Covid-19 (Public Services Committee Report)

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Liddle (Lab) [V]]

I declare my interest as a Cumbria county councillor.

This report from our Public Services Committee, chaired by my noble friend Lady Armstrong, is one of the best things that I have ever read on the reform of public services. It sets out an ambitious agenda, drawing on the lessons of the Covid crisis and international experience. It shows what a cross-party consideration of these issues can achieve and how a remarkable degree of consensus on principles for reform can be established.

However, I am afraid my question is whether our politics is up to the challenge. We saw a very weak response from the Government to this report, both in their refusal to engage in the work of the committee and in their very weak response. The response popularised by the Government is the so-called levelling-up agenda, but we saw in the recent Prime Minister’s speech how empty that is. When you come out with a proposal for a £10 million plan for dealing with chewing gum on the streets, that shows that you do not really have sensible principles for reform in your head. It seems to be a splash of central government paint to cover up fundamental cracks in our society.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, in his condemnation of overcentralisation. Not only is that a very inefficient way of trying to tackle deprivation and complex problems of poverty at local level but it is, frankly, quasi-corrupt; it is getting near to pork-barrel politics, and that is not where we should be going.

We need fundamental reform in governance and funding. At present, the Government are levelling down, not levelling up: the proposal to withdraw the universal credit supplement will plunge many poor families further into poverty; the rejection of Sir Kevan Collins’s plan for educational catch-up was a very bad sign; and, despite all the talk, there is still no long-term funding solution for the NHS and social care.

Yet the present moment is an ideal time for a Government to make difficult tax and spending choices. Everyone is aware of the cracks exposed in public services, but at the moment we are seeing the Government allowing a manifesto commitment that they made on taxes to trump the lessons of Covid—and of course that commitment came well before the Covid crisis. The point about manifesto commitments applies equally to my own party: some in my party want to elevate the 2019 manifesto to semi-sacred status, but really we should be looking at the lessons of the Covid crisis and developing policies for public services along the lines of the committee’s report.

It is not enough to simply say, “Let’s spend more money”; we also have to have a credible agenda for reform. On reform of the NHS, we have to recognise that, despite its achievements, the NHS has failed so far to provide an equal opportunity for people to live a healthy and full life, and the emphasis has got to shift to prevention. In education, we have got to recognise that there are many problems of deprivation leading to poor educational opportunities and schools where standards need to be raised.

We know that people in public services work very hard, but they often work in silos. We have to be prepared to use the charity and the voluntary sectors and even, at times, the private sector, which we must see not as an enemy but as a potential partner. We have got to avoid hidebound, bureaucratic approaches that lead to inadequate data sharing, as we have heard.

We need an ambitious agenda of public service reform. I hope that a Labour Government would be prepared to follow the principles of this committee report, which are so sensible and so wise. I thoroughly commend the committee on its work.

Trade Agreements

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Thursday 15th July 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Liddle]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps Her Majesty’s Government are taking to ensure future trade agreements (1) are compatible with the terms of the United Kingdom-European Union Trade and Cooperation Agreement, and (2) take into account relevant regulatory changes by existing trading partners and international organisations.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) (Con)]

My Lords, the trade and co-operation agreement that we have agreed with the European Union does not require us or the EU to align rules with the other party. This ensures that the UK is in control of its own legislation and that we are free to make other free trade agreements around the world. All these trade agreements are capable of accommodating the consequences of regulatory changes by either party, now and into the future.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. The purpose of my Question was to explore the priorities and processes that determine the Government’s trade policy. In a way, what I am asking is the mirror image of the replies that he gave on the Northern Ireland protocol. As far as I can see, the Government’s trade policy is focused very much on the Asia-Pacific region, which brings benefits but not terribly big ones by comparison with the overwhelming importance of our trading relationship with the European Union. Do the Minister and the Government’s trade policy recognise that fact and that it will be the case for decades to come? Do the Government take into account that any divergences that we negotiate from EU standards in other trade agreements are bound to cause some friction in the EU relationship? Does he accept that they are going to make the Commission more reluctant to explore—

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

The noble Lord has asked his two questions.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

—the flexibility that he is seeking in the Northern Ireland protocol and does he want to build on the spirit of the trade and co-operation agreement to deepen the trading relationship with Europe?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, this is clearly an extremely complicated issue and a lot can be said on the subject. I am not sure that I entirely agree with the noble Lord’s underlying judgment. Our trade with the EU has been falling fairly consistently for a decade or two now. Our trade with Asia is rising. Most people think that that is likely to continue to be the case and that the strategic emphasis on Asia is right. As regards the relationship between our regulation and other countries’ regulation through FTAs, of course there are choices to be made, but they are the same choices that every country in the world engaging in an independent trade policy undertakes. They seem to manage it and I am sure that we will as well.

UK-EU Trade and Co-operation Agreement: Regions and Industrial Sectors

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that there are huge opportunities from Brexit, and we are taking those forward as set out in the Government’s legislative programme: a subsidy control Bill, a procurement Bill, a National Insurance Contributions Bill, a freeports programme and so on. These are all huge opportunities. It might be premature to do an immediate evaluation of the effect of all those before they have been introduced and brought into force, but of course impact assessments will go with the necessary legislation in this area.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is well aware of the excellent work of the Centre for European Reform under its director, Charles Grant. I would like his reaction to the latest report authored by its distinguished economist John Springford, published on 12 May, about the first quarter of trade data. The conclusion is that

“leaving the single market and customs union had reduced UK trade by 11 per cent in March 2021. That is on top of a 10 per cent hit to trade between the referendum and leaving the single market.”

He goes on to say that several more months have to pass before we can be certain of these impacts, but that

“it is becoming clearer that the impact cannot be dismissed as temporary.”

Does the Minister agree? Is he proposing to set in hand immediately a review of how these problems can be mitigated?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, I looked at the CER report with a lot of interest. It is one in a series of reports that has, I think, been subject to some methodological debate, at least. I am not sure I personally think it entirely valid to set up a kind of mock economy based on other parallel economies and draw conclusions from that, which I understand to be the methodology. I do not think we dispute that there have been changes in trade patterns in recent months, but as the ONS said in its report published on Tuesday:

“It is difficult to fully detangle the impact the coronavirus and EU exit had on UK and international trade while they are still having an influence.”


That remains the case.

Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Frost (Con)]

My Lords, the European Union has a number of SPS and veterinary agreements with third countries based on equivalence, not dynamic alignment. We continue to be open to an arrangement based on equivalence. At the moment, our understanding is that the European Union does not wish to negotiate such an arrangement.

[Lord Liddle (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Frost, to his distinguished place on the Front Bench; I have many good memories of working together on European issues in the Blair Government. When it comes to making the Northern Ireland protocol work more flexibly, the key question surely is about trust between the Commission and the British Government. Will he seize this golden opportunity today to affirm publicly that the British Government are not seeking to scrap the Northern Ireland protocol or negotiate any changes to the text that the Prime Minister himself agreed?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

I too have happy memories of working with the noble Lord in a rather different context a few years ago. Our clear position is that the protocol depends on the consent of all the people of Northern Ireland. As long as that consent is not maintained, it is difficult to see how the protocol can be genuinely durable. We are working to sustain the protocol, but in a pragmatic and proportionate fashion.

Customs Miscellaneous Non-fiscal Provisions and Amendments etc. (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Tuesday 19th January 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Liddle (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee which considered this instrument. It caught my attention not because I am in any way an expert on customs rules or the technicalities of these regulations but because it touches on the relationship between Northern Ireland and Great Britain post Brexit, which has been highly political and, I would argue, will be extremely sensitive in future.

It is only just over a year since the general election campaign, in which the Prime Minister declared before a group of Northern Ireland businesspeople that there would be no barriers to trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. This position was somewhat revised when Michael Gove presented the Government’s proposals for implementing the Northern Ireland protocol, when he said that there would be no checks between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, although there would inevitably be some checks the other way as a result of goods entering what would in effect be the EU single market.

It was then also stated that there was to be no customs border in the Irish Sea and no new infrastructure to enforce that border. As I understand it, £300 million or £400 million has been allocated to putting in place what can only be described as infrastructure, and therefore I really do not understand what the Government think their position is on this. Here we have a statutory instrument that specifically imposes some requirements and constraints on unfettered trade in goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain—I am sure the Minister will confirm that. There are goods for which there will not be unfettered trade as a result of this instrument. When it is said that there would be no customs border, it sounds to me as though the second part of this instrument is actually putting in place regulations for a customs border. I should like to get some clarity about what is happening: is wool being pulled over someone’s eyes or is it not?

The entry summary declarations from Northern Ireland to Great Britain will be required only for non-qualifying goods. I have two questions here: how significant are these non-qualifying goods in terms of total trade, and, secondly, who makes the qualifying decision? Is it a question for the United Kingdom customs authorities or for the joint committee between the EU and the UK that is there to implement the protocol? Was this matter fully discussed at the committee before this regulation was laid?

I have a second point on the customs question. The great merit of the trade and co-operation agreement is that there are no tariffs or quotas on trade between the EU single market, including Northern Ireland, and Great Britain, except in two circumstances: first, where goods do not qualify under the rules of origin, and, secondly, were there judged to be offences against keeping the level playing field in place, as provided for in the agreement. In that situation, one side or the other can impose tariffs. The question then becomes: what happens to these customs regulations were tariffs to be imposed?

The Minister may say that this is an entirely theoretical question, but the truth is it is not, because, within days of the passage of the trade and co-operation agreement, the Government let it be known that they are launching lots of reviews of regulations and workers’ rights, and making lots of moves which could be interpreted by the EU as deregulation and could be thought to be offending against the principles of the level playing field. We may end up in a difficult situation quite quickly, unless the Government act with prudence.

My purpose in speaking is to ask the Minister—politely, I hope—what he thinks about my questions, but also for us to start thinking about what the consequences of all this will be for the Northern Ireland-British relationship and the future of the United Kingdom.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Alderdice) (LD)]

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, has withdrawn from the speakers list. I call the next speaker, the noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Lord Liddle Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Liddle (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, for half a century I have campaigned for a united Europe. Today’s Bill finalises Britain’s divorce from the most successful peace project in history, undermining our future economic potential, our national security and our influence as a force for good in the world. For a social democrat, it signals a retreat from a social market economy governed by rules, standards and rights of which there is no equal in the world. Today is a victory for a poisonous nationalistic populism over liberal, rules-based internationalism; it is a very bad and, for me, a very painful day.

The deal before us is thin in substance but heavy in governance structures. It is designed to accommodate a British Government of ideological leavers who prioritise reclaiming a theoretical sovereignty over the practical benefits of deep co-operation. Yet the Prime Minister this morning had no visible plan to demonstrate how this theoretical sovereignty will deliver the promised new opportunities for the British people. Once the concept of Brexit was to complete the Thatcher revolution. What is it now? The Government will find themselves trapped between the politics of the red wall on one flank and the treaty provisions on a level playing field and tariff retaliation on the other.

But bad as this deal is, the alternative is far worse: not just a chaotic no deal but a lasting rupture with the European Union with a rogue Britain on its doorstep. I am as emotional in my European commitment as anyone in this House, but in serious politics we must base decisions on objective realities. That is why I believe this Bill must pass. The big question for Labour now is: what next? The European question in British politics has not been settled today. Today simply marks the end of one historical phase. To think we can forget about Europe is to live in a world of illusion.

By all means, Labour should no longer parrot the referendum arguments for remain; we must accept that argument. This deal does not resolve the complexities of Britain’s economic security and political ties to the continent. However, it contains the institutional structures on which a new and closer relationship can and should over time be built. As for the Brexiteers, they should heed Walpole’s famous warning: they are ringing their bells now, but soon they will be wringing their hands.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Monday 14th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have had three more requests to speak. I will take them in order: the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, and then the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes. I call the noble Lord, Lord Liddle.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, the serious point here is whether responsibility for economic development measures, which are the purpose of the shared prosperity fund, will be devised, agreed and undertaken with the consent of the devolved Administrations and devolved bodies in England.

Last time I spoke on this, the Minister claimed that the distribution of EU funds was decided in Brussels. That is not the case, as she well knows. As I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, would confirm on the basis of his great experience of European matters, the EU established criteria against which funds should be spent and rules for determining the areas of greatest need, which were based on the relative GDP of an area in the European Union—which areas were Objective 1, which were Objective 2, and all the rest. It did not decide on individual projects. That was never determined in the Commission.

The way individual projects were decided under the structural funds—as I think Conservative and Labour Governments have practised since the 1990s—was on a bottom-up principle, which I think the noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, probably started off agreeing with. If we were to have effective economic development, it had to have the buy-in of local areas, and of the nations when we had devolution. The best way to do this was through mechanisms that brought together locally elected people with businesspeople in bodies at local, regional and national levels to determine which projects should be prioritised.

As I understand it, the present proposal is that, instead of this devolved system, which has worked reasonably well over the past few decades, this Government want to take power to centralise decision-making. The precedent for this—as my noble friend Lord Adonis mentioned—is the towns fund, which is a completely centralised pork barrel dished out to Members of Parliament representing constituencies that the Conservative Party has recently won. That is what the towns fund is. I know from my own county, Cumbria, that Carlisle, Workington and Barrow will be recipients of towns fund money. Why? Yes, they have great needs, but it is because they have recently elected Conservative Members of Parliament.

UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I will undertake to do that, yes.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I regard this agreement in the joint committee as good progress on a difficult issue and I notice that, in his Statement yesterday, Michael Gove in fact paid tribute to the Vice-President of the European Commission on the pragmatic approach that the Commission had adopted. When it comes to the wider context of our relationship, does the Minister not agree that the Government are making things far worse by insisting on claiming that the European Union is trying to deny us of the sovereignty we have won as a result of Brexit? It is doing nothing of the sort. It is saying that you can have your sovereignty, but if you want to divert from the rules that we presently have, this represents unfair competition. If it represents unfair competition, you have to recognise that the special and privileged access to the single market that this trade deal will give you can be constrained. Why do the Government not simply recognise that fact, rather than harping on about sovereignty? We will have as much sovereignty to diverge as we want, but we cannot have our cake and eat it.

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government, as I said at the outset, have asked for nothing more than an agreement similar to the Canada free trade agreement and other agreements that the EU has struck with other nations. It is for the noble Lord to decide, if the EU wishes to refuse that request, whether that is reasonable or unreasonable.

Spending Review 2020

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Liddle (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I will make three quick points—three questions for the Minister. Following on from my noble friend Lord Hunt, does he really believe that another 5% increase in council tax in the coming year is a sustainable way of funding social care in the longer term? Council tax is very inequitable and regressive. Are the Government still committed to a long-term reform of social care, and when will they announce their plans?

Secondly, I know that the Minister is passionate about education, and in particular about educational inequality. Spending on schools is due to grow over three years by 3.9%, as against 10.4% for health and 5.7% for the Home Office. This is not giving a big priority to schools and, given the way in which children—and in particular deprived children—have fallen behind, this is not the right priority at this time.

Thirdly, does the Minister think that the Government are going about the levelling-up agenda in the right way? We have a proliferation of centrally governed funds, including the Levelling Up Fund, the Towns Fund, the Shared Prosperity Fund—I think I could list about 20 of them—for which local government has to bid. MPs will play a big role in choosing how the money is spent. Is this really a sensible way to go about things? Surely, we should go back to the previous commitments that the Government made for a fair funding review, so that local authorities can be funded on a much fairer basis according to their needs. At the same time, we should push forward with a proper agenda on devolution.

Summit of Democratic Governments

Lord Liddle Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot anticipate decisions about observers or people who might be invited to the G7 summit—that decision will be taken in due course. So far as girls’ education is concerned, that is something which we will work on in co-hosting the Global Partnership for Education with Kenya in June.

[Lord Liddle (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister appears to be putting his emphasis on the G7 and rather dismissing President-elect Biden’s interest in calling a summit of democracies. Have I got that wrong?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I have not mentioned President-elect Biden and his initiative on democracies—the noble Lord puts words that were never in my mouth. The Government will support any initiative from whatever quarter, including the President-elect, to promote democracy in the world.