National Insurance Contributions (Employer Pensions Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Livermore and Lord Fuller

Report stage
Thursday 5th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

If it is a new employment contract, it is a new employment. It is a new job. I think that should be fairly clear. On his point about collective bargaining, it is my understanding that it would be outside of scope. Again, that will be set out clearly in guidance.

Finally, I turn to Amendments 9, 10, 24, 25, 30 and 41 from the noble Baronesses, Lady Neville-Rolfe and Lady Kramer, and the noble Lords, Lord Altrincham and Lord Fuller, which relate to parliamentary scrutiny and propose an impact report on the contributions limit.

The core policy is set out in primary legislation to provide certainty for employers, with detailed operational matters deliberately dealt with through regulations to allow time to engage with employers. The approach we have taken follows long-standing precedent in national insurance legislation and ensures that the design is workable, fair and consistent with the wider national insurance contributions framework.

Early and sustained engagement with industry is central to the Government’s approach. The regulations will set out the detailed operational framework, including matters such as administration, process and interaction with payroll systems. These are best informed by technical expertise from employers, payroll providers and software developers themselves. Building on that engagement, the Government will consult on the regulations ahead of implementation. This will allow stakeholders to scrutinise the detailed design, raise practical concerns and begin preparing well in advance. It is through this process of consultation, guidance and industry engagement that employers will gain the clarity they need on how the system will operate in practice.

I also remind the House that a tax information and impact note has already been published, setting out the expected impacts of the policy on individuals, employers and the Exchequer. As with other tax measures, the Government will continue to monitor the operation of the policy as it is implemented and informed by ongoing engagement with Parliament and external stakeholders. Additionally, I assure the House that the Government intend to lay the regulations in good time before they commence. This will both support employer readiness and ensure that Parliament has a proper opportunity to scrutinise the regulations before they take effect.

The Bill draws a clear and appropriate distinction in relation to what matters should be dealt with by way of affirmative and negative procedure. Where regulations reduce the generosity of the £2,000 cap and increase Class 1 national insurance liability, they are subject to the affirmative procedure, ensuring full parliamentary scrutiny where contributor liability is increased. By contrast, regulations that implement the policy framework, set out administrative and operational detail or increase the cap so that less national insurance is payable are subject to the negative procedure. This reflects long-standing practice in national insurance legislation, where secondary legislation under the negative procedure is used for the operation of reliefs and matters of administration.

I also remind noble Lords that the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee has scrutinised the Bill and raised no concerns about the proposed level of parliamentary scrutiny. Taken together, this approach provides robust parliamentary oversight where liabilities increase, while reflecting the well-established precedent for legislating for administration and reliefs through secondary legislation subject to negative resolution.

For these reasons, the Government do not believe that additional statutory requirements are necessary. In light of the positions I have set out, I hope that noble Lords will feel able not to press their amendments.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, I have written plenty down, but I am not going to say very much of it. I thank the Minister for accepting most generously the principle that this Bill was not ready to be passed into law, and I accept the reassurances he has given so far concerning the amendments I laid. It was absolutely right that we challenge the principle: criminal penalties should not come through regulation; they need to be in the Bill. The complexity has been outlined and, in light of the other amendments before us, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 2.

National Insurance Contributions (Employer Pensions Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Livermore and Lord Fuller

Committee stage
Tuesday 24th February 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

That intention will be set out in the regulations once we have fully consulted relevant employers.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

There is a transfer of risk, of prejudice, from the individual, who is responsible under the current arrangements, to the employer. That has not been fleshed out at all. If you have a salary sacrifice that is processed by the employer, all of a sudden that employer trespasses on the duty at the end of the tax year for the employee to put in his tax return. There has been a muddying of the water here between the employee and the employer. I know we are going to come back on Report, and I hope we will get it done in a day, but the Government should lay out their approach to this and state where the liability sits and where the penalties may be applied for honest mistakes made in that interface between the employer and the employee. That is not at all clear, and it should be.

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his further thoughts. The carryover feature—

Local Government Finance Act 1988 (Prescription of Non-Domestic Rating Multipliers) (England) Regulations 2026

Debate between Lord Livermore and Lord Fuller

Tuesday 10th February 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

As I said, I cannot commit to introducing any specific targeted relief, but we keep all taxes under review.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

I raised the issue that this year there was a misalignment between the Treasury and MHCLG regarding some of the changes that were made to the business rates. Will the Minister commit to at least having advanced discussions between MHCLG and the Treasury in future years? There has been a temporary sticking plaster—I might characterise it as that—and the sector is very grateful for that, but it is for one year only. Having got out of the fire this year, can we be clear that we will not accidentally stumble back in on a future occasion, otherwise we will be standing here in 12 months’ time having the same debate?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I listened carefully to the noble Lord’s remarks and do not think he asked a specific question, which is why I did not give him a specific answer. Of course, the Treasury and MHCLG talk regularly on all matters and will continue to do so.

Carbon Border Taxes

Debate between Lord Livermore and Lord Fuller

Wednesday 12th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fuller]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, further to the proposals by the European Union to exempt 80 per cent of eligible EU companies from new carbon border taxes, what plans they have to ensure that equivalent businesses in the United Kingdom are treated similarly.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Livermore) (Lab)]

My Lords, this is already the case. To ensure that the costs of complying with the UK carbon border adjustment mechanism are proportionate, it will apply only to those firms importing CBAM goods valued at £50,000 or more over a rolling 12-month period. The Government estimate that this will exclude 80% of CBAM-eligible firms while retaining more than 99% of imported emissions within the scope of the tax.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, the carbon border adjustment mechanism is a tariff by any other name. I am involved in an industry affected by CBAM, so I know more than most about the astonishingly divergent way in which the UK Government plan to introduce this tax. It will damage competitiveness, be complex to administer and drive growing inflationary pressures. There are even proposals to levy the tax to protect industries that do not even exist anymore. The EU has worked out for itself—

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

I am just about to ask the question. The EU has worked out for itself that building a walled garden around the economy will damage its own competitiveness. The Prime Minister said today in PMQs that all options were on the table in so far as tariffs are concerned. Does the Minister agree that the whole UK proposal needs a fresh look, or is he prepared to see us sleepwalk into a trade war with our friends and allies in the United States while damaging trade with our close EU partners?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his question. However, the answer is no, I do not agree with him. Reducing the UK’s carbon emissions is necessary to meet our emissions targets, and the emissions trading scheme and the carbon border adjustment mechanism are necessary tools to do that. Our approach is very similar to that of the EU. As the noble Lord said in his Question, we are doing exactly what the EU is doing—in fact, I think it has followed us, rather than the other way around, so our approaches are extremely similar. The US Administration have made no public comment on the UK CBAM, and I am not going to speculate on a hypothetical.