Defence: Better Defence Acquisition

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support. I have read his excellent, well thought-through letter to the Economist. I share the noble Lord’s desire that this important subject should be above politics. The Secretary of State and my honourable friend the Procurement Minister are keen to brief Peers, individually or as a group, and to hear any suggestions, ideas or criticisms that anyone has. We want to get this right and, as the noble Lord said, it is above politics.

We have not yet decided the proportion of the defence budget but I will get back to the noble Lord when we have. As to the question about the United States, I have seen correspondence with our counterparts in Washington. There is a small amount of concern but they are approaching this issue in a positive way. They think that they could learn a lot from us. We will be the first country to do this. The noble Lord will be well aware of what happened down at Aldermaston. The United States feels that it has a lot to learn and has approached relations with us constructively. Again, I am quite happy to discuss outside the Chamber what the Americans have raised. On the whole, they have been very positive.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for repeating the Statement and thank him and his officials for replying to some of the detailed questions that I raised in the Queen’s Speech debate. I had two specific questions for my noble friend. I asked what restrictions would be placed on the GOCO’s freedom to operate, specifically between buying off the shelf and sustaining our national strategic capabilities. The reply that I received is:

“As now, MOD and HMT will continue to approve procurement business cases. As part of this, MOD will assess and agree the proposed procurement strategy, which will enable the department to take issues such as these into account”.

If the MoD and HMT are going to second-guess what the GOCO is doing all the time, it is difficult to discern what freedoms the GOCO will actually have. Indeed, that is the very fundamental point of the GOCO.

Secondly, I asked what cognisance the GOCO would take of regional employment issues and the need to encourage SMEs, rather than support our major national contractors. The reply was:

“We have no reason to believe a GOCO would need to move the new organisation to different sites so it is unlikely to have any major impact on regional employment”.

With respect, I must say that that was not my question. I was not suggesting that the sites of the GOCO organisation or operation would have to be moved. I was asking whether the GOCO would be able to take into account the regional employment situations that arise in defence procurement. Will it have that flexibility?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on the outstanding questions that he asked during the Queen’s Speech debate. There were quite a lot of them and I was not able to answer them at the time or we would have been here even later than we were. However, I took them back to the department and the officials there were impressed by the depth of the questions. I thought it might be helpful to the House to make copies of the questions and the answers, so I have brought along copies which I am happy to distribute afterwards to any noble Lord because my noble friend’s questions were spot-on. I hope that, apart from the one question that was not properly answered, we have made a big effort to answer all the other questions accurately.

Taking my noble friend’s second question about regional employment issues first, the proposal will not address any specific issues of regional employment policy. The policy on this, as with other matters, will remain with central government and the Ministry of Defence.

As for second-guessing the GOCO, my noble friend will be aware that we will need to make decisions about what the Armed Forces need and then the GOCO will see them through.

Armed Forces: Autonomous Weapon Systems

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

Does my noble friend agree with the comments of a senior RAF officer who said very recently that come 2020 the Royal Air Force would be something like 50% manned aircraft and 50% VAV or drones?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, remotely piloted aircraft systems are likely to form part of the future force mix, as they may offer advantages in endurance and range. However, the dynamic complexity of fighter-versus-fighter-type missions does not favour remote control. Therefore, a wholly unmanned force is unlikely to be achievable or desirable in future. Studies suggest a likely combat air force mix of two-thirds manned and one-third remotely piloted in around the 2030 timeframe.

Armed Forces: Long-Term Care

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord asks an important question. I assure him that my department takes this issue very seriously. The continued care of veterans injured while in the Armed Forces remains a key component of the military covenant. When personnel leave the services, responsibility for their healthcare is transferred from the Ministry of Defence to the NHS. We are working closely with the Department of Health to ensure that any service-related medical needs are met throughout their civilian lives. For example, the NHS is introducing national specialist prosthetic and rehabilitation centres to address the long-term needs of amputee veterans. It also recognises concerns about their mental health and is introducing a nationwide network of new veteran-focused mental health outreach and assessment teams.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

Could my noble friend give any breakdown between regulars and reservists in the figures he gave earlier? In their ongoing situations, is there any differential between the resources and support given to regulars and that given to reservists?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I can answer my noble friend. In Iraq, of the 222 UK casualties listed as having serious or very serious injuries, 25, that is 11%, were members of the Reserve Forces. In Afghanistan, of the 591 UK casualties listed, 22—4%—were reservists. Those reservists who sustained wounds or illness while mobilised will be retained in service prior to being demobilised and returning to work, to ensure that they receive the best possible welfare support and care and are eligible for the full range of Defence Medical Services care. Once reservists have been demobilised, their local reserve unit continues to ensure that they have access to welfare services.

Afghanistan

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I join my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, in their tributes to our Armed Forces.

We welcome the significant drawdown that is planned for 2013. Can my noble friend reconfirm that our forces during 2013 and 2014 will be focused increasingly on training and mentoring and less on combat missions?

There are four questions that I would like my noble friend to answer; I appreciate that he may well prefer to write to me rather than answering at the Dispatch Box. First, he referred to the discussions with our allies. Does he have any idea of the percentage reductions in the US forces during 2013, compared with our reductions? Secondly, there is no mention in the Statement of equipment withdrawal. Will he indicate the latest thinking and timing regarding our equipment withdrawal? Thirdly, allied military expenditure clearly represents a significant percentage of Afghanistan’s GDP—something like 15%, I believe. Is the Minister aware of any efforts being made by the international community to stimulate or encourage the Afghan economy post-2014? Fourthly, and the Minister will probably prefer to make this statement in writing, will he please confirm and make a clear statement on the Government’s attitude and responsibility towards interpreters and their dependants, where quite clearly we have a considerable degree of moral responsibility?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I reconfirm to my noble friend Lord Lee of Trafford that more and more members of our Armed Forces will take on a training and mentoring role. As the Statement said, 80% of operations are now led by the Afghan national security forces. I have been out there and seen for myself the mentoring and how successful our Armed Forces and our allies are in training up the Afghans.

I will write to my noble friend but, in answer to his questions, so far as I am aware the US forces’ reduction discussions are still taking place. I understand that the Prime Minister spoke to President Obama yesterday, but I will write to my noble friend on this as I am not aware of the exact figures.

Equipment withdrawal is an issue that has come up a lot in the House. We are making quite good progress on the different routes through which equipment would be withdrawn; it will not just be through Pakistan or the northern routes. Obviously some would come back directly by air, while some would go directly by air to countries in the Middle East. A lot of work is going on regarding this issue. Decisions about gifting and what to do with equipment will be made on a case-by-case basis, using the principle of operational priority and value for money to the UK taxpayer. We are reviewing our policies of gifting to ensure that any gifted equipment is appropriate and follows parliamentary, Treasury and National Audit Office rules, but obviously a number of bits of kit will be gifted. Work on managing the recovery of UK equipment is under way. Redeployment began in earnest, and as planned, on 1 October.

My noble friend asked me about efforts to stimulate the economy post-2014. I know that the international community, as the Statement said, has donated a great deal of money to the Afghan Government for that very end, and DfID has a number of different initiatives in Afghanistan.

With regard to the attitude towards interpreters, I have the line on that somewhere, but I assure my noble friend that we stick by our interpreters and will do everything to safeguard their security.

Armed Forces: Reserve Forces

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Freeman for securing this debate and for all the work he has done with the Reserve Forces over the years.

To achieve the challenging reserves target, we need to do two principal things—first, to raise the profile and esteem of the reserves and, secondly, to bring employers on board in a positive way. We need to think somewhat outside the box. Regarding raising the profile and esteem, the name, the TA, is somewhat dated and old hat. I suggest something more exciting—perhaps something along the lines of “Royal Volunteer Reserve”. It would be marvellous if a specific member of the Royal Family could act as champion for our new reserves, with perhaps an annual event at Buckingham Palace to thank those who have given outstanding support.

Locally, the high sheriffs could play a role across the country. I was a high sheriff and, in my year, I could easily have devoted a substantial amount of my time to the promotion of the reserves in my county of Greater Manchester. After all, they had a historic role in raising forces in the old days. We should consider extending the Armed Forces covenant. I am not too hopeful, but the Treasury should adopt a certain generosity of approach to the expenses of reserves, particularly things such as travel expenses for those who come from a rural community. I would like the Tickets for Troops scheme to be extended. Perhaps the reserves should have some form of national discount card. There should be a unit in the Ministry of Defence focused on the reserves in terms of media and PR, liaising and in partnership with regional and local media.

We need to endeavour to demonstrate to employers the benefits that reserves will bring to their businesses in terms of skills and leadership. Perhaps the state might consider paying employers’ national insurance contributions. I suggest some form of kitemark, or something similar, for good practice. As part of a company’s CSR, corporate social responsibility, it should indicate in its annual report—particularly larger companies such as plcs—its attitude to the Reserve Forces and the number whom they employ. Similarly, large professional firms could adopt this approach. We should encourage professional bodies, government departments and local authorities to publicise that information. I accept that it is much more difficult for smaller firms to release key personnel, and I therefore hope that we adopt a policy of more generous—particularly more flexible—compensation along the lines of the very successful Australian approach. On the legislative front, we will probably need to make it an offence to discriminate against reservists in recruitment.

I should like to ask my noble friend a number of questions, to which he may well wish to reply in writing. Does he agree with the Duke of Westminster, who stated that from his experience, overseas employers—he mentioned the French, Japanese and Americans—have a more encouraging attitude to reservists than UK employers generally have? Does he further agree that decisions on the future of individual TA centres should be made in consultation with the Reserve Forces and cadets associations, not just by Defence Estates? Will my noble friend comment on the progress of the review of the National Employer Advisory Board, which we were told should be completed later this year? When will we be informed of the outcome? Will he also update the House following the Prime Minister’s announcement, as part of Armed Forces Day, on the progress of the plan to open 100 new cadet units in state-funded secondary schools by 2015? Clearly, cadet units are an obvious and natural pathway for young people towards our Reserve Forces.

Finally, is the Minister aware—this is my understanding—that although we have a significant flow of inquiries to join the reserves, there is actually relatively little enlistment because of a number of bureaucratic blockages?

Defence Equipment and Support

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, this is a very short Statement for a huge issue. I remember taking two Bills through the other place nearly 30 years ago to privatise the Royal Ordnance factories and contractorise the dockyards, which I understand is probably the best example of a GOCO. I want to query the Minister’s response that we are unlikely to need legislation. I would be grateful if he could further explore that.

I have four specific questions. First, who is studying the comparative benefits of the two main options? Are they just MoD officials or are consultants involved as well, and what is the cost of those consultants? Secondly, I refer to the claim that,

“resources and commercial appetite constrain our ability to pursue these two options”.

I really do not understand what commercial appetite constraints are. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also raised this point in his remarks. Thirdly, is either option likely to involve civilian redundancies over and above the 25,000 already being targeted by the ministry? Finally, are there any examples of other countries effectively outsourcing their supplier of military equipment in this way?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that this is a really big issue. I had only a short time in which to prepare for this Statement and that made me realise what a big subject this is. It may be an area on which we could have a debate in the House, and I would encourage my noble friend to go through the usual channels to see whether a debate could be set up. He asked why no legislation was necessary for this. I asked officials about that and their advice was that it is very unlikely—but just in case it is needed, all the building blocks are being put in place. No decisions on the future operating model of DE and S have yet been taken. The GOCO may require legislation, but the issue will be addressed in due course.

I cannot answer my noble friend’s question about whether it was just MoD officials involved in the decision-making process, but I understand that there will be no additional redundancies as a result of these changes. I am pretty certain that that is the correct answer.

Army 2020

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I share the noble Lord’s respect for the Welsh regiments. The CGS, supported by his command team, has made very hard choices in deciding where reductions are made to bring the Army size down to 82,000, and the Army has rigorously applied a set of criteria to make these difficult decisions. They were based on capability, recruiting demography both now and in the future, appropriate national representation and solutions that do not undermine regimental principles, established in the last round of changes in 2004. Previous mergers and deletions were also taken into account, to ensure that decisions were seen as fair by as many people as possible.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, from these Benches I join the earlier tribute to the Tornado crews lost in Scotland and to those soldiers killed in Afghanistan. Perhaps I may say that just having a few minutes to question this important Statement is extremely unsatisfactory and almost an insult to our Armed Forces. I hope that before too long we will have a proper debate on our Armed Forces and that my noble friend will discuss this with the Leader of the House. It is somewhat ironic, I would suggest, that in the Statement reference is made to “an increasingly uncertain world”, yet today we are talking about reducing significantly the size of our Regular Forces.

On the question of the reserves, I have three specific questions. First, how many members of the Regular Forces does he expect will be involved in training 30,000 new reservists? Secondly, does he believe that in future we will probably need a specific covenant to protect our Reserve Forces from things such as totally unhelpful and unprincipled employers? Thirdly, where will all this new training be done, given that we seem to have a significant problem with our bases? If I interpret correctly the article today in The Times about bringing back our forces from Germany, this seems to be on the backburner, with a question mark over it.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the possibility of a debate and I would certainly welcome that. I will have a word with our Chief Whip and see if it would be possible later in the year. My noble friend mentioned the reserves and employers. The Ministry of Defence is committed to working with employers to understand their views on its use of reservists, the impact of legislation and a better understanding of what an employer can realistically sustain in future. We will publish a consultation paper in autumn setting out our proposals. Following that, we will be able to make informed decisions early next year on the terms and conditions of service, employer engagement, the Government’s commitments as an employer and any legislation necessary.

My noble friend asked how many people would be involved in training. I cannot come up with a specific figure, but this is a good example of where integration of the reserves with the regular Army will be so important and we will use a number of the reserves to help with the training. As for where they would train, we have not yet decided what will happen in Germany, but there are very good training areas there which we might continue to use after 2020. The SDR talks about bringing all our troops back from Germany by 2020. As my noble friend knows, there are some brilliant training areas in this country. He and I have been to Salisbury Plain, Otterburn and lots of different training areas. In Wales, I spent a lot of my time in the Army at Sennybridge with its beautiful countryside. So there are a lot of training areas and I hope that answers all my noble friend’s questions.

Defence: Trident Replacement Programme

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we are committed to retaining the minimum credible nuclear deterrent capability necessary to provide effective deterrents, and we keep that under constant review. At the same time, we are working multilaterally for nuclear disarmament and to counter nuclear proliferation. We believe that this is the right balance between our commitment to long-term disarmament and our responsibilities to ensure our national security. I do not accept the noble Lord’s point about stealth. So far as concerns a public debate, a main gate is not expected until about 2016. A decision about how best to consult will be made nearer that time.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I join these Benches in the earlier tribute. How seriously is my noble friend’s department studying an alternative to Trident? Where is that study up to? Does he not find it rather strange that the Secretary of State for Defence never seems to refer to that study? In this context, would he like to comment on the recent article in Der Spiegel which indicated that Israel was arming its submarine Cruise capability with nuclear capacity?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the purpose of the study is to help the Liberal Democrats to make the case for an alternative to the Trident system, as agreed in the coalition programme for government. I understand that the Cabinet Office is leading the review and it is being overseen by the Minister for the Armed Forces. It will report by the end of the year to the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister. The Secretary of State did mention it in his UQ in the other place yesterday; it was mentioned several times. On the point about Israel, we are aware of the widespread assumption that Israel possesses nuclear weapons but note that the Israeli Government have refused to confirm this.

Defence Budget

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I should like first to join these Benches in the earlier tribute.

Now that the MoD budget is on much more of an even keel, and given the long-term nature of so many MoD contracts—10 years is not particularly long, and my noble friend talked about the 10-year line—would it not make sense now for the political parties to try to get together to agree a common approach to the level of defence spend? Would it not make a lot of sense if that could be achieved?

I appreciate that my noble friend may not be able to answer all my specific questions at this stage, so perhaps he will write to me. First, have there been any changes to profit margins on non-competitive contracts? Secondly, on the reductions in the civilian workforce that he talked about, how many reductions have taken place so far? I know that there is an aspiration to reduce by about 30,000, but how many specific redundancies have taken place?

My noble friend referred to the offshore patrol vessels that have apparently been leased. Leasing is normally quite an expensive operation. When were they originally leased and what are the financial terms of the purchases? Further, are any other naval vessels currently being leased?

On the question of the NAO review, can my noble friend give an indication of how long the work will take and when publication might come through? Finally, will the likely considerable costs of withdrawing equipment from Afghanistan come out of the normal defence budget or will they be treated as, in effect, the equivalent of urgent operational requirements?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend. He has asked quite a few questions and I will not be able to answer them all here, but I will write to him. He asked first whether I think it is a good idea for all the parties to get together. I certainly have very good relations with my shadows and I am very happy to take this back to the department and come back to my noble friend. It is an excellent suggestion, and it is one that he has made in the past. I shall let him know how I get on.

I cannot give my noble friend an instant answer to his questions about profit margins and reductions in the civilian and Armed Forces staff. He also asked whether we are leasing any other vessels which might be bought. Off the top of my head I think that HMS “Protector” might fall into that bracket, but I do not want to be held to that answer and I will write to my noble friend. I am not sure how long the NAO report will take, but I am happy to write to him about that as well.

Defence: Carrier Strike Capability

Lord Lee of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, I join these Benches in the earlier tribute. Today’s Statement marks another sad chapter in the saga of the aircraft carriers. It ill beholds the Opposition to crow and to adopt the pose that they did today in their heavy questioning.

I have three questions. First, there appears to have been some change of heart or change of plan over the second carrier. My understanding was that the second would be mothballed, or possibly even sold; now it seems to be planned to be operated much more in tandem with the first carrier.

My second question is about the overall cost of the carriers. Where are we up to with our latest forecast of the cost of the two carriers? Thirdly, will my noble friend say a little more about interoperability, particularly with the French carriers?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we have an aspiration to use the second carrier, but this will be an issue that the next SDSR, probably in 2015, will have to consider, particularly in the light of the cost of crewing it, which we estimate to be about £60 million a year. I can assure my noble friend that it is our aspiration to have the second carrier ready to assist when the first carrier goes in for a refit, or for any other reason.

I feel uncomfortable giving my noble friend figures for the overall cost of the carriers. We are in discussions with industry and it would be wrong to reveal too many of those figures.

My noble friend asked finally about interoperability. The key intention agreed by the UK and France, which my noble friend mentioned, has always been to co-ordinate operations to ensure that when one country has a carrier in maintenance, the other has one available. Our ability to deliver this assurance will be enhanced should we ultimately decide to bring the second carrier into service. The US has made it clear that carrier availability, rather than cross-decking or the capability of aircraft, is the key issue for it.