NHS: Dementia Commission Report

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Thursday 22nd February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend is correct; I did not see reference in my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy’s report to music therapy either. I am familiar with some of the principles behind it. My personal experience myself with the elderly dementia patient that I cared for was that bringing my five year-old son along took them out of their position and made them care for that child and forget about their own situation. Those sorts of therapies—and music is similar—have a vital role that we will look into further as part of this plan.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the Alzheimer’s Society has a good report out called Dementia: What Every Commissioner Needs to Know, about Alzheimer’s care. What is the Government’s view on ensuring that ICBs across the country have a minimum standard of commissioning levels for people with dementia?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We have set out a dementia good care planning guide to exactly those commissioners because, as ever, we need uniformity in these areas. Part of the strength of ICBs is that they have freedom to deliver local services, but we have to make sure that they are always achieving at least the minimum levels that the noble Lord referred to. That is what the guidelines are about, and we are setting monitoring against that to make sure that they are delivering on it.

NHS App: Medical Records

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

In terms of averting it, there are some of the measures I was talking about. For instance, with facial recognition, if anyone else is seen in the picture, it disregards it, so that you cannot have someone else holding it or holding their head in to do it. If the person’s eyes are shut—if someone is trying to do it while you are asleep—it does not work either. Those safeguards are in place, as well as multi-factor authentication, so that if anyone tries to change their details by email or whatever, it comes back to them. We have worked with user groups on this. I will come back to the noble Baroness specifically on the Ministry of Justice conversations, but we are doing a lot in this space.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, digital transformation of the NHS at pace is being held back by the number of vacancies for digital roles within the NHS, particularly when many people are going over to the private sector for higher pay. What could the Government do to deal with this, particularly regarding the inflexible Agenda for Change?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Lord is absolutely correct. Digital resource is well sought after. I was approving something just the other day which gives us more flexibility in that space, because sometimes you have to pay over and above to get people on it. As we all agree, this is vital to the future of what we are trying to do.

Black and Minority Ethnic Babies: Mortality Rates

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, it absolutely does fit into it. We have increased the number of maternity staff by about 14% since 2010, and the long-term workforce plan is all about making spaces for 1,000 extra students and having many routes into it. Noble Lords have often heard me talk about how my mother got into nursing as an older mum—she got into maternity services. There are apprenticeships and later-life opportunities. You should not only be a graduate; you often know much more about life when you are that bit older, especially if you are a mum.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, child mortality rates in all high-income countries, apart from this one, are improving. What is it about this country that is causing this, and what evidence do the Government have to show that there is a specific problem here? What measures will be used to tackle this, and by what dates will this be done?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I have specifically investigated infant mortality rates. If you look at it, you see the increase is in pre-24-week term cases. Post 24 weeks, the number of cases has remained stable, the data has shown. I have been trying to drill down to understand why it happens within less than 24 weeks. Clearly, more work needs to be done. We are also changing the way this is being measured. We are looking for more indications of whether there are early signs of life, and if there are no early signs of life, that is not recorded as a death. Now there is a lot more investigation to understand those early signs of life, so the change in measurement could be increasing the numbers. I am happy to go into more detail on that.

Stroke Care

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Monday 24th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. As we all agree, there are always two steps involved: setting out the guidelines that we believe are best practice and making sure that they are then implemented. ICBs have that responsibility and regional managers look into them. As I think I have mentioned before, each Minister personally takes charge of six or seven ICBs—I will visit a few of them in the next few weeks during Recess—so we can make sure that they are really delivering on the ground.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the Getting It Right First Time report has shown that 29 recommendations are needed for strokes and its wider programme has shown what works in the healthcare system to improve care and save lives. What levers do the Government have when integrated care boards do not implement best practice to save lives and improve health in an area?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

There are a number of things. For want of a better phrase, we have a tier rating for the different trusts and hospitals and they can be put into the equivalent of special measures—that is not the right term, but the noble Lord knows what I am referring to. Ultimately, the NHS and Ministers also have the ability to hire and fire, as we know that leadership is vital in all these areas.

Dementia Palliative Care Teams

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Thursday 15th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The voluntary sector is a key element of this. On behalf of the department, I thank it for all the work it does. The direction of travel is very much to engage the sector and enlist its support as much as possible. The ICBs do the commissioning, and Derbyshire is a fantastic example of commissioning all the different strands, including the voluntary sector, hospices and palliative care to deal with clinical need. It is an excellent example of how to do it well and one that we need to spread everywhere.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, this service is patchwork, yet the demand is across the country. What can NHS England do to ensure that the unmet need for palliative and end-of-life care for people with dementia is met?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First, we were very upfront about it; part of the Health and Care Act 2022 is that the ICBs commission palliative care. Secondly, it is part of the six major conditions strategy. It is a major cause of death; about 11.4% of all deaths are caused by dementia. It is fundamentally the responsibility of the ICBs but we at the centre are making sure that the ICBs are commissioning in the way they need to.

Pharmacies: Medicines at Home

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely correct. It is the patient, or often their proxy or carer, who absolutely should be considered in this. It is the responsibility of the pharmacist to make sure that they are taking that into account. Again, I say very clearly to patients or pharmacists: if patients do not believe that they are getting the right packaging, and they believe that they need blister packs, they should absolutely be speaking to the pharmacist and the pharmacist should be providing that solution.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said that there were an extra 24,000 pharmacists. He will be aware that community pharmacists have complained that primary care networks are poaching them because they can afford to pay them more and community pharmacy is £1 billion short for providing existing services. What are the Government doing to plug that £1 billion gap in order to ensure that there are enough community pharmacists?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I say, I do not recognise those numbers. I do recognise that we are putting £645 million more into this space to fund this, and also that this will drive more people into pharmacies, who will not only go there for an appointment, but, no doubt because they are already there, they will generate other business off the back of it. I think and hope that this will actually reinvigorate the local pharmacy sector to the good of local communities and local people.

Health Education England (Transfer of Functions, Abolition and Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to today’s debate. As ever, I will attempt to answer the questions as best I can, and I will come back in writing with the details.

First, on when the workforce plan will be published, forgive me for this answer but I cannot resist it. I looked on the HEE website and it will be delivered “at the right time and in the right place”. I could not resist that one. I think the term I am allowed to use is “shortly”, which is different from “soon”, but I will let noble Lords decide. Seriously, however, there is a very detailed plan. While I acknowledge that there are concerns about delays and this being “Treasury-fied”, at the same time, serious questions have been raised, as we would expect. This is leading to a lot more thinking, which is the right thing to happen, provided we come out with the right answer. I hope noble Lords understand that work is going on to ensure deliverability.

I will try to answer the many questions asked, particularly on what the measures of success will be, as raised by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. From my point of view—it may be personal—we are publishing the workforce plan and the measure of success will be how well this body performs against that. It will not be down to that body alone; it is part of the newly merged entity. As the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, said, it is about recruitment, training and retention.

A key issue, as I know from being tangentially involved in some of the conversations with unions in the last few weeks, is a real recognition on our part that pay is a core issue, but so are things such as hot meals, rest areas for staff and parking. Some of those issues are important “health factors”, if you will excuse the pun, and we are very alive to them.

Turning to the questions raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, and the noble Lords, Lord Allan and Lord Scriven, as I say, it is about looking at savings across the piece. As noble Lords will know, we are talking about quite a considerable structure. The average trust is run by 300 or 400 admin staff; an ICB has 700 staff; a region has 650 to 700 staff; the NHS itself, at the centre, has 4,000 staff; and the Department of Health and Social Care accounts for another 3,500 to 4,000 staff. I think we would all agree that layer upon layer of management is not good, from not only a cost and efficiency point of view but a management point of view. We all talk about our various backgrounds, and speaking from mine, the fewer layers you have between the so-called management and the front line, the better. That is the wider picture of what we are trying to do here.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

I totally agree. I think Tesco, for example, has four levels of management between the customer and the chief executive. But I hope the Minister understands that, regardless of layers—this may not make me popular outside this place—the NHS is one of the most effective health services in western healthcare in terms of management costs. I hope the Minister does not take the populist view that having a go at the managers suddenly makes savings. We have to get the balance right. On comparators, the NHS is significantly well placed in the western world in terms of its cost ratio of managers to patient care. I hope the Minister will accept that.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Lord is right: it is about the effectiveness of the layers. I come at this from the view, “How do we make this most effective?” That is the major gain to be won from all this.

The noble Baroness is right to bring up the issue concerning the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. I have spoken to all the staff in the DHSC about it, and I have given assurances to the House on the importance we attach to it. I am meeting the Leaders of both Houses tomorrow to discuss how we are working to make improvements in this space. Hopefully, we are making progress.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, for her contribution. It is fantastic to have her on the board, given her experience. Several noble Lords asked about the social care element. As we know, the situation is slightly different because most people in the social care space are employed by third-party organisations. There will not be a direct read across, but the Minister will be announcing shortly the next version of People at the Heart of Care, which aims to address a number of issues. It is probably best to wait for that, and we can take it from there.

I have tried to cover as many of the issues raised as possible, and I am quite happy to follow up in writing any I have missed. Reassurance was sought regarding current training budgets, pointing out that, while we want to make savings where possible, we need to know they are being made in the right place. A separate board structure is being set up within the organisation to make sure that such matters are separately scrutinised and not lost within the overall picture, because it is understood how vital that is. These are all elements I will try to cover more completely in a written response.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

That is a helpful answer. To be clear, you can have a separate board, but if the budget is not ring-fenced, all that they are scrutinising is a smaller budget. I think the question that was asked—although maybe not specifically—was, will the training budgets be ring-fenced and will the board therefore be looking after a ring-fenced budget?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I think that is probably one element I need to come back to the noble Lord on in writing.

As I said, I will try to follow up the questions in detail. I welcome the contributions of various noble Lords and their understanding of what we are trying to do here. I understand the arguments, as an ex-management consultant, regarding centralisation versus decentralisation and how they go in and out of fashion. This is a slightly different case because it is about bringing a core function in house. To me, that is the key change and the key thing we will be seeking to measure. As well as setting out clinical needs, the key role of the NHS at its centre is making sure that it is recruiting, training and retaining talent to meet the workforce plan needs. On that note, I thank noble Lords for their contributions and hope that my follow-up answers any questions that I missed.

Hospitals: Maintenance

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Twenty-one outline or full planning permissions have been given, which is totally on track with the target. Clearly, if some of those hospitals are not being built until, say, 2027, there would be no detailed planning permission yet. So those statistics are not representative of the situation, which shows that the programme of planning applications is on track. I am committed, as are my colleagues, to ensuring that we deliver the 40 by 2030.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, what are the Government going to do to end the ludicrous situation whereby even if NHS trusts have cash in the bank or access to the proceeds of asset disposals, they can be barred from improving major equipment on their estate because of arbitrary departmental capital expenditure limits imposed by the Treasury?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Clearly, we want to give each trust the freedom to spend where it needs to. Obviously, there are overall Treasury rules but the main thing is the increased allocation we have made available in this space. We have spent £1.4 billion in the past year, which is a 57% increase, recognising that it is a good thing to put preventive maintenance in place to get on top of the backlog.

Times Health Commission

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I mentioned, we are working on and taking good ideas from there. I know that it is one of the inputs being considered in all this.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the Government do not need a Times Health Commission to know that there are 165,000 social care staff vacancies and a 29% turnover of staff in that sector, while 542,000 people are waiting in the community for an assessment of their social care needs. Short-term funding as a sticking plaster is not going to work, so when are the Government going to bring forward a strategic plan, with funding, for social care?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I said, we have already announced big increases in funding, with more than 20% over the next two years. Two years is not the short term. Minister Whately is working very hard on this because we know that the flow in social care is a key element of the whole solution.

Excess Deaths in Private Homes

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Tuesday 10th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

It is a whole-system issue, as I have often mentioned in this House, that takes into account some of the elements of home care, and very much the social care and dom care elements. We know that that is very much a factor in the 13,000 beds that we need to free up through things such as dom care, so yes.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, excess deaths started to rise in June of last year—at the same time, interestingly, as long waits on trolleys in A&Es started. These have got worse as A&E trolley waits have increased. What did Professor Whitty say about that statistic? If nothing, will there be a review into the waits on trolleys in A&E as a possible cause of excess deaths?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

This whole area is all about the number of beds and the occupancy. This analysis was done around the October plan for patients, where we said that we were going to put in 7,000 beds and a £500 million discharge fund. What was clear, as per the announcement yesterday, was that the high level of Covid beds—9,500—and the over 5,000 flu beds were far more than any of us estimated. That increased bed occupancy means that we have had to look to increase supply again and at the number of discharges to social care. That is the root cause of the problem. That is why we acted again yesterday to provide even more care in those places.

NHS Dental Contract

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My understanding is that the staff plan will include dentists, but I will confirm that in writing. I absolutely accept that the contract changes must attract people into the profession. For the dental deserts, we need to encourage, for example, a dentist who has been in practice for eight years to set up a new practice. They are used to being a dentist, but they are not used to raising the money to set up a new clinic in a new area, which is what they need to do. Clearly, that is the sort of support we need if are to tackle the dental desert issue. I am under no illusions as to what needs to be done, and we are working on it.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. Does the Minister agree, despite the new package that has just come forward, with the Conservative chairman of the Local Government Association Community Wellbeing Board, who has said that the Government should urgently commit to a comprehensive dental workforce strategy and increase councils’ funding of the public health grant in real terms to help deal with the dental desert in many parts of the country?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. As I mentioned, dental deserts are very much a part of the package we are looking at. To give noble Lords an idea of the sense of direction, another approach to the workforce issue is a modular escalator system, and we are talking to the BDA about training. For instance, on the way to becoming a fully qualified dentist, might a dentist become part-qualified, allowing them to do some dental nurse treatments, thereby adding to that capacity in the meantime? These are all measures we are looking at to increase the workforce.

Adult Social Care

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and in so doing, I draw the attention of the House to my interests in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

The Government have noted the findings in the report. Our priority is for everyone who is entitled to adult social care services to get the right support they need, at the right time and in the right place. The Government recognise the immediate pressures adult social care is facing, which is why the Chancellor has announced up to £2.8 billion of additional funding in 2023-24 and £4.7 billion in 2024-25.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the extra money is to be welcomed, but two years’ extra funding is not a viable and sustainable response to the problems facing the social care system. Does the Minister agree with the Conservative chair of the LGA Community Wellbeing Board, Councillor David Fothergill, who says:

“Adult social care will remain in a crisis state until a comprehensive plan is in place to fully fund the care needed”?


If he does, when will that comprehensive funded plan be forthcoming?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I think we all agree on the vital necessity of adult social care—I think the noble Lord has heard me say it many times from this Dispatch Box—and that is what the £2.8 billion and £4.7 billion are about over the two years. The noble Lord is correct that we need to look longer-term, because the whole health service and the care of our elderly are obviously dependent on us getting this right.

British Heart Foundation: Tipping Point Report

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My understanding is that that is something for in-depth research, which I do not have at my fingertips. I will inquire and write back to the noble Lord.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, following on with prevention, prevention measures lead to fewer premature deaths from heart disease, yet this Government have slashed the public health grant by 24%, on a real terms per-person basis, since 2015-16. Some of the largest reductions over this period were in stop-smoking services and tobacco control, which fell by 41% in real terms. Do the Government not understand that decimating public health budgets means more heart disease and premature deaths?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are at the forefront of trying to encourage healthier eating, as per the sugary drinks levy and through product placement in shops. We have been at the forefront of anti-drinking and anti-smoking initiatives and are very much in favour of the smoke-free agenda. These are all key elements of our five-year healthier life plan. It takes these things into account because, as I say, prevention really is better than cure.

Health and Social Care Update

Debate between Lord Markham and Lord Scriven

Monday 10th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Walney. Another part of my many and varied background is as a previous deputy leader of Westminster Council, so I realise the importance of local authorities in this role. I will not confess to being familiar with that scale of unmet need at the moment, but I thank the noble Lord for raising that issue. I will make sure I go and find out more on it and, if I may, come back with a written response.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Minister to his role and wish him well, because of the crisis that the NHS and social care face. In asking my question, I also declare my interest as a non-executive director of Chesterfield Royal Hospital’s NHS trust and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. The Conservative cabinet member for adult social care in Devon said in the last couple of weeks:

“We are … in crisis mode … It is very difficult because you can stack shelves in supermarkets and earn more money than you can in social care. We need to see national government”


respond to this urgently. If all the £500 million given to social care—assuming that this money, because it is short term, is to last for six months—was to be equally distributed between the salaries of the 1.5 million people in social care, it equates to just 31p per hour more, which would still be below the market rate for some supermarket shelf stackers. So what is going to happen to make sure that enough resources go towards dealing with the crisis in social care, so that need can be met and staff can be retained?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We live in a time of a very competitive jobs market and such a competitive market brings challenges with it, as the noble Lord says. We need to make sure that people feel that these jobs not only are recognised as important but make sense economically for them as well. We are investing £15 million in expanding our recruitment and resourcing to attract more people into the industry. We also need to look overseas and I think many are aware of our plans to do that. It is not lost on the team over here that we need to make sure that this is an attractive job and career for people to move into.