Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

Lords amendments 26, 27 and 108, with which the Government disagree, relate to constituency limits and staff costs. I ask the House not to support amendments tabled by hon. Members to Lords amendments 20, 55, 59, 75 and 99.

After the Bill was last seen by the House, during consideration in the House of Lords, the Government undertook a further six-week consultation with interested parties—on part 2 of the Bill—that built upon the Government’s already considerable engagement with many campaigning groups. During the consultation, which took place between Second Reading and the Committee stage of part 2 of the Bill in the Lords, the Government held detailed, important and exhaustive—and sometimes exhausting—talks with some 50 organisations. Those discussions informed the Government amendments, with which the Lords agreed. As the House will have discerned from my opening remarks, many amendments—100 in total, encompassing 20 substantive issues—to part 2 have returned from their lordships, and we propose to accept all but three of them. The amendments, agreed in consequence of our discussions in the Lords, represent a considerable body of work undertaken in that House, and we are grateful to their lordships for that work.

The changes are designed to address the practical concerns raised by third parties, while preserving the important principles of transparency that underpin part 2. The amendments reduce the burden on smaller third parties who campaign at elections, ease the transition to the new regime and clarify the regulatory rules. That last point is important, because it became clear during the consultation that concerns often stemmed from a lack of awareness of the existing rules in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000.

As the House will recall, the PPERA established a framework for the regulation of non-party campaigning at elections, and many of the representations derived from an objection not to the Bill, but to how the PPERA rules, in the view of those making the representations, would have worked. This debate has enabled us to introduce amendments that meet many of the concerns raised, to clarify how charities and campaigners can legitimately campaign on policies and issues without falling subject to the election law regulatory regime and, where they may fall to be regulated, to reduce the burdens of compliance and ensure that small-scale campaigns are exempt from that regime.

The House will recall that before the Bill was sent to the Lords, we made significant changes to it here. In particular, we returned to the definition of “controlled expenditure” in the PPERA—in other words, expenditure

“reasonably regarded as intended to…promote or procure the electoral success”

of a party or candidate—but narrowed it slightly so as not to include the additional limb about enhancing the standing of parties or candidates. We had, therefore, already made some clarifications to the Bill before we sent it to their lordships.

Of those changes, the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, one of the largest and most prominent umbrella bodies representing charities and the voluntary sector, said:

“The government’s commitment to abandon the change to the test of what constitutes non-party campaigning is a significant step in the right direction.”

[Pete Wishart]

The Leader of the House knows, because we have told him often enough, that on these issues we actively encourage the participation of the third sector in Scotland. In the light of that, why have the Scottish Government not received one reply from this Government regarding the Bill, particularly concerning its effect on our referendum and on Scottish charities?

[Mr Lansley]

The Bill, of course, will have no effect on the referendum in September. I do not recall receiving a letter from Ministers in the Scottish Government, although I do recall receiving letters from the First Minister of Wales, which I replied to. If Ministers have received any such letters, I shall gladly take advice on what the reply has been.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 9th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am very glad to acknowledge the excellent work of the Theatre Royal in Plymouth, for which the Government provide more than £1 million a year via Arts Council England. We also support Attik Dance Ltd, the Institute of Digital Art and Technology, the Plymouth Arts Centre and the Barbican theatre, all of which are in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

The issue of the distribution of arts funding is inevitably complex, but the Arts Council is seeking to achieve a better balance between public funding and lottery investment throughout the country. I cannot promise a debate at present, but other Members may share my hon. Friend’s interest in the issue, and may wish to ask the Backbench Business Committee to allocate time for a debate on it. My hon. Friend will recall that the Opposition Front Bench chose arts and the creative industries as the subject of a debate in the middle of last year.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May I appeal to the Leader of the House not to allow any further debates on the commemoration of the first world war? I am sure that much of the nation has been appalled by attempts to politicise the event over the past week, and by the unedifying trench warfare that has emerged between the Government and the Labour Front Bench. May I appeal to both Front Benches to cool it, to show some dignity and respect, and to ensure that the centenary is marked sensitively and with decorum?

[Mr Lansley]

I felt that the debate that took place in the House late last year exemplified the importance of commemorating the events of 100 years ago. Although I cannot confirm that there are plans for another debate on the subject, I can say that there is probably a case for further such debates in the future.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 19th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

If I may, I will have a discussion with my hon. Friend about how we can ensure that if she and other Members have, during the passage of the Water Bill, a desire to table amendments, there is provision for them to do so.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May we have an urgent statement on EU membership and immigration, but this time can we have it from the person at the Dispatch Box who is actually pulling the strings of the Conservative party and setting the agenda, which can only be Nigel Farage?

[Mr Lansley]

I think the hon. Gentleman is living in some kind of fantasy world. I can assure him that Nigel Farage is not pulling the strings. If I may revert to being a constituency Member of Parliament for this purpose, I take particular pleasure in the fact that before the last county council elections there was one UKIP county councillor in South Cambridgeshire and after it there were none.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 28th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. Indeed, I think the House will be grateful to the Standards Committee and the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards for an exceptionally thorough report. Having read it, I looked last weekend for any recognition in The Sunday Times of its findings, but found none. I rather regret that. If the press is rightly quick to criticise, it should equally be ready to admit when it has got it wrong.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May we have a debate about the cost of Government hospitality, particularly when this week Scottish celebrities are tripping over themselves to snub the Prime Minister’s lavish St Andrew’s day Union bash? We learned this morning that even the Prime Minister has decided to snub his own event. Does the Leader of the House have any idea who is actually going to attend?

[Mr Lansley]

I have to confess that I have no idea who will attend it.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 7th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point that I suspect my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport will be familiar with and sympathetic to, given his constituency interest. I will draw the further point relating to transport to his attention, and he might like to respond to my hon. Friend.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May we have a statement about what is happening with the Chilcot inquiry? It seems like an age since it was established and took its evidence, and we learn today that there has been a further blockage in obtaining correspondence between Tony Blair and George Bush from the Cabinet Secretary. Surely the Chilcot inquiry should get everything that it requires so that we can get to the bottom of why we went into that disastrous illegal war?

[Mr Lansley]

I regret that I am not in a position to comment about that. I have read about this in the newspapers, but that is literally all I know about whether information is being sought by the Chilcot inquiry. I will talk to my colleagues and see whether we can update the House on the timetable although, as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, it is not in the hands of the Government as such.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 31st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Fortunately, he has done so in good time for his proposal to be considered before the World cup finals—while I was laid up, one of my pleasures was watching England play Poland. I will raise the matter with my hon. Friends at the Home Office, because there have been occasions in the past when it has been thought appropriate to have exemptions to licensing arrangements to recognise the time at which such major sporting events take place.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May we have a debate about the membership of this House? We now have the incredible spectacle of the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), the former Prime Minister, describing himself as “an ex-politician”. How can someone be a Member of this House and an ex-politician at the same time?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot account for the views of the former Prime Minister. “Politician” is an interesting description, but as Members of Parliament we are all here with a responsibility to represent our constituents, both in the constituency and—in my view—here in Westminster.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Will the Leader of the House give way?

[Mr Lansley]

I said that I would give way a little later on. As I was saying, the Bill strengthens the existing limits on the campaign spending of third parties. We have spending limits on parties at elections. That ensures a degree of equality of arms, and we should not see it undermined by distorting activity of disproportionate expenditure by third parties. The limits we are setting—[Interruption.] If Opposition Members would listen, they might understand better what the Bill does. The limits we are setting will allow organisations that want to campaign still to do so. The expenditure thresholds at which third parties are required to register with the Electoral Commission are being lowered. That will allow members of the public better to identify the great number of organisations that exert influence in political campaigns.

The Government’s clear view is that nothing in the Bill should change the basic way in which third parties campaign and register with the Electoral Commission. Currently, third parties register if they are campaigning to promote the electoral success, or otherwise enhance the standing, of a party or candidates. That will stay the same, so the argument made by the campaign group 38 Degrees that the changes stop campaigning on policy areas is not correct. The requirement to register applies only if the spending is for electoral purposes.

[Pete Wishart]

The Leader of the House will know that in Scotland we very much welcome the contribution of civic society to our democratic debate. He said that the Bill has implications for Scottish parliamentary elections and other elections. Does he know what those implications are yet?

[Mr Lansley]

We are very clear that this has an impact on the structure of election law in the way described in the Bill, and we will go through that in detail in Committee.

Lobbying

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I want to make a little more progress before giving way to my hon. Friends.

[Pete Wishart]

And to me, too.

[Mr Lansley]

And to the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), whose views I always respect.

As a Government, we believe that we must choose the route of trying to produce a transparent system. The contrary route—a completely rules-based approach, rather than one based on principles—is more likely to fail, as too often rules then create loopholes that people will exploit when they can. In contrast, we are setting out to create an open and transparent culture that transforms behaviour so that people live up to these principles. As a Government, we have pursued such an open approach, so that we can look with justification to promoting some of the most transparent actions ever.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lansley]

I think that we in this House should be clear that our constituents have a right to lobby us as their constituency Members of Parliament. What is important is that we always behave in a way that is consistent with the code of conduct for Members so that we act as constituency representatives, not on the basis of any other inappropriate or improper relationships.

[Pete Wishart]

The Leader of the House will know that in Scotland we are progressing our register of lobbyists through a cross-party private Member’s Bill. Does he recognise the efforts we have made in the Scottish Parliament to try to deal with this problem, and is that a model that he might indeed follow?

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there are a number of models in a number of jurisdictions across the world, which we have of course looked at and considered carefully. What I am emphasising here is that we are going to proceed on the basis of a belief that the greatest possible clarity and transparency is the key to achieving the confidence we are looking for. In order for that to happen, what is particularly necessary is that the public can see who is lobbying whom.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 20th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am familiar with some programmes. Pobol y Cwm is my favourite programme on S4C, because it is filmed in Menai Bridge, which I know well. My hon. Friend is right about the importance of S4C and it is good for the House to have opportunities from time to time to examine and reiterate that, but the best thing would probably be for him to secure the support of other Members from Wales and make an approach to the Backbench Business Committee.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Leader of the House will know that a review of the Wright reforms is currently going through parliamentary Committees. The reforms have been an utter disaster for the smaller parties, leaving the proceedings of the House almost exclusively in the hands of the Government and the Labour Opposition. Will he support having a place for a Member from the minority parties on the Backbench Business Committee and on the proposed House business committee?

[Mr Lansley]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman feels that way. The intention of the Government, and I think of the major parties in this House, has been to ensure that there is access for smaller parties. In particular, arrangements have been made for smaller parties to attend the Backbench Business Committee, even if they are not able to vote. I remind the hon. Gentleman and the House that I went recently to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee, which is undertaking an inquiry into the Wright Committee reforms. I made it clear that at this stage I have no proposals to introduce a House business committee, but I await the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s report. If the hon. Gentleman has any points to raise, he should be making them to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 21st March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I know that the House will share my hon. Friend’s appreciation of the work of the MOD police. The MOD has concluded that there is scope for savings to be made in the policing of some defence establishments. The measures relating to that are subject to ongoing consultation with staff and trade unions. No final decisions have been made.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

I am sure the Leader of the House would like to note that today the Scottish Parliament will learn the date of Scotland’s historic independence referendum. Over 90% of MSPs voted against the bedroom tax but, like the poll tax, it will still be imposed in Scotland. If we have another debate and 100% of MSPs vote against the bedroom tax, can we have that pernicious, awful tax withdrawn from our nation?

[Mr Lansley]

I am sure that the House will be interested to learn the date of the referendum in due course later today. We live in a United Kingdom, and some matters are devolved and some are reserved. The same principles apply in Scotland as apply anywhere else in this country. In circumstances in which we are paying £23 billion in housing benefit and need to make savings, we must have a view to fairness, and how can it have been fair that housing benefit was not available to subsidise spare rooms in the private rented sector but was available for that in the social rented sector?

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 14th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I echo my hon. Friend’s praise for the emergency services and for his constituents—I was taken with the reports that the Red Cross, for example, was reaching out to people and giving them support. I know that they worked together around the clock in partnership with the Highways Agency and I, too, pay tribute to them. The extreme weather, which was probably experienced to a greater extent in much of northern Europe, had a heavy impact on the south of this country—

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

And Scotland.

[Mr Lansley]

And, indeed, on other parts of the country. I note the request for a statement from my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Henry Smith). I do not anticipate a statement from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State at the moment, but I can assure my hon. Friend that we constantly learn from what happens and apply those lessons in ensuring that we minimise disruption to the public and business during severe weather.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Last but certainly not least, I call Pete Wishart.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Surely we will have a debate to mark the 10th anniversary of the invasion and the war in Iraq. Iraq remains our most damaging and appalling foreign policy adventure ever, with more than 100,000 dead and the region destabilised. I was in the House with the right hon. Gentleman when we listened to the nonsense and the lies from the Labour Government on the case for war. Surely we should revisit that next week.

[Mr Lansley]

I was in the House, as the hon. Gentleman recalls, at the time of the debate leading up to the invasion of Iraq—[Interruption.]—and did not vote for it. The shadow Leader of the House is wrong in her intervention from a sedentary position. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) will be aware that a number of hon. Members have sought such a debate from the Backbench Business Committee. From the Government’s point of view, that is a matter for the Committee, but we are only too aware of the prospect of the Chilcot review coming forward at some point, and the importance of being able to debate and understand all the circumstances leading up to that decision in the light of the Chilcot review when it is published.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 7th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend and other hon. Members will be very concerned to ensure that the report is fully debated, and he may know that a number of Staffordshire MPs have sought a debate through the Backbench Business Committee. The Committee will consider that request and I will be happy to understand in due course whether the Committee can accommodate such a debate.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

In a particularly callous move, the Foreign Office has withdrawn concessionary visa arrangements for children from Chernobyl, thus depriving many of an opportunity to receive respite and to boost their immune system in constituencies such as mine. May we have a debate about how the Foreign Office decides on these concessionary visa arrangements, so that we can try to persuade the relevant Minister to change his mind about this appalling decision?

[Mr Lansley]

From memory—obviously I will correct this if I am wrong—Ministers at the Foreign Office have met representatives who are seeking these concessionary visa arrangements. I will, of course, ensure that the hon. Gentleman is informed about the result of those discussions, but I am not aware that I will, before Foreign Office questions, have a likelihood of being able to ask that question directly.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Tuesday 29th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

Yes, my hon. Friend makes an important point. I might say that the argument was put to the Members of the other House that in agreeing such an amendment, the Lords are seeking directly and dramatically to intervene in the structure of elections to this House. As my noble Friend Lord Strathclyde told peers in another place:

“How odd it would be if this unelected House…should have the temerity to tell the elected House how to proceed on its…election”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 15 November 2010; Vol. 722, c. 568.]

How often did Opposition Members complain when they were in government if the unelected House sought to overrule the elected House? Let them contemplate this: how much stronger is that complaint, which I heard them make, when the view of this House is overruled in relation to the franchise to this House?

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

May I remind the Leader of the House that those of us on the SNP Benches were never in government? He will have no comfort from the Scottish National party. We will be voting against the Government’s proposals, even though the new boundaries would be to our advantage. Can he explain why the Conservatives are selecting candidates on the current boundaries, not the new boundaries?

[Mr Lansley]

I am very disappointed in what the hon. Gentleman says, because I would hope that Members of this House would attach immense weight to the primacy of this House in determining the franchise for this House and reject a move by the unelected House to seek to interfere with the previously settled will of this House.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 10th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I reiterate that in the past conscience issues, including those that have been the subject of free votes by virtue of that fact, have not necessarily been considered by a Committee of the whole House. There is a job to be done in scrutinising legislation, which can sometimes be best achieved in Committee, and all Members have an opportunity to participate in the debate on Report, particularly if sufficient time is available. I am not prejudging the question of the equal marriage Bill at all, as it has not been introduced and I have not announced how we propose the business should be taken forward.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Next Tuesday we will discuss the important section 30 order, which will allow for a legally binding referendum on Scottish independence to be determined by the Scottish Government. Many of the Leader of the House’s hon. Friends are not particularly well disposed to that idea and might be tempted to vote against the measure. Can he assure me that there will be a three-line Government Whip for attendance to ensure that any rebellion is defeated?

[Mr Lansley]

If I may say so, it is sufficient that I deal with the business of the House, rather than attempting to answer questions relating to the whipping arrangements of each individual party. Suffice it to say, the matter will be brought forward on a Government motion.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. If I may, I will ask my colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to respond on that, as they consider issues relating to consumer rights generally.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

A very important debate on Scotland and the European Union had to be cancelled because the Member sponsoring it could not be bothered to turn up on time. What reprimand did that Member receive? Should there not at least be an apology given to those who had prepared speeches and bothered to turn up on time?

[Mr Lansley]

I must confess that I should have seen that that had happened; it is my fault that I was not aware of it, and I will certainly look into it. Of course, individual Members are responsible for their attendance at debates, particularly those they have sought, but I am sure that Members from across the House will regret it if debates to which they wish to contribute are available and other hon. Members fail to enable them to take place.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Lansley and Pete Wishart

Thursday 13th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

As my hon. Friend will have heard, I urge Members to look at the positive steps that are being taken and at the increase last year in the Government revenue at post offices. That particular contract is a live contract. It would not be appropriate for Ministers to comment during the course of a live contract, nor for there to be a debate about a contract during the course of its procurement.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Will the Leader of the House do all he can to encourage the Labour Opposition to give us at least the topics of their Opposition day debates at the business statement prior to their taking place? I am not sure whether he is aware of what happened on Monday night. We had 20 minutes to prepare and submit an amendment to a Labour Opposition motion. That is totally unacceptable and is a gross discourtesy to the House, the Speaker and the officials. Will the Leader of the House get the Opposition to get their act together?

[Mr Lansley]

I read the hon. Gentleman’s point of order on that issue. In the spirit of the two Front Benches, I refer his question to the shadow Leader of the House to reply.