Housing Benefit

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, the policy as it stands is designed, first, to save money. We are looking to save £500 million a year here, which is within the context of the overall saving of £2 billion that we are trying to make over two years. The bulk of the burden has been on the private rented sector, on the LHA basis, and that has gone through reasonably safely. We are monitoring this particular change. All these changes have to be looked at very carefully and we need to keep a very close eye on this one, and we are keeping a very close eye on it. The change is designed to make sure that people can respond by trading down, pulling in lodgers or looking for work. People can make a behavioural response here, and clearly we are looking for that response.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, a couple were interviewed on television this morning by Eamonn Holmes. The wife had spina bifida and had to be in a special bed, which the viewers were able to see. The husband was therefore required to sleep in a second room. He stated that both of them will lose £60 per month and that they had made representations to the Minister’s department. Will the Minister look into this matter, which seems to me and many others to be very unjust indeed?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, we are looking to protect people in difficult circumstances by looking to the local authorities to apply the discretionary housing payments, which have gone up enormously. Overall, they are running at £150 million this year, and at £360 million for the SRS. Our expectation is that these hard cases will be looked after locally.

Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I have laid out for the Committee the measures that are there and have been put forward by the Treasury. The noble Baroness wants to put forward some alternative statistics. Let me get back to the point I was making about the arrangements that are being put in place to ensure that, when we move into the implementation phase, support is available for those who need it, if there are any people who are not properly covered by the changes that we are making.

The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, referred to local authorities when he was talking about this. The local authorities and the Scottish and Welsh Governments would get £178 million to deliver new local welfare provision. They will develop local schemes to help those facing a crisis or short-term unavailable need. On the arrangements for people moving from weekly receipt of payments to monthly receipt, a whole range of different programmes is being put in place to support people in budgeting and making sure that they have the support that they need to manage the changes that are being brought about—changes that we believe will have the right effect in ensuring that this is a much simpler and more effective welfare system.

The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, and the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, also referred in this context to food banks. I point out to noble Lords that one reason why there has been an increase in the use of food banks is because the Government were clear that we wanted Jobcentre Plus advisers to be able to signpost their availability to claimants. For reasons that noble Lords on the other side of the House will presumably be able to explain, this was not possible before. The Trussell Trust director has said that he thinks that there has been a need there for a while, but the growth in the number of volunteers and the awareness that you can get this help if you need it explains the growth in this area.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

Is it not a sad day when a government Minister has to stand up and say that food banks will be made available? Our children should not have to depend on food banks in this day and age.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

It is a sad fact that people should have to rely on food banks; I absolutely acknowledge that point and do not dispute it at all. The point I am making to the Committee is that Jobcentre Plus staff are now permitted to signpost the fact that they are available, whereas previously they were not permitted to do so. I am not suggesting that the fact that they exist is to be applauded at all, but it would be wrong for Jobcentre Plus staff not to be able to say that they are there to people who might be able to take some advantage of them just because we do not want to make that facility known.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, I do not for one moment suggest that food banks are something on which anybody would want to have to rely. I completely agree with the noble Baroness in that regard. My point is simply that the fact they exist—

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

I suggest to the Minister that we should be ashamed that this is happening. I was brought up in the 1950s in a family of the poorest of the poor, and my parents would not have dreamt of going to a food bank. All these years later, we are talking of parents and children having to go to a food bank. If this so-called facility exists, the Government should do something to eradicate the need for food banks.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, food banks have existed for a long time. They have not been introduced in recent times—that was the point I tried to make by quoting the director of the Trussell Trust. I am not trying to make any point about this whatever. I do not for one moment suggest that anybody in this House should feel anything other than great disappointment that anybody should have to use a food bank. I am making a simple point. All noble Lords have been clear about their views, and certainly I am not here to disagree with the arguments they made. Let me move on.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, while accepting the need to strike a balance, argued none the less that a report into the adequacy of benefit levels would be useful, as it would help people better understand where benefit incomes sit in relation to the rest of society, and so would help inform the debate. This approach relies on the idea that we could produce figures that would concretely situate benefit incomes in relation to an objective adequate level. The desire to draw conclusions on the adequacy of benefit levels has always been fraught with technical difficulties. In 1985, the then Government looked at this issue and concluded that,

“it is doubtful whether an attempt to establish an objective standard of adequacy would be fruitful … all such assessments would themselves include judgements on the standards to be achieved”.

This view was echoed in the previous Labour Government’s consultation exercise on measuring child poverty, which concluded that,

“despite a wide range of research into budget standards, there is no simple answer to the question of what level of income is adequate … Different research methods tend to make different assumptions that are essentially subjective”.

Similarly, during her time as Minister at the Department for Work and Pensions, the right honourable Margaret Hodge said, when asked what assessment the Government had made of the minimum income a household needed to live on:

“Our concerns about research on minimum income standards have been well documented. What people need to live on varies greatly depending on their needs and a range of factors. Different research methods tend to make different assumptions and generate a range of estimates”.—[Official Report, Commons, 7/2/06; col. 1163W.]

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, also raised the issue of minimum income standards, and suggested that this metric could be used as a measure of benefit adequacy. We will continue to take note and look carefully at the evidence from research on minimum income standards. However, I do not believe that minimum income standards provide an appropriate comparator when considering the adequacy of benefit rates.

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s minimum income standard is a relatively new metric—the first report was in 2008—and there is no international consensus on how this should relate to setting benefit standards. Minimum income standards are informed by public perception so can change even if prices do not. For example, the rate for a couple with two children increased by a third between 2008 and last year—more than twice the rate of inflation. Moreover, it is important to remember that most working-age benefits are intended to provide temporary support during periods of interruption to employment, whereas the minimum income standard is focused on more long-term living standards. The Bill does not, of course, affect long-term benefits, such as those paid to pensioners or those relating to additional needs arising from disability.

Unemployment: Young People

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

Well, my Lords, the structure of the Work Programme is designed to make sure that no one is parked in that way. There are specific measures to prevent that happening. The main way in which to get the people who are the most difficult to get into work is by pricing; we price those people more highly than people who are simpler to get into work. We have also, as noble Lords will be aware, introduced a subsidy programme to encourage employers to take youngsters who are NEET into the workforce.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, the Minister will readily acknowledge that because of unemployment, some young people are unable to get work until they are 19 or 20. I know that he does not have the information now, but could he place in the Library the figure for how many UK adult apprenticeships there are? That would be very helpful.

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, the figure I have on apprenticeships for 19 to 24 year-olds is 31% of the total, which is 457,000 starts. I cannot work out the 31% in my head, but I might be able to do it later.

Credit Unions

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, I am the driver. I commissioned a report on credit unions last year. The DWP is the paymaster for the credit union movement. We have spent £113 million in the past six years. We are determined to go on funding this really important element of financial inclusion and to create an industry that will be viable in the long term and will support the poorest in our society.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, what limit is there on individual credit union loans? Will the Minister say what figure the credit unions are restricted to? I am very keen that self-employed tradesmen and women who want to start off with a small quantity of tools and equipment are able to go to a credit union in their locality rather than a bank, because banks at the moment are not very helpful to self-employed people.

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, there are various restrictions on credit unions at the moment. I am not aware of an absolute limit on loans. Clearly, the unions need a financially viable business structure. They do not have one at the moment. A typical loan from a credit union is about £500. It costs the union more than £75 to make the loan and it earns less than £63, so getting a new mix of business is vital.

Unemployment: Young People

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top]

My Lords—

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords—

[Lord Strathclyde]

We have not had a single question from the Cross Benches.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, apprenticeships and the initiatives that the Government are embarking on are good news for young apprentices. However, will these apprenticeship schemes be spread evenly throughout the country?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, clearly our intention is to put support where it is most required. Therefore, the schemes will be widespread but naturally there will be an emphasis on the areas that need most support.

Child Poverty

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, we have made quite a substantial change in approach to tackling child poverty. With our proposal to change the Child Poverty Commission into the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission, which went into Committee in the other place today, we are reinforcing some other measures beyond just income changes. We are using a series of other indicators to look at life chances as well as poverty in order to make sure that children have a better start and greater well-being.

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords, talking of a better start, the Minister will know that, unfortunately, where there is alcohol and drug abuse in a home, children often go hungry. I know that it is difficult, but can Her Majesty's Government take steps to ensure that every child, or as many children as possible, is able to get a breakfast before they go to their school in the morning?

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, that is micromanagement on some scale. We are trying with our welfare reforms to treat families as responsible units and for them to take the decisions that they need to take. However, we acknowledge that there are groups of families who cannot handle that responsibility. In moving the whole system to transfer responsibility to most families who can take responsibility, we are concerned about the people who cannot and what are the right ways of helping them. That is something to which we are paying active attention.

Unemployment

Lord Martin of Springburn Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

My Lords—

[Lord Martin of Springburn]

My Lords—

[Lord German]

My Lords—