(4 years ago)
Lords ChamberI now call Lord Taverne, with whom I think a connection has now been made.
My Lords, this has been another thought-provoking debate. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, for tabling an amendment that seeks to address an issue with current regulations affecting the use of gene editing and other precision breeding techniques in agriculture. Until 2018, there was uncertainty within the EU as to whether the living products of this technology should be subject to the same regulatory framework as genetically modified organisms, because the legal definition of a GMO was open to interpretation.
In 2018, the European Court of Justice ruled very clearly that these products must be treated in the same way as GMOs, even if the changes to their genetic material could have been produced by traditional methods, such as crossing varieties of the same species and selecting only the improved individuals. The UK Government intervened in the case to argue for a more scientific outcome. Our position was, and is still, that if the products of gene editing could have been produced naturally or by using traditional breeding methods, they should not be regulated as GMOs.
The Government are committed to taking a more scientific approach to regulation. Many scientific institutes, along with the breeding industry and some EU member states, such as Sweden, share our view that the current rules are unscientific and a solution is needed soon if we are to reap the economic and environmental benefits these technologies have to offer, such as more resilient crop varieties, reduced use of synthetic pesticides and more disease-resistant animals. The Government are committed to this task and to following due process, so that any necessary changes are properly informed and there is confidence in them.
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, for his examples of gene-editing research from around the world. The UK is at the forefront of genetic research and the Government are keen to build on this excellence. We want farmers to have access to crop varieties that are more resilient and require fewer synthetic pesticides.
I was struck by what the noble Lord, Lord Trees, said. He is one of the most respected veterinary surgeons in the country and, of course, our veterinary surgeon in this House. I was struck by the potential and the opportunities he outlined for breeding disease-resistant farmed animals. Again, I cannot believe that he would promote something that in any way compromised the welfare or interests of animals. I have to be careful, because two members of my family are in the veterinary profession, but I think it is one of the remaining very well-respected professions. Eminent scientific bodies in the EU and UK have advised that it is the characteristics of an organism and how it is used that determines whether it is a risk to human health and environment, not how it was produced.
It is important to highlight that gene-edited organisms resulting from changes to genetic material that would not arise naturally or from traditional breeding methods will need to be regulated as genetically modified organisms. They should not come under the gene-editing exception. It is important that the Government address this matter, both by making any necessary legislative changes and by ensuring public confidence and trust. It is important that these issues are heard and addressed transparently. To this end, I place on record that the Government will consult publicly on this issue. Defra is working on the details so that a consultation can be launched in the autumn. I have given firm assurances that the Government will consult on the issues raised by this amendment and I hope, therefore, that the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, will feel able to withdraw it.
My Lords, I have received no requests to speak after the Minister.
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate, particularly my fellow sponsors of the amendment. I also thank the Minister for his very full reply, which I shall read carefully and reflect on. It is clear that people on both sides of the fence feel strongly on the subject. I think we can all agree that the most important thing is to feed our grandchildren with the least possible damage to the environment and the future of the planet. Those in favour of the amendment believe that using precision techniques is the best and safest way to do this, while those against think that the tried and tested random mutation is better, albeit slower. I want to respond to one or two of the points raised.
One cannot put traditionally bred plants back in the bottle; nor can one stop any cross-fertilisation in the wild, but properly regulated precision breeding is just less likely to do so, in my view. However, I agree that the wider consultation is a really good idea, which is why this amendment specifically recommends it and why it seems that the Minister has picked up on it. As a Scotsman, I picked up the remarks about wheat in Scotland. I should tell the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, that in the 1990s, a field in Aberdeenshire held the world record for winter wheat yields for several years. It is the long summer days there.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, also made a comparison with human medicine, with reference to an article in Nature. However, it is very misleading in this discussion about which is the best between precision breeding and traditional breeding. The removal of undesirable off-target characteristics is what traditional breeders have been doing for millennia. This back-crossing, as it is known, has never been possible with human medicine for obvious reasons, so the arguments and comparisons do not apply. Of course, scientists are cautious about the use of gene editing in humans. Meanwhile, compared with precision breeding, traditional animal and crop breeding is much more likely to produce off-target characteristics to be removed. Precision breeding is, as I said, much safer and more accurate.
I repeat what I said in my opening speech to the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter: this amendment in no way affects the legislation on GMOs and is not the thin end of any wedge. Several noble Lords mentioned or hinted at this, but I am not sure how we are pre-empting parliamentary debate with this amendment. If that is so with this amendment, presumably all amendments over the past seven days are pre-empting debate. Surely it is the opposite: we are promoting debate. If the Bill is about only rewarding new ways of land management, presumably the debate that we have just had on trading standards is also trying to slide an amendment through by the back door. I will say no more, but we all know that the Bill will go back to the Commons, which can have its say over all or any of our changes.
On animal cruelty, also mentioned by the Minister, I strongly refute that gene editing could be considered more cruel than traditional breeding methods. Think of the results of traditional breeding from the wolf over the years, which include dogs with noses that are so squashed they can hardly breathe and Pekingeses whose eyes drop out. Meanwhile, the process of taking an egg from a chicken or fish and editing its genetic make-up is not in any way cruel. If, for instance with the salmon egg, you can increase its resilience to sea lice, as they are doing at Roslin, you would be doing both the salmon and its surrounding environment a heap of good as there would be no need for environmentally damaging treatment to remove the lice, which also harms the salmon.
With mammals, you also take an egg, treat it and re-insert it into the mother—a process no crueller than IVF in humans to help a mother have a much-wanted child. If, for instance, you thus increase resistance to PRRS in pigs, as again they are doing at Roslin, you are reducing the enormous suffering and deaths from that appalling respiratory disease. Of course, if you alter the genes of one animal, you should get hundreds or even thousands of their progeny with the same characteristics without touching them in any way. Breeding resistance to disease into future generations is so much more sensible than the ongoing use of antibiotics or medicines as the best way of helping animals live pain-free and disease-free lives.
I will stop there. But as this is the last time that I will speak in Committee, I want to thank the Minister for his extreme patience and professionalism, expertise in the subject and fluency at the Dispatch Box. I am full of admiration for the skill and extraordinary tolerance with which he has handled us troublesome Members, and I thank him for the conscientious way that he has dealt with the Bill. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
My Lords, we now come to the group beginning with Amendment 295. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate. Anyone wishing to press this or any other amendment in this group to a Division should make that clear in the debate.
(4 years, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, we now come to the group beginning with Amendment 218. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate. Anyone wishing to press this amendment to a Division should make that clear in debate.
Amendment 218
(5 years, 2 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, what is the position regarding inspectors? I ask that because I was approached by a young man in our local authority who has birds of prey and various wild animals that he takes to shows. He applied for a licence and was told that it would cost him nearly £1,000, but friends of his in neighbouring local authority areas are being charged between £150 and £400. I inquired of the chief executive of our local authority why this was and he told me that it was because it had no inspectors up to level 3 and that a veterinary inspection would be required. I then checked and was told that there were very few training facilities taking inspectors up to level 3—in fact, there is only one—and the courses are fully booked months ahead. In addition, they cost £900, according to the chief executive. Will the same thing apply to people who want a licence for puppies and kittens? Will they be charged for a veterinary inspection because there are no level 3 inspectors? If not, what will happen?
My Lords, perhaps I may comment very briefly. First, I commend these regulations, along with the deep personal commitment that my noble friend has always shown to improving the welfare of our country’s cats and dogs. Secondly, is progress being made towards the legislation that will raise the maximum penalty for animal cruelty from the present derisory six months to five years? Northern Ireland has already introduced five years as the maximum penalty, and I think that England needs to be brought into line as fast as possible with that other magnificent part of the United Kingdom. My noble friend is aware of the deep importance that the wonderful organisations that work for the welfare of our country’s cats and dogs attach to the raising of the penalty. If he has some progress to report, I know that they will be very pleased to hear it.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his time and that of his officials in providing a briefing on this important statutory instrument. I declare my interest as a vice-president of the LGA.
When we last debated puppy farming and the important measures and safeguards put in place, we raised the issue of regulating the import of puppies. The Government have now conducted their consultation and brought forward this SI to close the circle to help protect puppies and kittens. Although this is not a catch-all, and it is unlikely that any legislation will stop illegal practices, it goes a long way towards protecting young vulnerable animals against third-party sales.
Following the previous SI in October 2018, as the Minister has said, no puppy under eight weeks of age can be sold and it has to be shown with its mother by a licensed breeder when potential buyers come to view. This SI prevents non-licensed breeders selling puppies and kittens before they are six months old. This restriction covers pet shops and commercial dealers that are licensed dealers but not licensed breeders. This provides significant safeguards for the welfare of puppies and kittens.
Enforcement is to be carried out by local authorities who, as the Minister has stated, have powers to charge fees to cover their costs. This is extremely important as local authorities have been cash-strapped for a number of years. I am pleased that he was able to reassure us that local authorities will carry out training and recruitment of the necessary inspectors prior to the enforcement date of April 2020—although I am alarmed by what the noble Countess, Lady Mar, told us. It is also reassuring to know that better breeders can apply for a three-year licence and so avoid yearly costs.
As the noble Lord, Lord Trees, indicated, animal smuggling is a lucrative business, and the inspectors will need to be aware of what to look for when they visit premises where small animals are on sale to the public. My colleague and noble friend Lady Parminter, who is unfortunately unable to be with us this afternoon, asked the Minister in 2017 to make a commitment to increase the sanctions for animal cruelty; this has been referred to already. Can the Minister say why the Government have not responded? It is important that sanctions are sufficient to act as a realistic deterrent to those who mistreat animals and cause unnecessary suffering.
I am concerned that this legislation will not come into force until 2020. I hear what the Minister has said about that but I would like to press him on why this cannot be done sooner. Christmas comes between now and April 2020, and many families may succumb to the pressure to provide a kitten or puppy as a gift. It would be much better if pet shops were not able to display kittens or puppies in the run-up to Christmas, thus avoiding unnecessary misery and suffering. A new pet for Christmas is often followed by abandonment in January.
Can the Minister provide reassurance—the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, hinted at this—that a family discovering that its pet dog is expecting an unplanned litter of puppies will not find itself outside the law if it subsequently advertises its puppies for sale in a local post office, shop or newspaper? It would be somewhat perverse if this resulted in a prosecution; I would be grateful for the Minister’s comments on such a scenario.
Currently, Battersea takes in animals, rehomes them and charges a fee for rehoming, which helps to cover their costs. But there are others operating outside the law which set up unscrupulous charities, offering puppies to be rehomed and charging fees way above those charged by legitimate charities. These fraudulent charities bring in animals from abroad—including possibly Romania—for free. They are then able to charge as much as £200 for the so-called rehoming of the pet. For the SI to be effective, it is essential that this practice is stamped out.
I support this SI, which should help to safeguard the welfare of both kittens and puppies and ensure they have a better start in life but, like others, I am concerned about the prevention of online sales and look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
(6 years, 3 months ago)
Grand CommitteeMy Lords, my noble friend Lord Black, whose eloquence was in no way diminished by his sadly enforced sedentary position, has been a tireless champion of the interests of the nation’s pets throughout the 32 years that I have known him and observed his work admiringly. In a debate on these issues a few months ago, to which he was unable to contribute, I recalled a general election long ago when he devised, with some small help from me, a manifesto which set forth the commitments that our much-loved pets would require from political parties if they had the vote. I went on to suggest the kind of action for which they would be looking today.
Briefed by that excellent organisation, Cats Protection, feline electors would want, among other things, absolute guarantees that enhanced border checks for cats and kittens would be introduced, along with a central register of feline immigrants, and tick and tapeworm treatment to prevent the import of infections from abroad. Backed by the marvellous Dogs Trust, canine voters would insist on a major revision of the Pet Travel Scheme—now a very practical proposition with the approach of Brexit—to ensure more stringent tests for rabies. Dogs would be paw-to-paw with their feline colleagues on the need for swift and effective treatment for ticks and tapeworm.
I now think it very likely that the Tory cause has been significantly boosted by the recent introduction of regulations that provide for a new local authority licensing system. I am reliably informed that sounds of approval have emanated from dog baskets and hearth rugs throughout the land. The fine organisations that work on behalf of the nation’s cats and dogs—which include many mentioned by my noble friend, such as the much-admired Battersea Dogs & Cats Home—will be scrutinising the implementation of these regulations very carefully, noting their successes and highlighting any shortcomings.
The team running Cats Protection tell me that they attach great importance to ensuring that the ban on the sale of puppies and little kittens under eight weeks is effectively enforced. It is imperative that licences awarded to commercial operations make it absolutely clear that they are trading for profit, closing loopholes that were exploited under previous legislation. There is also a strong view that the regulations should be extended to cover, for example, rehoming organisations and sanctuaries.
Our pets think to themselves, “Will the new licensing system, with its star ratings and other features, be fully understood by fallible human beings”—the fallibility being underlined by my noble friend Lord Caithness—“and will they seek out pet sellers with good welfare standards, endorsed under the new system?”. If the Government give their full backing to the guidance that has been produced by a group of animal welfare charities and help promote it with vigour, they would move even further to winning the hearts of the nation’s pets as they ponder their votes.
(6 years, 8 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I hope that my noble friend Lord Caithness will not be displeased if I add a little on the issues of animal welfare that have featured so far in his debate, which he introduced so effectively.
There are so many types and breeds of animals for whose improved welfare we should strive as we prepare for Brexit and the prospect of stronger powers here at Westminster to use on their behalf, for they are vital to our welfare. Our domestic pets deserve the highest place on the agenda for improvement and change. They give love and friendship to so many. They serve disabled people with unstinting loyalty, giving them freedom to work and enjoy recreations that would otherwise be denied to them. As people live longer and need close companionship, our pets will become ever more important.
Many great men have recognised the significance of the bond between humankind and the animals we take into our homes. Dogs, cats and budgerigars vied for Winston Churchill’s considerable affections. Indeed, if he had had his way, pigs—whom he greatly admired—would also have been invited to join the Chartwell menagerie, within careful limits.
I personally know of no one to whom our domestic pets in general and cats in particular matter more than my noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood. Unfortunately, he is precluded from speaking in this debate by engagement elsewhere. I speak for him as well as myself. Years ago, during a general election campaign in the Thatcher era, my noble friend and I amused ourselves by drawing up a manifesto setting out the measures that would be needed to attract the support of animals if these dear creatures had the vote. What would have to be in such a manifesto today to get cats to put their cross against a Tory candidate? They would rightly look for stringent measures to keep dread diseases away from our shores. Enhanced border checks of cats and kittens are required, along with a central register of feline immigrants and tick and tapeworm treatment to prevent the import of foreign infections.
No less important to fluffy voters would be a crackdown on appalling breeding practices that bring to birth cats sentenced to a lifetime of pain by disfiguring features such as a flat face. It is time to stop the unregulated breeding of cats, which our country has hitherto permitted. The Government should back a public education campaign to highlight the sheer wickedness of insupportable breeding practices. Next, cats parted by misfortune from their owners would want to be reunited as quickly as possible with them. In microchipping, we have the answer to that devastating separation. It should be made compulsory. As for other menaces that cats want curbed, they would welcome the forthcoming consultation on air weapon licences and the prospect that fewer of their number will be peppered cruelly by shots fired by guns for which, at the moment, no licences are required in England.
The wise election candidate in search of votes from domestic animals would give strong backing to a revision of the pet travel scheme, known generally as the pet passport. It has many benefits, but dogs as well as cats need action to deal with the sharp rise in the number of very young, badly abused immigrants. Many puppies arrive in Britain unvaccinated, having travelled in appalling conditions, to be sold online. Investigations over the years by the Dogs Trust have shown how puppies, sometimes under the age of 15 weeks, are often sedated to smuggle them across borders and how data on passports is falsified. The abuse of the pet passport must be tackled urgently, with tough new penalties on illegal trading. Too many of these poor creatures are sold from puppy farms here in the UK via normal-looking homes which are, in fact, just a shopfront for unscrupulous puppy-dealing rings. Young canine voters would welcome what has already been done to crack down on irresponsible advertising in this area but would want more to be done to educate their potential owners, especially at this time of year, about the dangers—and to get potential owners to ensure that they are buying a healthy, happy and vaccinated puppy from a responsible breeder.
Some 17 million cats and dogs in every part of our country bring joy to nearly half of all households. The vast majority of them are loved and cared for by responsible owners, but there are some whose start in life is cruel, who become stray or abandoned, and who are mistreated or injured. I look forward to hearing from my noble friend, who I know is a champion of their interests, what the Government are doing to improve their welfare. I hope that I have almost persuaded noble Lords that our much-loved, sentient pets should be given the vote.
(6 years, 11 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, the noble Lord has probably hit on some of the issues that I was discussing with these organisations. How do we best frame in regulations the very things that your Lordships feel strongly about, yet also the advances that we can have in not only medical but veterinary science? It is important that we get that right.
My noble friend’s comments on the Government’s intention to strengthen the Animal Welfare Act will be widely welcomed. When will the Government introduce training for local authority inspectors of animal breeding establishments, as foreshadowed in an announcement which the Government made in February?
My Lords, my noble friend has remarked on another very important point. Under these proposals we will seek to improve the ability of local authorities to, as I said, root out the bad. We want to train and work with local authorities so that they have the experience to ensure that, when they license an establishment, they are confident that it adheres to the high animal welfare standards that we all desire.
(7 years, 5 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, what my noble friend said is precisely part of the work of this consistency framework, to make it easier for people to recycle and to make better understood what can be recycled. I very much hope that, as we proceed, ever more can be recycled from products.
Does my noble friend have any plans to set forth from his office with a plastic bag in his hand and a camera crew in tow to pick up litter in and around Westminster, and set a fine example to the nation?
My Lords, if my noble friend had been with me in Ipswich for the national spring clean, he would have been with the honourable Member for Ipswich and the Labour leader of the borough council. We picked up an enormous amount of litter from around Ipswich. I should say—my officials will not like this—that we visited a fast-food store not too far away with a bag of litter and presented it to the very agreeable manager, who realised that more needed to be done.
(7 years, 7 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, there are no current plans, but imprisonment is not the only penalty, and I think that is important. The increase to an unlimited fine, community service orders and orders disqualifying people from ownership of dogs and animals for life are among the range of penalties, which I think are also very important if we are to address this matter.
Do the Government intend to issue updated guidance under the Animal Welfare Act to bear down more decisively on the appalling practice of puppy farming?
My Lords, on what my noble friend has said about puppy farming and indeed, other matters to do with animals, it is very important that the Animal Welfare Act is applied. It is one of the most advanced pieces of legislation in the world. It was reviewed in 2010-11 and, obviously, I and my honourable friend Sam Gyimah in the other place would consider and review anything that we felt was not addressing the situation.
(9 years, 8 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, we have worked with the Post Office, Royal Mail and the unions on the legislation that went through this year. Largely, they were extremely happy with what we did and are very pleased that microchipping is coming in.
Does my noble friend agree that perhaps in retrospect he was a little dismissive of our long-standing and much loved dog licensing scheme? Disraeli introduced it in 1874 and the cost—7s 6d—was exactly the same 113 years later. Of how many government schemes can this be said?
My Lords, perish the thought that I should be dismissive. My noble friend put his finger on the problem, which was that the price had not gone up and therefore it became uneconomic to continue the scheme.
(10 years, 9 months ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, I come from a family of proud dog lovers. My long standing personal friend and noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood, to whom we are all deeply indebted for this debate, has spoken eloquently of his lifelong devotion to cats. There is ample room in the human heart for both. Churchill regarded both cats and dogs with great affection and from time to time brought them together in happy co-existence. During his peacetime premiership, he had for some while the exclusive companionship of a fine poodle, named Rufus. Then in October 1953, a pretty black kitten was found on the steps of No. 10 where, over the years ahead, under Conservative, Labour, and coalition Governments, a succession of felines would turn up. The 1953 kitten rushed to Churchill and jumped on his knee to begin deep, contented purring. “It has brought me luck,” Churchill declared. “It shall be called Margate,” he added, without further explanation. He presumably had in mind the seaside town where he had recently delivered a triumphant speech to the Conservative Party conference. Rufus went off to bed in a sulk, but swiftly came to terms with the new situation and contented to share his world famous master with the new arrival.
It is fitting that we should discuss in the same debate the welfare of two animals that have given so much companionship to so many people, and will continue to do so. They all deserve the best possible care, but as my noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood has shown so distressingly, today too many of them are the recipients of harshness and cruelty, not love and affection.
The Question before us happily relates to the entire United Kingdom and so provides an opportunity for me to make brief reference to Northern Ireland, a part of our country to which I am particularly attached. Animal welfare issues come within the ambit of the Northern Ireland Assembly, but that is no reason to exclude them from consideration here. At every level there is much that Belfast can learn from Westminster and vice versa. A new chapter in the history of animal welfare in the province opened last year with the implementation of the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011, which introduced—very belatedly it must be said—the major new legislative framework of protection created in England and Wales by the landmark 2006 Act. Enforcement of the law, which had previously rested with the police, has passed to Northern Ireland’s 26 local councils. They have banded together to appoint five—just five—animal welfare officers.
There is much for the group of five to do. A rising tide of abuse and neglect is plainly apparent to the Ulster Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the world’s second oldest animal welfare charity, founded in 1836 and to whose work I pay tribute. All sections of the community have always been served with unwavering dedication both in times of turmoil and in the better times that now exist. The USPCA backs wholeheartedly the calls being made throughout the country for action in schools, particularly primary schools, to equip the young with a proper sense of responsibility towards family pets.
Some appalling recent cases of cruelty have been uncovered by the USPCA. For example, a single family in North Down now faces some 200 charges arising from the attacks it unleashed first on badgers and subsequently on pet cats, using dogs including illegal pit bull terriers. In its most recent report, the USPCA expressed profound concern about the increasing number of puppy farms, which nothing is likely to halt while advertising on the internet remains unregulated. As an officer of the USPCA put it to me:
“The sums to be made are astronomical and public awareness is low”.
As regards cat breeders, no arrangements for inspection exist. The USPCA states that:
“A kitten would have to die for reasons attributable to the breeder before any action could be considered by a welfare officer”.
Will the new legislation make a significant difference? Will there be an increase in prosecutions on a similar scale to that recorded in England and Wales after the 2006 Act? The early signs are not encouraging. In 2012-13, just one person was successfully prosecuted. The USPCA is concerned that undue use is being made of improvement notices in cases where prosecutions are needed. But in the ineffable prose in which our public authorities delight, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives, known as SOLACE, looks serenely ahead. It has a project board that,
“continues to hold stakeholder events to build relationships and an understanding of roles and responsibilities and to discuss a wide range of animal welfare issues”.
A rather more vigorous approach would be preferable.
The Northern Ireland Executive need to instil a far greater sense of urgency and purpose into the civil servants and officials with whom they are so generously supplied. I hope that my noble friend the Minister, who is devoting so much time and care to the welfare of cats and dogs in this part of the country, will encourage Northern Ireland Ministers to follow his fine example. He might, in particular, press them to consider putting the USPCA on the same footing as the RSPCA as regards investigatory and enforcement powers. Let us do things in the same way throughout our country where that is the best course.