Brexit

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Saturday 19th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend, who has just given the House a few home truths. I am firmly in the camp of getting on with it; I am a practical man. I can speak in any depth about only Northampton, but the vast majority of people who approach me there tell me, “Get on with it”. Industry and commerce in Northampton say, “Get on with it”. In particular, the exporters—we have some very good ones there—say, “Get on with it”. So I congratulate the Prime Minister. He has shown vision, statecraft and leadership. Above all, he has shown sheer willpower, because none of this can have been very easy. I say to my former friends in the other place: this is not a time to scupper this deal. This is a time to bite on the bullet and look to the future.

This is a better deal than Mrs May procured. The key is that it allows the UK, as of right, to enter into new trade deals and to negotiate them on our own terms. Once the transition is over, we can set out our own rules, taxes and regulations. We can have free trade agreements, regardless of what the EU wishes. I hope we will have a good trade deal with the EU as well, but I worked overseas for a number of years and there are huge opportunities out there. In a minute, I shall give one example. I do not want to parade this too much, but in 1967 I wrote a pamphlet with my noble friend Lord Vinson and another gentleman. At that time, we were all in exporting. I have one copy left and I shall present it to the Prime Minister when I next see him. It is called Helping the Exporter and had eight key recommendations. I shall not run through them all; there is certainly not time to do so. The headline recommendations were: a close look at the support that the diplomatic corps gives to exporters; a nominated board of trade; business education in exporting; a revamped Queen’s award; and—in my judgment—why not a new royal yacht and fiscal incentives?

The second example is perhaps much more current. I declare an interest as president of the All-Party Group on Sri Lanka. Five weeks ago, I was asked to address the equivalent of the CBI in Sri Lanka—the Organisation of Professional Associations of Sri Lanka—which covers 51 professions and has over 50,000 members. I talked about the future for our country and trade between the two countries. As far as I could see, there were over 250 people there and not a single person against the idea. I got hundreds of business cards and, as a result, a trade and investment conference was held last week, here in the City of London. I thank the government Minister who attended; that was good.

On top of that, the World Bank has just announced that it sees Sri Lanka as a potential emerging trading partner. It is a maritime hub on one of the world’s busiest trade routes, with three world-class ports: Colombo, Hambantota and Trincomalee. Port City Colombo gives the opportunity for investment, and we can be the trigger, as we were with the Victoria Dam in the early 1970s. Above all, when you look at where Sri Lanka is positioned on those trade routes, it is unique in how it can service the entire market of Asia. It already has free trade agreements with India, Pakistan and Singapore. There are no fewer than 3.5 billion people in that part of the world, and here is the hub. Which is the country that has the closest relationship with it? It is this country. There is a massive opportunity here, and I say to my noble friend on the Front Bench: for heaven’s sake, let us take it up.

I use that as one case history, but other colleagues here have similar relationships elsewhere in the world. Let us take them up and build for the future.

Brexit

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, we are all well aware that, for the last three years, the country and Parliament have wrestled with the problem of Brexit. I therefore pay tribute to the current Government for the way in which the Prime Minister, the Ministers in charge of Brexit details and, in particular, the hundreds if not thousands of civil servants are wrestling with producing a workable basis on which we can move forward with either a deal or no deal.

The noble Lord, Lord Monks, asked whether there had been any progress over the last six months. I can only vouch for one particular industry in Northampton, which is a distribution base. I am told by the hauliers in Northampton that, yes, they are confident that they can continue as they do today under any changes that are made, and that their relationship with Calais and other ports is a good one now and will continue as such. So I say a big thank you to them, and to all the people who are involved at the moment.

I do not say thank you, frankly, to those MPs such as Messrs Grieve, Letwin and Burt. Alistair Burt is my MP and was the Tory side of the Benn Bill. I do not think that they did play a role—or at least not a role that I have ever seen in Parliament before. I do not say thank you to the two former Prime Ministers. I hardly think that John Major was a great success over Maastricht, or indeed in the 1997 election, if I remember rightly—not least as I lost my seat, along with over 100 others. I do not say thank you to Mr Cameron, whose idea it was to have a referendum in the first place and who saddled us with this extraordinary business of a fixed-term Parliament.

I am by profession an economist—a practical economist who spent 20 years in business working in the UK, India and Sri Lanka. Anybody who is a businessman looks at the general situation that they face in the markets that they are in. I was interested to note today two headlines in the Telegraph about the world economy. The first is that Swedish economy is the canary in the coal mine, and it has just keeled over: there has been a violent drop in manufacturing output right down to 2008 levels. Secondly, the risk of global recession grows as factory woes go from bad to worse, particularly in the US, the EU, France and Germany. So the background is not good.

I have mentioned the haulage industry in this country. Add to that the pharmaceutical industry, which I know well. Every company that I ever worked for in that industry had reserves and action plans for reacting to shortages, whatever the difficulties might be, and I am totally confident that every company in that industry is ready and able, whatever the result may be. There will be some potential difficulties. I drove back from Devon and noticed all the overhead signs telling every lorry driver and every other driver that, if they are not yet aware that things may change on 1 November, they should take action. So well done the Government on that front.

I have just come back from Sri Lanka, where there is the port city of Colombo. It is open for business, similar to the Victoria Dam, and there is a conference in the City of London. I am also involved in Chile. I declare an interest as chairman of the Cofradía del Vino Chileno. That country, on its own basis, has now contracted 26 individual deals with other blocs and countries covering 86% of global GDP. If Chile can do that on its own, I am totally confident that we can do it on our own.

Of course there will be challenges, but what on earth is the Bank of England there for if not to react to challenges? What is the Treasury there for if not to provide some incentives and help in the interim? The idea is being put about that MPs want to see the list of industries and companies that may be in difficulty. That is entirely wrong. It would undermine that particular company, its employers, its employees, its pensioners and its supplier relationships. That information must remain confidential.

As colleagues will know, I spent a few years as Chairman of Ways and Means and as Deputy Speaker; I took through the Maastricht Bill. I had a little look at the proceedings of the Benn Bill, and by any yardstick they are unusual. Standing Order 24 is not something that you normally see being used for a Private Member’s Bill. That does not necessarily mean that it is wrong, but it is certainly quite extraordinary, particularly when a Private Member’s Bill has massive consequences for the nation and our economy—and it never seemed to follow any of the normal parliamentary procedures. Maybe that is right and maybe that is what should happen, but I say this: a law has now been brought in over Prorogation, and if I were in government I would have a long, hard look in relation to the letter. I see that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, is getting a bit worried that there is something amiss with that particular element of the Bill. I suggest that if I were sitting there, I would have a long, hard look at it as well.

Brexit

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to listen to the noble Lord who just spoke, not least because he gave us an insight into Europe, which I do not possess. For nearly 25 years of my life I sat in a marginal seat, and managed to win it for most of those 25 years. When you sit in a marginal seat, you have to listen to the public and to the floating vote, not just the hard core of your constituents.

I want particularly to thank the two Front-Benchers: the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter—she has disappeared, but I gather she will be back in a matter of minutes—and the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, who is temporarily absent. It is not just they who have borne the burden; the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition have, too. They were in from day one after the extraordinary referendum result—seats in the north and the south of England voted to leave the EU—so they have had an important role in communicating what your Lordships’ House feels to their Members of Parliament in the other place. They have been given quite a burden, and I thank them for bearing it.

After the referendum, we had the general election. In that election, both parties’ manifestos were quite clear: the referendum result should be implemented. The issue before us this evening is the Prime Minister’s deal, not what is in the political declaration—we know there is some flexibility there—so any talk about a Canada deal or a Norway deal is pretty irrelevant this evening. It does not matter that I voted to remain. That is totally irrelevant. It is irrelevant to every Conservative Member of Parliament, every Labour Member of Parliament, and all the other Members of Parliament in the other place. It is no good people who were elected to represent the people then deciding to abstain. Not a single Member of Parliament will get much thanks from their constituents for abstaining—they are sent there to make a decision one way or another. It is no good a couple of Members of Parliament, in particular, Mr Letwin and Ms Cooper, trying to take the high ground from the Government of the day—what arrogance. I do not think that is acceptable.

I remind myself that all the MPs in the two big parties signed up to the referendum and their manifestos. Maybe the EU is very difficult to work with. My noble friend who spoke earlier is right to point out that we have never really been totally committed to it, other than during the period of just two Prime Ministers. Maybe Mrs May’s agreement on offer is not perfect—I do not think any of us believes it is perfect—but it is all that is on offer today. It is there, it is available and—this is the key point—it creates Brexit. We go back to that referendum and what the people of this country wanted.

I spent this morning in Northampton, where it happened to be press day for photographs of the cricket first 11. They will succeed only if they work as a team. For me, the most important part of this morning’s visit, apart from encouraging the troops, was to listen to our sponsors, large and small. I will now tell your Lordships what three of them said to me, while almost pinning me against the wall: “Michael, speak up for us, please. We need a decision—a deal or no deal. No more indecision. No more putting it off for another day”. I interpret that as no more kicking the can down the road, and no extension of Article 50. “But”, they said, and to me this is the key point, “Unless we get a decision, there will be no further investment”. I come from industry and commerce, and I know that this is absolutely crucial to the future of our country.

I finish on a quote, deliberately from a Labour Prime Minister. A number of my colleagues in the House will know I have a deep interest and involvement with the Indian subcontinent. Over the weekend, I looked up what Clement Attlee said at a difficult time, to create independence for India. A good number of MPs said that it could not be done then, because it was all too difficult and would cause absolute chaos; they said they would not support him. And he said, in winding up his long speech:

“The British Commonwealth of Nations survives today, and has survived through the strain of two great wars, precisely because it is not static, but is constantly developing, and because it has throughout the years steadily changed … My hope is that we may forget past differences and remember only how often and in how many fields of human endeavour Britons … have worked together in harmony.—[Official Report, Commons, 10/7/1947; col. 2462.]


It was a great speech. Churchill was ill at the time, so Macmillan had to respond. He agreed with what Clement had said.

There is a lesson here for all of us. We are not really leaving Europe and our millions of friends there—my second name is Wolfgang, and I feel I am part of the EU. We are Europeans in that sense and will remain so, but we are also an energetic and creative nation, particularly in trade, commerce and industry. We want some freedom to develop that.

I ask every Conservative Member now to support the May agreement—perhaps some will have to bite their tongue. I suggest to those on the Front Bench opposite that every Labour MP should think hard about their constituencies and the people they represent. They should bite their tongues as well. We must remember that, during Harold Wilson’s referendum—while I sat in that marginal seat with a majority of 179—I stood shoulder to shoulder with my next door neighbour, a Labour Member of Parliament, because we both believed in the future of our country. We put that ahead of anything else.

I return to those on both Front Benches—and I am delighted to see the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, now in her place. I suggest they need to liaise and work more closely together than it appears has been happening on the surface. After tonight’s debate, I hope that those on both Front Benches will communicate to those in the other place and their followers that, although it is not a perfect withdrawal agreement, it opens the crucial gate of Brexit. If we achieve that and allow it to happen, confidence, that very tender plant, will return to our people, our commerce and our industry.

Brexit: No-deal Preparations

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We do not believe that our deal is a bad deal. We think it is a good deal, and we continue to hope that the House of Commons will agree to it.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that the key element is the preparation by British industry and commerce? Is he further aware that I had the privilege of representing part of the East Midlands? I have spoken to industrialists, hauliers and other traders in that part of the UK. All of them many months ago realised there was a prospect of no deal. They have not waited for Her Majesty’s Government. They made those preparations, and any of us who have ever worked in industry or commerce would have done exactly the same. What they are waiting for is a decision, and they urge Her Majesty’s Government and Her Majesty’s Opposition somehow to make a decision so that they can get on and develop industry and commerce in this great country of ours.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Tuesday 7th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord. I am sorry that I am causing him such frustration this afternoon.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

The House, not him.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

Normally in this House we do not speak from a sedentary position.

[Lord Naseby]

My sedentary comment was that the noble Lord is annoying the House, not just an individual Member.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

I am most grateful to the noble Lord for having arrogated to himself the decision as to what the hundreds of people around this place believe.

The point I was going to raise, and ask the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, to address, is this. Of course the Prime Minister of this country has the ability to ensure that we leave the European Union without an agreement, because of the two-year time limit in Article 50, which the noble Lord has not addressed. That time limit is absolute. It will be triggered within the next few days and, sometime in 2019, it will reach its conclusion. It takes two to negotiate. Since the Prime Minister will be one of them—and the 27 and the institutions of the European Union will be the other—she has the ability to ensure that we leave without an agreement. That is the eventuality that is being dealt with in this amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

Does the noble Baroness agree with me that we should not ditch the principles of this House in order to please or pander to public opinion?

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords—

[Lord Tugendhat (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords, I shall be brief. I concur with what my noble friend has just said. We forget the effect this is having on the ordinary people outside. They knew what they were voting about when they voted at the referendum. Both individuals and businesses were fed up with the way that restrictions were put on their lives and regulations imposed. We have to recognise that fact.

It was my privilege in the other place to be Chairman of Ways and Means. There were 500 amendments to the Maastricht Bill. Many more were chucked out. The ones that were not successful were thrown out because they were out of order. They were wrecking amendments. They were defective. I find it quite extraordinary that your Lordships’ House is spending several hours on what is basically a defective amendment. There are better ways. If the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, is not capable of tabling an amendment that is in order, so be it, but he is a highly creative lawyer and there are other lawyers on the Liberal Benches who perhaps can produce an amendment that is not defective, in which case this House should rightly debate it. But as it stands, this amendment is defective in all four elements. Noble Lords should bear in mind that it is not wise for our House to vote on amendments which have huge implications and are defective. It would be much more sensible to take it back and maybe on another occasion find some means to move forward.

Ultimately, I trust our Prime Minister. I trust the right honourable David Davis to negotiate well. I trust them to do their very best for the ordinary people who have voted for it all. Frankly, what we are doing this afternoon—if we are doing anything—is undermining the public’s confidence in this House. Confidence is a very delicate flower and it affects not just us here or the public; it affects all the nation, all the businesses, all commerce, and we should not be undermining that confidence. I will certainly not be voting for the amendment.

[Lord Tugendhat]

My Lords, as the House knows, I speak as one who very much regrets the result of the referendum but who now feels that we must put it behind us and work to create the best possible relationship we can with the European Union. I feel that this amendment muddies the waters. I remind the House of the words of that very wise woman, George Eliot, who said:

“Among all forms of mistake, prophecy is the most gratuitous”.


The amendment goes down the road of prophecy. We can have no idea how the negotiations are going to unfold. Personally, I feel more optimistic about them than some people but we can have no idea how they are going to unfold or what the parliamentary situation or the situation in the European Union or anything else will be in two years’ time.

We can be certain of only one thing, and that was the point made by my noble friend Lord Howard. Generally speaking, my noble friend and I disagree on matters relating to Europe but he is quite right that the Government will stand or fall by the way in which they conduct these negotiations. Whether or not there is a deal, the House of Commons will pass judgment on the Government’s performance. It will either support the Government or reject them but either way, its will will prevail. That is a very simple matter. The amendment would put in place a complicated structure which would make it very much more difficult for the House of Commons to assert its authority. I quite understand that the purpose of the amendment is to enhance the authority of Parliament but its effect would be to diminish the capacity of the House of Commons to hold the Government to account. For that reason, I hope very much that the House will reject it.

United Kingdom: Single Market

Lord Naseby Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

My Lords, I certainly treat everyone in your Lordships’ House as adults and listen to, and respect, the views of those on all sides of the House, whatever their views might be. As I have said all along, the Government’s view on this is to continue to engage as far as possible with this House, the other place and, indeed, groups right across society, including businesses and NGOs, and listen to their views. We are doing so in a measured, calm and reasoned way. We will continue to do so and assess the options open to us.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

Let me make this point to the noble Baroness. We are doing this in a reasoned and controlled way. I repeat to her and her party that I hope they stand by the document I see in front of her—the Liberal Democrat plan for Europe—which says that,

“we should not keep rerunning the last referendum in order to get the result we wanted”.

I very much hope that that is the case and that they are not looking to overturn or block the result in this House.

[Lord Naseby]

My Lords, the Question refers to a Green Paper. Following that, it is normal to have a White Paper. Is this not just a naked delaying tactic? The British people want Her Majesty’s Government to get on with it.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

My Lords, I am absolutely determined to make sure that we deliver on the view of the 17.4 million who in June voted to leave the European Union. As I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, we are doing so in a reasoned and thoughtful way. We will come up with a plan that delivers on the national interest and ensure that we deliver a smooth and orderly Brexit.