London Stock Exchange: Decline in UK Funds

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Thursday 13th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question, and once again, I pay tribute to her for her campaigning on this issue. The Government absolutely recognise the key role the investment company sector plays in the UK economy; it represents over 30% of the FTSE 250 and invests in assets that support the Government’s growth agenda. We have listened carefully to the noble Baroness’s concerns, not least through her campaigning in the previous Parliament and her Private Member’s Bill in this Parliament. Last year we legislated, I think as a direct result of her campaigning, to reform retail disclosure, with the FCA launching a consultation on an entire replacement regime in December.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware that the tax-dodging fast-fashion firm Shein, having been rejected in New York, is now apparently seeking to list on the London Stock Exchange. Does the Minister agree with Liam Byrne, the chair of the Business and Trade Committee, who wrote to LSE asking if it agreed that it was important that firms seeking to list on the exchange have safeguards against forced labour in their products?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

The decision on whether a firm can list in the UK is a matter for the independent regulator, the FCA, subject to a firm meeting its listing rules and relevant disclosure requirements.

Mortgage Prisoners Inquiry Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

2nd reading
Friday 7th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Livermore) (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I begin by congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, on his Bill and on his opening speech today. I thank him for bringing this issue to the attention of your Lordships’ House, not only through this Bill but through his campaigning over recent years.

The Government recognise the seriousness of the issue raised by this Bill—the challenge facing borrowers who have been unable to switch to a new mortgage deal despite keeping up to date with their repayments. While they constitute a small proportion of mortgage borrowers, for those affected the impact has been all too real, and I commend the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, for his work to highlight their situation.

The Bill has one central provision; to establish a public inquiry into the events surrounding the creation of the group of borrowers commonly referred to as “mortgage prisoners”. The Bill also contains terms of reference for that inquiry. I will seek to address three key points. First, the origins of this issue, and why the Government’s assessment is that the right processes were followed in relation to this group following the financial crisis. Secondly, the case for a public inquiry and why the Government do not believe that it represents the right approach. Thirdly, support to those affected and the action the Government are now taking.

The vast majority of the borrowers we are discussing today took out mortgages under less stringent lending conditions prior to the financial crisis. Many of these mortgages were held with either Northern Rock or Bradford & Bingley, which were subsequently nationalised by the Government to protect financial stability. In 2010, they were transferred to a public body known as UK Asset Resolution, which was unable to offer new deals to borrowers because of state aid rules. Between 2014 and 2021, UK Asset Resolution sold these mortgages back to the private sector. Many were sold to so-called inactive lenders that did not offer new mortgage deals, leaving some borrowers paying costlier standard variable rate tariffs. Those borrowers were, and in some cases still are, unable to switch to another lender because they do not meet modern lending criteria. The terms of reference for the inquiry proposed by the Bill seek to investigate the process by which these mortgages were sold back to the private sector.

The Government recognise the challenges faced by these borrowers and the very real impact this process has had on them. However, our assessment is that the correct protections were put in place at the time and that all relevant Financial Conduct Authority rules were followed.

Specifically, bidders were prevented from changing a customer’s existing terms and conditions. Rules ensured that all mortgages were either administered by a Financial Conduct Authority regulated entity or made in accordance with Financial Conduct Authority regulations. Further protections were included with each subsequent sale, some of which followed recommendations from Parliament.

All types of lenders, including “active” lenders who offered new loans, were invited to take part in this process, but interest from active lenders was very limited and no viable bids were put forward in any of the sales. This likely reflects the fact that most of the loans involved were outside of most active lenders’ risk appetite following the financial crisis. The Government have studied this issue carefully but we remain of the view that no further action should have been taken at the time to encourage only active lenders to take part, particularly given the importance of delivering value for money to the taxpayer.

The Bill before your Lordships’ House proposes a statutory public inquiry to explore these issues in greater depth. The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, has spoken powerfully about the situation faced by affected borrowers and his desire to fully understand the process which resulted in their inability to obtain a new mortgage deal. The Government understand and respect this argument. However, we believe the scrutiny provided to date has produced the necessary information in relation to these events. This includes the two reports published by the National Audit Office covering various aspects of the sales process and, separately, a Public Accounts Committee report into one of the biggest asset sales. The previous Government also provided relevant disclosures to Parliament on the completion of each sale.

The Government agree with all those who wish to see these issues fully and transparently investigated. We will continue to work with regulators and industry to ensure that the issues and specific proposals raised by the report mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, are properly considered. However, given the volume of information already in the public domain, we do not believe a further inquiry would provide any significantly new information or additional support to those affected.

Finally, on the support currently available to borrowers, there are protections in place for vulnerable mortgage borrowers. Financial Conduct Authority rules require firms to engage individually with their customers to provide tailored support. Lenders have been allowed to waive certain regulatory requirements when assessing whether a new mortgage deal is affordable for borrowers who are up to date with their repayments. This applies to the cohort of borrowers we have been focusing on. Mortgage lenders, including inactive firms, are also now subject to the consumer duty, which ensures that firms prioritise fair treatment and good outcomes for their customers.

I fully understand that some noble Lords wish us to go further. I assure them that we will continue to consider this issue closely by listening to those borrowers affected and engaging with regulators, the industry and other key stakeholders, including the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, about the processes currently in place.

The Government recognise the impact felt by this group of mortgage borrowers. Their concerns have been ably highlighted by the noble Lord in this debate, as well as by other noble Lords from across the House. The Government will continue to listen carefully to their concerns and consult with others who have an interest in this issue, not least those households directly affected.

However, we are unable to support the Bill before your Lordships’ House today. Our assessment is that the correct process was followed when these mortgages were sold back to the private sector in the years after the financial crisis. We believe that the necessary information has now been put in the public domain, both as evidence submitted to Parliament by the previous Government and through other external analyses, including from the National Audit Office. Most importantly for the households affected, we are confident that significant protections are in place to protect vulnerable mortgage borrowers.

Although I appreciate this will not satisfy the noble Lord’s demands, I hope he will continue to work with the Government, as he has done throughout his campaign on this issue.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

The noble Lord did not refer to my questions about the UK Financial Ombudsman Service. I understand that this is a new situation. Perhaps he could write to me about that.

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I will happily do so.

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Committee stage
Thursday 6th February 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

My Lords, I will first address the amendment seeking to require the Government to review the impact of the measures in the Bill on people with protected characteristics. The Government carefully consider the impact of all decisions on those sharing protected characteristics, in line with our legal obligations and our commitment to greater fairness and opportunity. The Government are committed to meeting their obligation to the public sector equality duty, and Ministers are confident that the Government have met the obligation for the changes in this Bill.

Turning to the amendment requiring a review of the impact of the Bill on the environment and green jobs, as I have said previously, an assessment of the policy has been published by HMRC in their tax information and impact note. Further, the OBR’s Economic and Fiscal Outlook sets out the expected macroeconomic impact of the changes to employer national insurance contributions. The Government and the OBR have therefore already set out the impacts of the policy change. This approach is in line with the previous changes to national insurance and previous changes to taxation, and the Government do not intend to provide further impact assessments. In light of these points, I respectfully ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendments.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I have some sympathy with the comments made earlier about the quality of debate and response that we have received from the Government in this Committee. I must express agreement with those statements. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, for responding here. I point out that these amendments very much reflect her Amendment 64, which concerns the impact on economic growth, so I am not sure that the arguments about increased bureaucracy and resource cost will apply equally to her amendments.

None the less, let me pick up the points made by the Minister. He said, in referring to the effect on people with protected characteristics, that the Government are considering this carefully. I invite this Committee to consider some of the reports that have come out this week on the lack of trust—among young people in particular—in our Government and our so-called democracy. If we are to win back trust and have people feel that the Government are acting for the common good, not for a few special interests, the Government will need to show their workings. If the Government do indeed care, they need to demonstrate that they care, which is the kind of thing that this review would do.

On Amendment 69, I say again in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, that the economy is a complete subset of the environment. There are no jobs on a dead planet. There is not much point in assessing economic growth if there is nothing living for it to grow in. We are in Committee so I beg leave to withdraw my amendment, but I will be back.

Growing the UK Economy

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that question. I will leave it to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for DESNZ to bring forward the Government’s response in that area.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, Martin Wolf, the chief economics commentator for the Financial Times, this morning noted how trend growth across a wide range of global North countries continues to be at historic lows, reflecting real-world conditions such as increasing dependency ratios, and geopolitical and climate shocks. Mr Wolf said that

“the government could focus on redistribution instead”

of growth. Does the Minister agree with Mr Wolf that something such as a wealth tax could be a way to immediately address child poverty, ill health among working-age people, the housing crisis and the low spending power among the lowest 50% of the population by income that the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, alluded to?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question, but I do not understand the contention at the heart of it. She talks about redistribution, but what is the growth she wants to redistribute if she does not believe in growth? She talks about a wealth tax, but what wealth is it that she wants to tax? She does not believe wealth should be created.

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Committee stage
Tuesday 21st January 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I apologise for speaking after the Tory Front Bench, but I thought the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, was continuing after the voting break.

I will speak briefly in favour of Amendments 58 and 59. In doing that, perhaps I should declare an interest. I was on the board of the Fawcett Society in 2010 when it brought a judicial review against the emergency Budget of that year for its failure to honour its legal duty under the Equality Act to do with gender impact assessment. In that case, although Fawcett lost the overall case on legal grounds, it was said that the gender impact assessment requirements applied to the Budget and should have been carried out on a couple of aspects of that Budget.

With that in mind, I draw attention to the final page of the policy paper of 13 November, which I think we are regarding as an impact assessment. Under the heading “Equalities Impacts”, in this five-page document that my sub-editor’s eye tells me is in 16-point, it states:

“Secondary Class 1 NICs are levied on employers rather than individuals. There are therefore no direct equalities impacts”.


I would like to question the Minister on how it can be claimed that there are no equalities impacts. Some figures have already been raised, but I point out that 74% of part-time workers are female, 57% of involuntary part-time workers are female, 6 million women are working part time and 10 million women are working full time. According to the Resolution Foundation’s analysis of ONS data, 63% of UK workers under the £9,100 threshold are female. We are seeing national insurance charges increasing the cost of employment by nearly £700 a year for someone working 15 hours a week on the minimum wage. An additional 600,000 women workers are being brought within scope of national insurance. As others have said, on the minimum wage you need to work fewer than eight hours a week to stay below the new threshold.

Analysis of this has suggested that women workers are particularly affected by this change. Some of them may want to raise their hours, so this might turn out positive. Some of them may have caring responsibilities that mean that they cannot lift their hours and may then have to leave employment because they are being offered more or nothing. It is also worth pointing out that the Women’s Budget Group has highlighted how the overall impacts of the national insurance changes are likely significantly to increase childcare costs. That is of immediate relevance to working women with direct childcare responsibilities, but, as the Women’s Budget Group pointed out, there are also issues around grandparents, very likely grandmothers, who may find themselves being pushed, and feeling obligated, to leave employment so that they can take up childcare responsibilities. I do not think that that equalities impact can be justified and would appreciate the Minister’s comments.

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. I will address the amendments and the new clause proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and the noble Lords, Lord Bruce of Bennachie and Lord Londesborough. These seek to set a reduced rate of employer national insurance for part-time workers at 7.5%. As I have said before, the difficult decisions in the Bill were necessary to repair the public finances, protect working people and invest in Britain’s future. This amendment would reduce the revenue raised from the Bill and therefore prevent the Government achieving those objectives. In policy terms, reducing the rate of employer national insurance for part-time workers would create additional complexity in the tax system and distortions in the labour market.

The Government have taken action to support those on lower pay by increasing the national minimum wage, which I was interested to hear the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, describe as a blow. I think that will be interesting to those on lower pay. We have also introduced important protections for workers as part of the plan to make work pay.

Employers will also continue to benefit from employer national insurance reliefs, including for hiring under-21 and under-25 apprentices, where eligible.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, also spoke about umbrella companies and mini umbrella companies. I will just note that the Government are committed to closing the tax gap and have announced, as part of the closing the tax gap package in the Budget, that we will bring forward measures to tackle non-compliance in the umbrella company market, including mini umbrella company fraud.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, spoke specifically about equalities impacts. I can say that they were fully considered and we are confident that they are set out in the tax information impact note that she referred to.

UK-China Economic and Financial Dialogue

Debate between Lord Livermore and Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle

Tuesday 14th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for raising those important trade issues. I can assure him that, having just acceded to the CPTPP trading relationship, we are absolutely committed to continuing that relationship and to building trade relationships in that manner. On Taiwan specifically, we consider the Taiwan issue one that should be settled peacefully by people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait through dialogue, not through any unilateral attempts to change the status quo.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in responding to the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, just now, the Minister said that their austerity—referring to the Tory Government’s austerity—has left us worse off. Can the Minister assure me that we will not see further damaging austerity of the kind that has already left us with a terrible level of public health, teetering Civil Service departments that cannot keep up with their responsibilities and local government in crisis? Can he say that we are not going to see more of that from this Government?

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her question. I cannot remember what the Green Party’s position is on the national insurance increases that we have put in place. I certainly hope that she is not opposing those increases but supporting the extra investment that we are putting into the National Health Service as a result, because that would not be terribly coherent. We are committed to investing in our public services. The Budget we just had, in October, announced £100 billion more of capital investment. I certainly would not describe that as austerity.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

Since the Minister came directly at me, I very much invite him to look at the Green Party manifesto from the recent election. It remains our position to raise money from a range of sources to put vastly more investment into the NHS and many other government programmes, particularly through a wealth tax. I invite the Minister to look at it.

Since I am on my feet, the question that I was originally going to ask relates to the position of Jimmy Lai, as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer. Does the Minister agree that the situation of British citizen Jimmy Lai reflects the fact that there is no rule of law in China? In encouraging British businesses to further invest and become involved in China, is there not a significant risk to both their capital and staff where there is no rule of law? I am concerned that the Statement speaks with praise of HSBC and Standard Chartered. I do not know whether the Minister is aware of the situation where those companies have refused to hand over to Hong Kongers—BNO passport-holders who have come to the UK—their own money in pension funds.

[Lord Livermore (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her follow-up question. I am sure that the Green Party manifesto is a cracking read and I will endeavour to read it, if I have time. I note that she did not say that she was in favour of the national insurance increase, so I take it that she is supporting the investment without supporting the means to raise that investment.

The noble Baroness asked specifically about British national Jimmy Lai. His case is a priority for the UK Government. The Chancellor raised this Government’s concerns about the case during her visit to China. The UK has called for the national security law to be repealed and for an end to the prosecution of all individuals charged under it, including Jimmy Lai. We continue to call on the Hong Kong authorities to end their politically motivated prosecution and immediately release Jimmy Lai.