Crime and Policing Bill

Lord Meston Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 10th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 22 and to Amendment 1. I believe that we need to look at the current rules as they stand and have a review of those rules, their effectiveness and who they fall upon. As someone who has been a youth worker for over three decades now, I have seen large parts of poorer communities, black and white, end up in very serious legal entanglements just because of what somebody else has subjectively decided was a piece of anti-social behaviour which has then led to some kind of legal sanction. These respect orders seem like a very fast track too. Many people’s behaviour is not what I would call traditional, is not recognised, and therefore these orders would become a real danger to them; there is a real danger that they have done something that was anti-social and all of a sudden, they are facing a criminal sanction.

Notwithstanding what the last speaker said—that the court would then go back and test and would have to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, above the civil court’s level of proof—it would be too late for many young people, because it would have blighted them. Many young people act out once they realise they are in trouble, because they are afraid. If we are going to put someone through that mechanism, we had better make sure that they actually have a question to answer before we posit a question that leads them to end up in some kind of legal entanglement.

Another thing to consider is that, if we change the age of criminal consent, we have to be careful that we do not expose young people to gang grooming. If a gang is able to say that, under a certain age, you will not be legally held to account for your crimes, they will use that as a rallying cry, as a recruitment cry. Currently, most children of 10 years of age understand the risk they would be taking. If we remove that, we could be exposing those children inadvertently to high levels of gang membership, because they will be told, “You cannot be prosecuted, because you cannot be held responsible”. I really think that bears looking at.

All that said, my Amendment 22 is a very small amendment, but I believe it is very important. We all know that anti-social behaviour can be an absolute blight on a whole community’s life. It is often the beginning, the prelude, to a very large and long criminal career, so if we can nip it in the bud early, that is very important. When it comes to where people live, the ripple effect from small amounts of anti-social behaviour can affect hundreds, so I welcome the Bill’s aim to tackle anti-social behaviour in the UK, especially around housing developments. I think that is a very good thing to do. However, I am concerned that the Bill in its current form fails to extend the new powers to all housing providers. Currently, the Bill provides for social housing inconsistently. This does not appear to be a purposeful exclusion; rather, the Bill uses the definition of “housing provider” from the crime and policing Act 2014, a definition that talks about not-for-profit housing providers.

As the Bill is currently worded, institutional housing providers are not covered by these rules. I think it is very important that they are, because it is a huge sector, projected to grow to very large proportions in future, and it looks after the same vulnerable communities as any other housing provider. That is the important thing here. Whether they are institutionally funded or not is actually irrelevant; it is about who is their client group. Their client group is some of the most vulnerable communities in this country, which many of our RSLs are very good at catering for, but because they are dealing with the same client group, because the young people and older people in their purview are exposed to exactly the same situations, they should have exactly the same powers to help people.

We are talking about the ability to defend people’s life chances, because we can make where they are living safe. It can be dealt with properly. I have worked on many housing estates; I was born and raised on one myself. Anti-social behaviour that cannot be addressed by the landlord is an absolute blight on people’s lives, so we are just asking for that small wording to be changed. It would be a very small but very powerful change. I believe that it is not a purposeful exclusion; it is just because we are using the definition from 2014.

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, I too agree with much of what the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, said, and I have added my name to his Amendment 12 to ask the Government to amplify the basis upon which exclusion orders might be made and the quality of the evidence required. An order excluding someone from his or her home has always to be seen as a last resort —in this context, when other less drastic restraints have not worked or are clearly not likely to work. I therefore hope that the Government can clarify the likely scenarios and the criteria that will apply when exclusion orders are sought and granted.

As I understand it, under the Bill, the application will be based on the risk assessment to be carried out under new Section J1, supplemented by guidance yet to come. The Bill does not expressly say, as far as I can see, that the risk assessment should be included with the application to be made to the court, or that it should be served on the respondent where possible. Both requirements should surely be explicit, not implicit. I suggest also that at least the risk assessment should be expected to summarise the behaviour and attitude of the respondent giving rise to the risk of harm, and specifically to the need to evict him or her from their home. In addition, and by analogy with the family jurisdiction, with which I am more familiar, it should actually state the effects of making or not making the order on other known occupants of the home, including relevant children.

Finally, the assessment, I suggest, should set out clearly the reasons to believe that making an exclusion order will actually reduce the perceived risks. Experience shows—certainly, my experience shows—that in some cases, making such an order may do no more than move the problem on somewhere else.

[Lord Hacking (Lab)]

My Lords, I echo a lot of the concerns that have been expressed so far in this debate. The scrutiny of the Bill by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, is something that I hope we will all take very careful note of.

I particularly support my noble friend Lady Chakrabarti in her first intervention. She is very experienced in social matters from her days in Liberty, and she rightly warns us that there will be a lot of problems if respect orders are brought in as they are legislated. Incidentally, respect orders cover 11 pages of the Bill, a Bill that I, for legislative complaints, described at Second Reading as “a monster”. I shall not describe these 11 pages on respect orders as being a monster, because I think the Government have been trying very hard to get it right, but they have not so far done so, and therefore the sensible thing—and this is not to criticise the Government—is for there to be a pause, and for these new respect orders not to be brought in as such in the Bill but only after we have been able to review the entirety of these orders, anti-social orders and orders to protect citizens from being badly disturbed living in their homes or walking the streets.

I urge my noble friend the Minister to move with caution and to accept that the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, is not a destructive amendment but a sensible amendment to achieve the one thing that we should be achieving in the Bill, which is to get it right, as right as we possibly can.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Meston Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 12th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, I am one of the two survivors of the Committee on Medical Ethics that reported in 1994, consequent on the case of Anthony Bland. Since then, my views have changed, assisted by the report from the Nuffield Council on Bioethics. While some arguments for and against the Bill are finely balanced, it now seems to me that the balance comes down in its favour, and I support it.

The status quo is unacceptable. At present, it is possible irrationally to refuse life-saving treatment, but not possible to pursue an independent, rational request for life-ending treatment. At present, the law allows suicide but can criminalise any compassionate loved ones from whom the person may want or need help. The law cannot be left as it is: discriminating in favour of those who still have the physical ability and finance to travel abroad unaided, while allowing other unregulated, covert and sometimes drastic practices to continue. Opponents of the Bill must consider how much of the existing status quo they wish to continue.

I do not accept the more extreme objections to the Bill. The legislation is indeed not rushed; the topic has been extensively considered in and out of Parliament for years. Ironically, the first Bill rejected by this House in 1936 is said to have failed because the safeguards were too cumbersome. I do not accept speculative, overstated, slippery slope arguments. Good legislation can and should provide firm footholds on any perceived slope through unambiguous drafting, clear and specific safeguards and guidelines—including active oversight—and proper exploration of realistic alternative medical options, including palliative care. Parliament can and should retain control of the focus and clear confines of the new law, and the courts and the Government can be expected to make clear that any further permitted extension of such law should be for Parliament and require primary legislation.

The risk and sources of possible improper pressure by unscrupulous partners or relatives can be discerned and addressed by appropriate regulation and procedures, and by informed assessment of the family’s structure and dynamics and the financial implications. The proposed multidisciplinary panel should have an inquisitorial approach to collect and test the necessary evidence and, where necessary, make factual decisions.

Further consideration should be given to requiring earlier notification to family and carers, and encouraging their participation, if wanted, and requiring disclosure of testamentary arrangements. I would like to see a wider role for the independent advocate, authoritative guidance for vital assessment of capacity and possible protection of anonymity. This Bill was improved in another place; it can be further improved here.

Finally, I would suggest that perhaps the worst possible outcome would be differing laws in different jurisdictional parts of the British Isles.

Domestic Abuse: Victims and Survivors

Lord Meston Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, the Government’s aim to halve violence against women and girls in a decade, target perpetrators and address the root causes of abuse and violence is clearly ambitious. It is perhaps less ambitious than the elimination of domestic violence, referred to in the Motion before us.

Statistics do not suggest either aim to be possible. The World Health Organization reports domestic violence to be the largest cause of morbidity in women aged 19 to 44—more than wars, cancer or motor accidents. Domestic abuse used to be seen as essentially a private problem, except in extreme cases. Changed perceptions and the Human Rights Act have given the state responsibilities for positive, preventive and protective action, now reinforced by the Istanbul convention, signed in 2012 and eventually ratified in 2022. That is a convention based on realities rather than on abstract rights.

Domestic abuse persists and will continue to do so, but having worked in family law for a long time I want to emphasise some significant improvements: first, the changes in terminology that have already been referred to. The 2021 Act provides a wide and useful definition of domestic abuse, including psychological, emotional and economic abuse, and it is not confined to what happens in a home, if there is one. But the word “domestic” remains fundamental, emphasising the need to protect homes as places of security and safety, and not as places of dangerous misery.

The recognition of controlling or coercive behaviour has served to focus the attention of the courts and professionals on patterns of behaviour rather than individual incidents. There is now a much better understanding of the impact on victims, in terms of social and familial isolation and loss of self-esteem, particularly in households and relationships in which violence and abuse have become normalised.

However, many perpetrators of abuse, lacking empathy and insight, all too easily move on to other harmful relationships. The family courts see this time and again. Sadly, Sarah’s law and Clare’s law are seldom used by those who most need them.

There are positive indications, however. The police have become more responsive and better at recognising domestic abuse. Refuges remain vital in giving at least temporary safety and enabling women to move on. IDVAs are an invaluable addition to the practical support available; funding for them should be assured. Cafcass officers are now subject to a new Cafcass domestic abuse practice policy, based on hearing victims clearly and taking concerns seriously.

I do not wish to take any more time defending the role of the family courts, but we have to resolve conflicting claims of ulterior motives. There is now a very valuable Family Justice Council document giving welcome and important guidance, giving greater weight to domestic abuse allegations and to suggestions of potential alienation.

Istanbul Convention: Article 59

Lord Meston Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I hear what the noble Lord has powerfully mentioned. As I have indicated, a review is being undertaken by my honourable friend the Minister for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls, Jess Phillips, in the House of Commons. That review will be completed in short order, I hope, and I will be able to report its outcome back to this House in due course. I fully understand the passion with which the noble Lord speaks.

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, it is well known that uncertainty about immigration status can be exploited by those wanting to continue to restrict and control a partner or former partner, so it is welcome that we now have some clarification about our compliance with the obligations under Article 59. The article is not open to abuse or misuse: it is confined by its terms to those in particularly difficult circumstances. In view of what the Minister has said, can he also confirm what will happen when the reservation, which was originally time limited, and I think remains so, expires?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The question of the expiry of Article 59 is part of the review. I find myself in the difficult position of repeating myself: a review is being undertaken and its outcome will be reported back to this House in due course, and a decision will be taken by the Government to maintain the previous Government’s reservation or change it. I am not in a position today to inform the House of the outcome of that review.

King’s Speech

Lord Meston Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, having been a family judge for some years, I welcome the opportunity to endorse what was just said about deprivation of liberty orders concerning children. I have had to make such orders myself, and they are very worrying. What is required is further inquiry into how that jurisdiction works.

I turn to the main topic of the debate. In the latter part of the last Parliament, useful work was done to produce what is now the Victims and Prisoners Act—the framework on which the new Government can build, and now have the time to do so. The greatest disservice to victims is caused by delays in getting their cases to and through the courts. There is no time now to analyse the reason for such delays—the backlogs, and what has become a chronic inability to catch up—but I welcome what the noble Lord, Lord Timpson, said, when he provided an impressive warm-up act for his own maiden speech. I urge the Government to take note of the Bar Council’s recent Manifesto for Justice, which proposes a requirement for Crown Court trials to start

“within six months of the first hearing”.

Surely that can and should be properly seen as an attainable target.

Avoidable delays cause most distress and strain in cases of sexual assault. Rape cases have a high rate of not-guilty pleas, requiring jury trials. The Government’s plan for designated rape courts is welcome, but it is unclear whether those specialist courts will be additional to, or simply part of, existing court capacity. Few court buildings have spare space suitable to the requirements of sensitive rape trials, in which defendants and witnesses have to be isolated and separated. Will these courts be confined to rape cases, or will other serious sexual offences be similarly dealt with there? This is an important part of the Government’s stated ambition to curtail violence against women and girls. Without a restoration of confidence in the processes facing victims, allegations will continue to be unreported. Ultimately, the measure of the success or failure of the Government’s plans will be how many victims of such offences would still say in future that they would not again participate in the criminal process.

The crisis of overcrowding in prisons that has prompted the need for early release, as well as a welcome promise to reinvigorate the probation service, has already been spoken to at some length. Therefore, I will not say more about it, other than to add that sentencing decisions, which can be difficult enough, should be governed by established and considered principles—with guidelines developed to ensure consistency and public confidence—rather than by the fluctuating size of the prison estate.

As is well known, and as the Lancet recently reported:

“People with mental health disorders are disproportionately represented in prison populations and are more likely to have poor physical health and social outcomes after prison”.


It is therefore crucial, to prevent reoffending and recidivism, that proper measures exist to prepare prisoners for release and to support them after release, at the very least in their first few weeks outside. It serves nobody if the first person to meet a newly released prisoner is his or her former drug dealer.

In that regard, we should commend and reinforce the work done by organisations such as the St Giles Trust and Unlock, which help those with criminal records lead stable lives; I was pleased to hear what the Minister said about that. On a separate note, I would inquire how the Government propose to revisit the problem of convicted criminals who resist, sometimes physically, attending court for sentencing. The last thing victims need or want is disruption of a sentencing hearing by a defiant defendant trying to attract attention. The imposition of an additional penalty for those facing long sentences will be no more than a token gesture; perhaps, therefore, the best answer for such conduct is to have some impact on parole.

I will not proceed to speak about family law, which I know most about, other than to say that I endorse most of what was said by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Bellamy. However, I hope he would accept that the judiciary do their best to keep costs down.

I hope that the change in government will see an end to ill-considered attempts to curtail and disapply the Human Rights Act and the regard to be had for the European Convention on Human Rights. It has served us well in raising standards within the legal system and beyond, and should not be diluted.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

Well said.

Modern Slavery National Referral Mechanism: Waiting Times

Lord Meston Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Yes, I am very happy to do so. The Salvation Army deserves great credit, because it is contracted to offer a lot of the services that are delivered via the NGOs to the victims.

[Lord Meston (CB)]

My Lords, as the Minister has said, assessments to identify and support victims of trafficking, for whom any delay is harmful, can be complex and time-consuming. How many children are involved in the increasing backlog, either as victims themselves or as the children of victims? Do cases involving children receive any priority—and, if so, how?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Of course, there are a lot of age-disputed cases in the system, so it is difficult to give the noble Lord a precise answer on that. There are decision-making pilots for children which are much quicker at making decisions. They are taken through a multi-agency structure of the local authority, health and police as a minimum. The safeguarding partners have a responsibility to obtain and present evidence at meetings where decisions are taken, so they are dealt with slightly differently.