International Development (Official Development Assistance Target) Bill

Debate between Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market and Lord Lawson of Blaby

Friday 6th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

Yes. I think that we have had sufficient discussion for the day about Clause 5(2), but we have still not had a satisfactory answer about the rather important Clause 5(1), which says:

“The Secretary of State must make arrangements for the independent evaluation of the extent to which ODA provided by the United Kingdom represents value for money in relation to the purposes for which it is provided”.

What the arrangements are should be and must be in the Bill. They were originally, because there was a schedule setting up a new body to do it. The schedule was taken out, and there is now a vacuum. We are not told in the Bill what these arrangements are, which body will ensure and evaluate the extent to which the ODA provided gives value for money, and so on.

My noble friend suggested in this amendment, “Why not use the ICAI and put it on a statutory basis?”, and that can be done. That seems very sensible, and I am rather suspicious about the rejection of this amendment, because it suggests that they are trying to weasel out of any effective independent evaluation. If they are not, what are the arrangements for the evaluation? Why not the ICAI, or why not restore the other body that was there originally? That must be in the Bill. I suspect, having heard the noble Lord’s obduracy on this point, that we will have to come to this again on Report. However, it is a very real point. No satisfactory answer of any kind has been given, either by the Minister or by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis.

[Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market]

My Lords, I share my noble friend’s concerns about this. We have been given very inadequate answers on this today, particularly from the Minister, and we will simply have to return to this on Report. It is a very important issue, because the size of the budget now, as my noble friend Lord Forsyth pointed out—about one-third of the defence budget—is huge. The taxpayer needs to be satisfied that the tasks have been properly and effectively carried out. It is one thing to set up an independent evaluation, which in the Secretary of State’s mind is an independent evaluation, and another thing to have one that is effective and that can convince us all that the department will undertake to get proper value for money.

That PAC report, which is probably one of the worst I have ever seen, does not give me a great deal of confidence that the Secretary of State is given total entitlement to set up the organisation that will reassure him about value for money. There are therefore some important distinctions here, and we have not yet had a satisfactory answer. As I said, it is a very important issue, and we shall have to return to it on Report. However, on that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.