but you can criticise, et cetera”.

I will now give a few quotes from what he wrote to me, because they are quite interesting—quite forthright, as most young people are. He writes:

“I was appalled to hear members of one of our two great Houses do not get a vote on who the future government should be, which will, of course, have as much of an impact on their lives as it will on everyone else’s.


I find it is an embarrassing stain on the democracy we boast of in this country. As one of the world’s leading powers, it is nothing short of shocking that our second chamber is the only one in the world that does not allow its members to vote at general elections. This means out of nearly 200 countries with second chambers, ours is the only one that doesn’t. The only way to describe that is shameful!


The only two arguments used to defend the law in the 2013 debate”—


my noble friend Lord Dubs’s debate—

“were; that this is the way it is done so leave it that way and the other was the scepticism around reform.

The first argument is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Archaic laws can have no place in our society, or politics, just because it’s the way we have always done certain procedures doesn’t mean it is right and should carry on … However, when the original resolution was made there was a need to limit the powers of Peers … So, if members of this House do not have a say on financial bills here or in general elections, where do they have their say on how they want their economy to be run? As you are all aware, you don’t! This is a complete failure, especially as it is a basic right within our nation for the majority to be given the right to vote … If members of the House believe they should not be granted the vote, then they can make a conscious decision not to vote. However, their unwillingness to vote should not then stop others in an attempt to further participate in the political system they play a key role in. As a 17 year old who is politically active and waits with eagerness to exercise whatever democratic rights and privileges we enjoy in our country I can only imagine the pain and anger it must cause that simply because of one’s job they are then unable to vote, despite the fact that they have enjoyed voting and campaigning for, or even serving, previous governments. Considering all of the facts that this is an outdated law, and was made against predecessors long before those who now sit I feel very strongly and passionately that this bill must be passed”.


That is the view of a 17 year-old reading A-level politics.

Then I asked myself, what is the position today on royalty? I asked the Library for a little help on that. Before I got any evidence from the Library, I was sure that they were not allowed to vote. What did I find? On investigation, I found that while the Head of State—the Queen—has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters and is unable to vote or to stand for election, that is only a convention. There is no law that prevents Her Majesty or the Royal Dukes voting. Indeed, after the Act we passed in 1999 the Royal Dukes were allowed to vote. The advice from the Palace is that those who are close to Her Majesty—I think “inner circle” is the phrase that is used—are asked not to take part, and that is very understandable. But the rest of the royals can all vote. It is entirely up to them whether they do so—nobody is forcing them to vote—and I think that that is of considerable relevance.

A number of friends in the House will know that I started my life in the other place with a majority of 179. On the first count, it was around minus 200, so we had a recount. On the second count, I think I won by three or four. On the third count, I won by 179. I shall not go into the detail of how or why that might have happened—that is not relevant this morning—but it is interesting. If we look at more recent elections, how many of us remember Harmar Nicholls in Peterborough in 1966? After seven recounts, he was elected by three votes. Brighton Kemptown was won by seven votes in 1964. Winchester was won by two votes in the 1997 election. Even more recently, in 2017 North East Fife was won by two votes. I put it to your Lordships that it is a weak argument to say, “What difference do one or two votes make to the situation on the ground?”. What would have happened in Fife if three of our colleagues from across the border could have voted and might have chosen to vote for the candidate who came second? That is worth thinking about very seriously.

My view is that one vote counts, so I put it to your Lordships that the time has come to recognise that we take part in our local communities. I suggest to noble Lords that every one of us sitting here this morning is active in our own community. We take part. We take a responsibility—yet we are precluded from voting in the key vote that any person in our society can have. This is an important Bill that should move forward. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to noble Lords who have taken the time to take part in this morning’s debate. I have led marches along the thoroughfare in front of this House and know that 17 year-olds now feel as strongly as they did then. I promise my noble friend Lord Norton that, if he wants a demonstration outside from the young people of this country in support of this Bill, I will take up that challenge. He may be surprised, but there would certainly be far more than the two people who responded to his blog—that may say something about the blog, but that is by the by.

The noble Lord, Lord Rennard—I could almost have written his speech—is right. The Liberal Party is consistent; it wants overall reform of the House of Lords and I accept that position.

I was slightly disappointed in my friend the noble Lord, Lord Desai; he and I agree on so many things, and he looks very comfortable sitting there at the back. Yes, it is a privilege, but that does not undermine the rights of the individual.

I thank my almost colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Dubs. He and I will work together on this.

I had not heard my noble friend Lord Sherbourne, although he sits next to me almost every day. He made a very powerful speech.

I am particularly grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown. The House should listen to him; he has far more experience than most of us.

There have been many quotations about why we should not have the vote, but my noble friend reminded me of a Front Bench quote. I think it is his view—it is certainly mine—that the Parliament Acts make a complete nonsense of the pre-1911 cases. I am not sure that the Government understand that, or maybe they do and have just ignored it.

I thank my noble friend on the Front Bench, who was generous in his comments about me. I remember 1966, when I fought the seat in Islington North and lost handsomely. I was keen to get to Parliament and when local elections came up in 1968, I was asked to lead in Islington. I was told that we had not got a single seat and had not had one for many years. I got things organised and arranged marches—my noble friend Lord Norton should take note. The Government of the day were very unpopular and by sheer dedication on the part of many people, we won 57 out of 60 seats. Issues of this nature are really important to me and to many others. Democracy is about one man, one vote.

I remind the House that this is not my first Private Member’s Bill. I had another, the Mutuals’ Deferred Shares Act 2015, which took more than one Session. There is not a great deal of time left now, but this will not go away. There is nothing wrong with incremental legislation. There is nothing wrong with focusing on a single issue in life; you are more likely to succeed. I beg to move.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Affordable Housing

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I agree. Until quite recently the policy on the disposal of government surplus land was that the best price should be secured—in the interests of the taxpayer, who is the ultimate owner. That money went into a central coffer and was then disposed of according to the Government’s priorities. There was a presumption against short-circuiting that process and disposing of land at less than best value. Two years ago that policy was amended, following a meeting of the housing implementation task force and, as I said in my reply, it is now possible to take the wider social costs and benefits and the public interest into account and to make the housing land available directly. A recent example of that was a site that was made available to the Government, initially to the homes agency—the Housing Corporation as was—and then passed on to Wolverhampton Council for £1. Now, 450 homes are being built on that land. That is a good example of what the noble Lord has asked for, and I hope that we see much more of it.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is it not extraordinary that the Labour Party should remind us of the poor position of social housing? After all, the Blair Government had a very low quantum of building, the Brown Government followed suit and, I am sorry to say, the Cameron Government acted similarly. Against that background, is the example that my noble friend gave today not encouraging: that for a particular need the local authority is getting land at below cost price? Should that be the policy—for social housing only, where there is currently demand in some of our great cities?

[Lord Young of Cookham]

I agree with the thrust of my noble friend’s question. The other thing that we have done is that when surplus land becomes available from any government department it is put on a website, and the homes agency has the opportunity to acquire it before anybody else. It can put in a bid and do what he and the noble Lord suggested: to make the land available for housing. We are seeing more such transactions where the land is made available to local authorities or housing associations, and the Government are committed to providing 160,000 homes, I think, by March next year on land that was in government ownership in 2015.