Veterans and Service Personnel

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 8th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mark Lancaster)]

It is a pleasure to reply to what has been an excellent and mainly consensual debate. This is certainly not a subject on which we would wish to find division across the House, but it is absolutely right that we should debate it.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) on securing the debate. He could not have chosen a more poignant time to discuss a new generation of veterans and service personnel than the week in which we mark Remembrance Day, and the issues that he raises are of huge significance. He really set the tone for the debate with his passionate account of the contribution that service personnel, including many of his own family members, have made to this nation over many years. I especially want to underline his acknowledgement of the often-overlooked contribution that women have made during the world wars and other conflicts.

Equally, we have had some fantastic contributions by other hon. Members, not least my hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Mrs Trevelyan), who has rapidly established herself in this House as a true champion for the armed forces in the various pieces of work that she is undertaking. I regularly have exchanges with her, and I welcome her challenges to Government about increasing support for our service personnel. I absolutely agree and I am ever mindful that our service personnel are the single greatest asset in our armed forces.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is an equally passionate supporter of our armed forces. I thank him for his 13 and a half years’ service.

[Jim Shannon]

Fourteen and a half years.

[Mark Lancaster]

I apologise. I thank the hon. Gentleman for his 14 and a half years’ service, even if most of it was in the Royal Artillery. He will understand that comment from a sapper and take it in the good spirit in which it is intended. I acknowledge his commitment to veterans in Northern Ireland.

The hon. Gentleman is particularly concerned about mental health. I will turn to that in a moment, but it is worth putting on the record that a bespoke aftercare package is in place in Northern Ireland to support former members of the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal Irish Rangers, and their dependants and widows. It consists of welfare teams across Northern Ireland that offer vocational resettlement training, medical support and a benevolent fund. In August 2015, we agreed that the Ulster Defence Regiment and Royal Irish aftercare service should continue to exist and continue to be funded. Although the circumstances leading to its inception have markedly changed, the need is still evident and the demand on its services is being met effectively. This is in addition to the services available to all veterans, including the Veterans Welfare Service, which has welfare representatives based across the UK, and service and ex-service charities, such as the Army Benevolent Fund, the Soldiers Charity, the armed forces charity SSAFA and Combat Stress.

The hon. Gentleman said a few words about the armed forces compensation scheme. He may well be aware that the quinquennial—five-yearly—review of that scheme is currently under way, and I hope that its report will be made available in late spring. That demonstrates that the scheme is constantly under review.

As ever, my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) demonstrated his support for our veterans, and indeed for the work of the Royal British Legion and other service charities in his constituency. He talked about the poignant moment while visiting various war memorials when he realised the age of many of those who had died. That is exactly the experience I had when I visited the Somme to see my great-uncle’s grave. I was hit by the shock of realising that he was just 19 years old when he died. I went there as a young man, but I was already seven years his senior. Such experiences very much dispel the image of veterans as being from a much older age cohort. That is not the case, and I will turn to that—it is very much the theme of this debate—in a moment.

I thought the hon. Member for Stirling (Steven Paterson) gave an equally excellent description of the ways in which the Scottish Government are addressing veterans’ issues north of the border. Despite our political differences, I have a very good working relationship with Keith Brown. I have spoken to him this week, and I will meet him again shortly. Such a cross-border relationship is absolutely vital, because we all recognise that veterans move around within the United Kingdom.

This is a broad-ranging topic, and it is at such moments that I realise what an honour it is to do this job. I mean that not only as a Member of Parliament, since we are all honoured to be in the House, but, given that I joined the Army almost 28 years ago—I remind the House that I still serve in the Army Reserve—as a Minister in a Department in which I have a passionate interest, as I hope hon. Members recognise. I am not yet a veteran, but my time will come, as it does to all of us who are servicemen, so I will start by discussing veterans.

There is a misconception that veterans are older people. In the popular mind, they are people who fought in the great conflicts of the mid-20th century—the second world war, the Korea campaign and the Suez crisis of 60 years ago. However, veterans are of course from a younger generation. For example, my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) served in a much more recent conflict in Bosnia. Such a picture is only partial: it omits the 220,000 personnel who served during a period of 13 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it fails to take account of the fact that some of our veterans will have served only for a very short period.

It is vital that we think carefully about this younger generation, lest we fail to give them the specific support they need. That concern is reflected in the Royal British Legion’s excellent Rethink Remembrance campaign. As the campaign reminds us, society as a whole has a responsibility to help all those who lay their lives on the line for the needs of this nation, especially as so many of our service veterans utilise public and private sector support across our devolved Administrations. At the same time, we believe that the MOD can play a critical role in joining the dots and ensuring that the right support goes to the right place at the right time. We are using the covenant as our mechanism to make this happen.

First, we are helping out on health and housing. The Government have channelled £13 million from the LIBOR fund into supporting mental health in the armed forces community. Meanwhile, NHS England is currently piloting a veterans trauma network, providing a safety net for those with lifelong healthcare needs who are returning to civilian life. Furthermore, as has been explained, NHS Scotland and the Scottish Government have put £1.2 million into providing specialist mental health services for veterans in Scotland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Monday 7th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster]

Of course we recognise that the covenant is very much a partnership between Government, the third sector and the corporate world, which is why I was delighted to see that we recently passed 1,200 signatures on the corporate covenant.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What discussions has the Minister had with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to see the armed forces covenant enforced in Northern Ireland? What steps has his Department taken in the interim to work with veterans’ services in Northern Ireland until the scheme is fully implemented?

[Mark Lancaster]

Of course, we have unique challenges in Northern Ireland, but I am pleased to report that we estimate that 93% of covenant issues are being enforced in Northern Ireland. Clearly, we need to do better, and that is going to be my focus for the year.

Veterans Care Sector: Government Role

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster]

We have a perfect example of why it is so important that the responsibility for veterans runs across the piece in government. As was so rightly pointed out, it is not in my power, as veterans Minister, to force the chief statistician to include this in his survey. If my hon. Friend is right, the Cabinet Office has the right to do that.

Transition is seen as a through-career management process. We are looking at different ways to ensure that from the point that people join the armed forces, they can see that they not only have the possibility of a fulfilling career but are aware that one day they will become a civilian and need to prepare for that. Career transition should start on day one of service and we must communicate this message on the very first day an individual joins. However, where there are veterans who have difficulties in transition, the Government, local authorities and the charitable sector must step in to ensure that they are afforded appropriate support. Alongside the Government, some 2,500 service charities also play a role. Cobseo, the Confederation of Service Charities, of which many charities are a member, has also created various cluster groups to discuss important issues, such as mental health and housing, where they encourage collective working and provide a forum to raise issues and ideas to implement solutions.

To reiterate some of the points made during the debate in March on the role of charities in the veterans care sector, we value our partnership with the charitable and community sectors. They provide and address wider welfare requirements, particularly for the more vulnerable individuals in the armed forces community. Only last week at the MOD, I chaired the ministerial service charities partnership board, a meeting attended by relevant Government officials and Cobseo charities such as SSAFA, Help for Heroes and the Royal British Legion. In recognition of some of the concerns my hon. Friend raises, I reset its role with a focus on co-operation and a strategic approach to discussions, where actions are taken on current and important issues arising in the veterans sector, with a view to ensuring that the MOD, charities and other Government Departments can be held to account. I believe that accountability is important. Frankly, as the Minister with responsibility for veterans, I walk a tightrope when it comes to dealing with charities. Ultimately, I have no power to direct a charity to do anything. Charities are not responsible to Government—they are responsible to their trustees—but I believe that the Government have a role in providing leadership to try to unite the various sectors in supporting veterans. This is a role that I try to fulfil.

On the point about Help for Heroes, it was a charity that started up in 2007. The armed forces had recently re-engaged in Afghanistan and stayed for a further seven years. The support, welfare and treatment initially provided by Help for Heroes bore fruit from the horrendous injuries that our brave service personnel suffered in that conflict. Throughout those seven years and beyond, along with improvements to equipment, we have made great strides in ensuring that the best medical support is available from the MOD, charities and the NHS. I would like to take the opportunity to pay tribute to both Bryn and Emma Parry, whom I have got to know very well over the last couple of years, and thank them for all their service in leadership of this charity. I wish them well for the future.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I had a meeting with a Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Minister, which is why I could not attend this Adjournment debate any sooner.

In Northern Ireland, about 100 veterans have tried to commit suicide over the last year and a half, mainly those who served in Afghanistan. Those veterans are not with any charity or regimental association—they are under the radar. What can be done to reach those people that nobody knows about, but who have been affected very greatly by what they saw during their service in Afghanistan?

[Mark Lancaster]

I intend to visit Northern Ireland shortly. For obvious reasons, I appreciate that there is a unique set of circumstances over there, and I am determined to do my bit to address them. Of course, communication is the key. I shall explain in a few moments how I believe we can help, but the key is making sure that support services are available and communicated. All too often, help is out there, but it is not clear how our veterans access it. I intend to say a few words about that if the hon. Gentleman will bear with me.

I informed the House earlier this year of a plan to improve the care received by the most seriously injured and highly dependent service personnel and veterans. Currently, this support is funded and delivered by a number of separate agencies, including the MOD, the NHS, local authorities and charitable organisations. As such, we have a pilot, which is ongoing, that sees care of this kind co-ordinated and delivered by a new integrated high-dependency care system—I think we need a better name. It produces a joined-up and improved system of care for the individual, reducing strain on local care commissioning groups. The early signs are that this is going well. I am happy, once it is established, to see how to extend it to a wider cohort of veterans.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Monday 18th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Some 5,000 service personnel who serve overseas have applied for postal votes. They tell me that by the time the postal votes are sent to the regiment, those serving overseas are disadvantaged. How will the Minister ensure that postal votes are received by those serving overseas who wish to vote?

[Mark Lancaster]

We partook in the Government-wide scheme launched on 1 February to try to ensure that our service personnel were aware that they could register, and we will do the same again through a defence information notice on the EU referendum that will be issued in May. Ultimately, it is down to individual service voters whether they register or vote.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster]

For the convenience of the Committee, I shall discuss together clauses 7 to 12, which deal with offenders assisting investigations. In overview, clauses 7 and 8 allow the Director of Service Prosecutions, in return for assistance provided by a person to an investigation or prosecution, to enter into an agreement with the person giving them immunity from prosecution or an undertaking that information will not be used against them in proceedings. Clauses 9 to 12 make provision with respect to reduced sentences for those who provide such assistance.

The provisions closely follow those in the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, which apply to civilian prosecutors and courts. Under these provisions, an immunity notice or restricted use undertaking must be in writing and will normally include conditions, breach of which would lead to the immunity or undertaking being revoked.

The Director of Service Prosecutions will, as a matter of good practice, consult the Attorney General in relation to any offer of immunity. The DSP will engage with the Director of Public Prosecutions and devolved Administrations in the event of concurrent jurisdiction. Immunity notices and restricted use undertakings can be provided only if the DSP considers it appropriate in relation to the investigation or prosecution of a criminal conduct service offence, where the equivalent civilian offence is capable of being tried in the Crown Court, or a disciplinary offence, for which the maximum sentence is more than two years imprisonment.

[Jim Shannon]

I have one quick question for the Minister. He mentioned contacting the devolved Administrations, and I am wondering what credence is given to those Administrations in respect of decisions made by Ministers in the Ministry of Defence. In other words, if there is a disagreement between the devolved Administrations and the Ministry, which takes precedence?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Lancaster]

The clause and schedule provide for the Armed Forces Act 2006, as it currently has effect in the United Kingdom, to come into force in the Isle of Man and the British overseas territories, except Gibraltar, although we are consulting the Government of Gibraltar about extending the provisions of the 2006 Act to that territory. I should make clear at this point that, as a matter of UK law, the 2006 Act will continue to apply to service personnel wherever in the world they are serving.We have consulted the Isle of Man and the British overseas territories, and they are content with our approach. We are discussing with Gibraltar whether it would be best to provide for the 2006 Act and the Bill to extend to it as well, and if Gibraltar considers that to be the case, we will introduce an amendment to that effect.

[Jim Shannon]

I welcome the Minister’s commitment to ensuring that the 2006 Act will come into force in the Isle of Man and the British overseas territories, with the exception of Gibraltar, and that there will be the option of extending it to the Channel Islands. We too often forget those from the overseas territories and those who serve there. I am pleased to note that this is a truly British Bill which recognises our devoted armed services throughout the globe. This move is, I believe, long overdue.

I should like to ask the Minister two questions. First, will he give us some idea what is meant by “the option of extending it to the Channel Islands”? Secondly, is he able to give a commitment—I am not sure whether he is—that, as I hope sincerely to be the case, the exemption of Gibraltar is not due to any Spanish intrusion or interference? The sovereignty of Gibraltar is down to its people, and we should firmly uphold their right to remain British, no matter what actions or words may come from Madrid.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

We support clause 13 and the accompanying schedule. It makes sense to extend the Act to the overseas territories.

May I ask the Minister what the timescale is for the negotiations with Gibraltar? I realise that the elections there may have interfered with the process. May I also ask what mechanism would operate if Gibraltar accepted that the legislation should extend to it? Would we have to wait for the next Armed Forces Bill to introduce any changes that were necessary?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Lancaster]

I will come to that, but protocols are in place between MOD firefighters and local fire authorities and there have been occasions when MOD firefighters have supported local authority fire and rescue services. However, it is important that that is done in a combined and controlled way.

The Defence Fire Risk Management Organisation provides fire and rescue operational services and support across defence at airfields, specified domestic establishments and deployed locations in the UK and overseas. DFRMO falls outside the ambit of the primary legislation that governs local fire and rescue authorities in the UK. Contractors providing fire and rescue services for defence are also present at the Atomic Weapons Establishment, QinetiQ, Babcock and Serco. They operate at sites such as Aldermaston, Burghfield and Boscombe Down. DFRMO currently has 320 fire and rescue service contractors, out of a total strength of more than 2,000 personnel. Contractor firefighters, now and in future, should also be able to deal with an emergency in the same way as MOD firefighters. We are not aware of local fire and rescue authorities using or planning to use contractor firefighters. However, there are other private and specialised fire and rescue services at other sites such as ports and airports, power stations, industrial sites and some state properties.

The clauses constitute a simple, sensible change that gives MOD firefighters the same legal protections as their civilian counterparts.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister referred to the legal protections that are provided. Is insurance protection provided as well? I am conscious that with firefighters’ extra responsibilities come the possibility of someone being hurt as a result. I would like to check that point.

Khat

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

I am delighted to have secured this debate, and I would like to start by paying tribute to the attempts by successive Governments to deal head on with specific issues encountered by minority communities—as we heard only today with the Prime Minister’s commitment to address forced marriage. I must admit, however, to being slightly disappointed that, as a Member of a party that raised the expectations of my constituents by pledging to ban the drug khat while in opposition—a commitment made by no fewer than three members of the shadow Cabinet on three separate occasions—I stand here yet again calling on the Government finally to fulfil their very clear commitment. This is not a partisan issue. Indeed, as I sense we shall see tonight, it unites the House, and it is time that the Government acted.

I have three main points to make but I shall give first a little background, which I hope will mean that the Minister in his response will not need to dwell on the past, but can focus on the future actions his Department intends to take. The distinctive customs and traits of other cultures constitute the vibrant country that we live in today. East African culture has had a particularly far-reaching effect on our society. The religious dedication and hard-working ethos that colour the characters of east Africans have been something to admire over recent years, with independent businesses and community leaders flourishing across towns and cities in the UK. However, with the highs come the lows. One element of east African culture which has long been disputed is the legality of the native east African drug khat. Given the frequency with which khat has been discussed over the past year, I know that most hon. Members are now familiar with the drug, but for the benefit of those who are not, I shall explain in more detail.

Khat plants are grown in Africa and the middle east, and are chewed primarily among Somali, Ethiopian and Yemeni communities. The effects of khat are varied but as a stimulant it creates euphoria and increased sociability—hence its popularity at social gatherings such as weddings. However, the paranoia, aggression and hallucinogenic effects make it extremely disruptive not just to the individual and their health, but to their family and wider society.

Khat is a barrier to inclusion and integration, and it was my sincere impression—and more importantly that of my constituents—that this Government intended to act. This is the second time I have raised the subject of khat in this Chamber and I was deeply encouraged when the Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Kenilworth and Southam (Jeremy Wright). confirmed in response to the first debate that in February last year the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs was ordered to carry out a full review of the available evidence on khat, and to reconsider the question of controlling it. One year on, and with no report to speak of and none expected anytime soon—indeed, this week the Department confirmed that it will be at least another year—the same amount of limited research is available to us.

From the first mention of khat in Parliament 16 years ago to this very day, Members on both sides of the House have shared their evidence. From Portsmouth to Glasgow, councils and local authorities are standing in isolation, but what we need is a joined-up, united front. My debate today has been sparked by the frustration of my constituents that after 19 months of the coalition Government we appear to be no further forward.

In seeking to progress the matter, I wish to highlight three distinct points. First, I wish to remind my hon. Friend the Minister, for whom I have enormous respect, of the detrimental impact that khat has on issues ranging from health to crime. This will demonstrate how simply kicking this issue into the long grass with further “monitoring” is simply unacceptable. Secondly, I want to revisit the pledge that we made in opposition to act on khat, and to ask why we now seem to be shying away from this pledge. Lastly, I will suggest that tackling khat fits in with this Government’s recent accomplishments in determinedly facing up to the problems that divide our minority communities.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman has outlined some of the side effects of the drug, which also include insomnia and depression. Does he feel that those two health effects are sufficient reason to ask that the legislation be changed urgently? Does he agree that it is important that any legislative change should affect all the regions, in conjunction with the devolved Administrations, so that it applies UK-wide?

[Mark Lancaster]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point; indeed, I will come to the health effects in greater detail shortly. However, let me be absolutely clear that I am pressing for this Government to act in the manner that he suggests.

In my constituency, there are more than 6,000 Somali residents. One of the leaders of the Milton Keynes Somali community, Adan Kahin, has shared many alarming stories with me. His biggest concern is that khat is at the root of family breakdown, owing to issues such as unemployment, economic hardship or aggression arising from heavy usage. Adan has expressed explicit concern about the number of teenage boys whose fathers are absent from the home, instead spending all day chewing in a mafrishi, or khat house. If the Government are truly concerned about the antisocial behaviour witnessed last summer, it is vital that we shine a light into those corners of society. Adan has warned of usage spreading to female members of the community—women who are left alone all day with large numbers of children and little escape. What links all users, however, is the common belief that turning to khat will alleviate the destitution and stress that permeate their lives. I am even aware of instances in well-regarded British institutions where khat has been chewed inappropriately during working hours. There have also been complaints about disturbances caused by delivery of the plant and violence outside mafrishis, with one incident even leading to the death of a seller in my constituency.

Our hands-off policy means that there is absolutely zero quality control. One box of khat checked by port health at Heathrow contained such high levels of pesticides that it was unfit for human use, and that is just one box out of the 10 tonnes arriving each week. Because of the lack of information held on hospital admissions, we are still uncertain about the overall long-term health effects. Problems range from the need for substantial dental treatment, owing to the quantity of sugar and cigarettes consumed, to more serious conditions, such as liver failure and psychosis. It is clear that health practitioners are clueless about how to advise users. Those wishing for a fresh start are stranded, with little or no support—no addiction services or pharmacological agents who can treat khat dependence. Essentially, there are few ways out.

The last review of khat surmised that usage is not prevalent. That may be true for the mainstream population, but not for the demographic concerned. It has been put to me that the Government are not interested because this is perceived as a minority issue. I know that this is not the case, but it is in the Minister’s hands to demonstrate to my community that he does care, as actions, as we all know, speak louder than words.

[Mark Lancaster]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, which simply underlines what I said earlier. I know that the Minister is committed to equality, which is why I am sure he will address the issue when he responds to this debate. Khat does easily not fit a pre-existing drugs profile, given that its use is limited to certain ethnic communities. That is precisely why we must give it special attention.

Let me move on to my second point. The Government’s silence on this issue prompted me to re-read our manifesto, to make sense of the khat conundrum, but it holds no evidence of a U-turn, with other evidence actually pointing to the contrary. In a 2008 article in The Guardian, the co-chair of the Conservative party, the noble Baroness Warsi, claimed that khat was

“far from harmless and should be banned”.

Indeed, the title of that article was “Conservatives will ban khat”—not “Conservatives might ban khat”, not “Conservatives will consider banning khat”, not “Conservatives will seek advice from the ACMD and then ban khat”, but “Conservatives will ban khat”. In a 2006 report entitled “The Khat Nexus”, the then shadow Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis), claimed that a Tory Government would

“schedule khat as a class B drug.”

Those were watertight pledges, made regardless of an ACMD review. So if nothing else, can the Minister explain to my constituents why we now appear to have had a change of heart?

This Government have, however, made a beeline for new legal highs. It is right that we award legal highs that attention, but we cannot ignore the fact that khat, by its very nature, also fits the description of a legal high. I was shocked to learn that cathine and cathinone, two components of khat, are members of the same group of drugs as mephedrone. As components, cathinone and cathine are illegal, as is mephedrone, yet contradicting all common sense, khat, which contains those same substances, is legal. I would like to know how we can continue to promote the hypocritical message that cathinone is okay in one substance but not in another? Just because a drug is legal does not mean it is safe. Tackling new legal highs cannot be a flag-waving policy; we must not forget the question of khat, which has languished in this Chamber year after year. As we take action on those powerful synthetic drugs, khat users and their families watch from the sidelines as their plea goes unheard yet again.

Another reason for my keen interest in this topic is that it is a cross-party point of concern. Wherever large immigrant groups of Somalis settle, the problem of khat is never far behind. This is an issue that the whole House can support, and we should therefore be working towards an integrated solution. It does not help that councils and local authorities are standing alone on the issue. I commend Hillingdon council’s recent report, produced in 2011, which was forthright enough to make recommendations to the Government on matters ranging from classification to temporary bans.

Unlike the UK, some countries are acting. As of yesterday, even the Netherlands—a country renowned for its liberal drugs policy—has banned khat. The UK is now the only legal point of entry for khat into Europe, and that is an embarrassing position to find ourselves in. The Dutch Government have clearly stated that 10% of users, who are predominantly Somali, develop problems with khat. I want to ask the Minister what is preventing us from safeguarding our citizens in the same fashion. The most disturbing comparison comes from Somalia itself: even that war-torn country has made moves to control khat. Islamist courts there are working to put a stop to the khat scourge, and to promote a more stable and cohesive society. What we need is joined-up thinking, and top-down leadership to reassure councils and communities that they are not alone. This is an ideal opportunity for the Government to prove to our communities that we recognise—and, indeed, will tackle—the problems on their doorstep.

That leads me nicely on to my third and final point, which is the commendable way in which this Government have faced up to issues that traditionally effect ethnic minority communities. We have not shied away from those problems, which are so often left to rot at the core of our society. We have rightly begun to take steps to address forced marriage in this country—an issue that has shocked the nation and that works directly against the values and self-worth that we teach our young women, of every background, in British schools. The work that we are promoting on the subject of domestic violence will have a direct effect on majority and minority ethnic communities.

That is not all. I was encouraged to read in the Conservative manifesto that we would be promoting improved community relations for minority ethnic communities, which action on khat will help to deliver. In my own constituency, good work is being done to address those marginalised, sometimes controversial, issues; acting on khat will not be out of step with the current momentum. We can prove to those who doubt our intentions that when we make promises, we stick to them, which is why I am sure the Minister will agree that it is important, given our previous promises, that we are seen to act on khat.

Finally, I want to bring the debate right up to date. We are standing here today, almost one year on from the report being ordered, with no new evidence from the Advisory Council on Misuse of Drugs. Since its appearance on the British crime survey of drug misuse, the usage of khat has increased. We are unaware of the percentage of khat imports that are being used to extract cathinone and cathine, and in turn, being illegally re-exported. Also, we have only anecdotal evidence that usage is spreading to the indigenous population. Why have we not commissioned a report to explore that threat?

Today, I want to know why my Government’s previous enthusiasm for acting on khat has waned so suddenly. May I ask the Minister to consider how I should respond when my constituents ask again what the Government are doing to protect future generations from the dangers of khat? And—if I may have the audacity to predict his response—may I ask whether he realises that, in order to get the evidence that his Department repeatedly demands, procedures have to be put in place first, in order to reap that information? Banning khat is unfailingly the end-state that I and the community want from this Government, as previously promised, but I wish to outline other possible interim measures.

[Jim Shannon]

The drug khat is controlled in America, Canada, Norway and Sweden, to mention but four examples. Does the hon. Gentleman feel that the Government could make contact with those countries to ascertain how they went about criminalising the drug? Might this not provide a way forward on the basis of information that might be helpful for the Government?

[Mark Lancaster]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that suggestion, which underlines the ridiculous point that, following the Dutch move only this week, khat is controlled everywhere in the western world apart from in the United Kingdom.

These are the interim suggestions I would make to the Minister—hopefully to be implemented before we get around to banning khat. Better provisions must be made for addict support. The most effective way of delivering this would be to provide targeted training to those already working within areas affected by khat, to deal with it in a culturally acceptable way. Community mobilisers who already assist with housing, health and education are incredibly well placed to co-ordinate this. Evidence suggests that heavy users are unlikely to seek help, which means that we must do more to reach them.

Secondly, a full health practitioners’ guide to khat and its health effects should be prepared and delivered to GPs and pharmacists nationwide. Thirdly, greater attention must be given to the importation of khat at ports. Finally, the disruption caused by khat houses and mafrishi congregations can be controlled through licensing. A minimum age should be introduced to protect young British citizens from the harm caused by the drug. Checks must be carried out on premises to ensure that they comply with health and safety standards.

After years of talk on khat, if my Government wish to retain the trust of the east African community, the time has come to follow the rest of the western world and act on khat.

Power Line Technology Devices

Debate between Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 18th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to introduce this timely and important debate in the House. Hon. Members who are intrigued by the title will perhaps read the first paragraph, so I should sum up the debate by highlighting my concern, and that of many organisations: Ofcom, and indeed successive Governments, have adopted a reactive approach to the increasing interference from power line technology devices. We urge the Government to take a more proactive approach.

The area that I represent could be deemed to be the home of radio communication. Milton Keynes, which includes the famous code breakers’ base Bletchley Park, was integral in intercepting enemy messages during the second world war. The city is surrounded by listening stations—one of which, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s Hanslope Park, continues to protect our country to this day.

Radio is paramount not just in preserving national security; nor is it merely the preserve of outposts around Milton Keynes. Across the world, such technology remains essential to all communication. The spectrum is invaluable in so many ways: to television, radio, mobile phones, the emergency services, the military and security services, hospital pagers, pilots’ landing systems, and many more.

Shortwave radio has proven time and again to be a vital back-up when other communication systems crash in the aftermath of natural disasters or terrorist attacks. For example, radio was used in the immediate aftermath of the attack on New York on 9/11, and in 2005 radio was used to co-ordinate the relief effort following Hurricane Katrina. However, there are fears that the efficiency of radio communication is being jeopardised by the development of new technologies, specifically those known as power line telecommunication devices. PLTs use a home’s mains electricity wiring to route internet and television around a household without using a data cable. As electricity wiring was not designed to carry radio signals, an unwanted by-product—interference—is emitted. That rasping hiss has the power severely to disrupt radio communication.

GCHQ, the BBC, the Civil Aviation Authority and even NATO are some of the bodies that have spoken out about PLTs’ power to interfere with, and therefore impede, their highly essential work. We and our constituents might never have heard of PLTs or the noise they emit, but every single one of us is affected by, and relies on, radio, so this debate is relevant to us all.

As I said, PLT devices use the radio spectrum to send data signals via mains electricity supplies, and tend to come in the form of large mains plugs that can share the internet between computers or high-definition television between rooms, providing an alternative to lots of cables in the home. Most commonly they are provided by BT Vision packages, and it is estimated by the regulator Ofcom that there are about 1.8 million pairs of the equipment in use. In fact, the UK is one of the biggest users of in-home PLT devices in Europe. As mains wiring was not designed for carrying radio signals, PLTs cause it to leak radio signals into the air. All appliances leak interference to some extent, but when electric wiring is used to carry broadband, the levels of interference become a significant problem.

I have met constituents who are experts in the field. They can walk down the street with a radio and pinpoint which households are using PLT devices just from the noise emanating from the buildings. We are talking about the pollution of the 21st century. In previous centuries, we have fought smog with campaigns for clean air, and now we are seeing a battle for clean airwaves. My constituents are not alone in their concerns. As I said, there is a chorus of consensus on this issue. The Civil Aviation Authority has expressed concerns about the threat posed to its instrument landing systems. One briefing note states:

“The CAA is concerned that interference originating from the legitimate operation of PLT could adversely impact aeronautical critical systems. Furthermore, it appears that should this occur, it may not be possible to resolve in a timely and safe manner.”

Even if the effects of the PLT are mitigated—I will come to that later—the probability of interference is reduced to 1%, which might sound low, but in aeronautical terms it is still a significant safety risk. The threat posed to aircraft safety by radio interference has been taken very seriously in the past. For example, in October 2009, in my neighbouring constituency of South West Bedfordshire, Ofcom paid a visit to 12-year-old Nickie Chamberlain in Leighton Buzzard. His TV booster aerial, which was faulty, was emitting interference that caused pilots at nearby Luton airport to complain. Ofcom acted quickly.

Even NATO has investigated the effects of PLTs on its equipment. One report states that the noise coming from PLT devices

“has the potential to cause problems for military HF (high frequency) radio communications and communication intelligence in all NATO countries”.

The Radio Society of Great Britain has been highlighting concerns about PLTs’ unwanted noise for 10 years. It clearly states that

“it will not be possible to recover the damage done to the spectrum unless action is taken very quickly”,

and that this “invaluable natural resource”—the spectrum—

“is being consigned to history”.

The BBC has also commissioned investigations into the effects of PLT devices. The most recent, published in March, described the “tearing” sound of the PLT, which at best was annoying and at worst made a broadcast programme incomprehensible.

However, the most damning indictment so far has come from GCHQ, which deemed PLTs

“likely to cause a detrimental effect to part of the core business of this Department.”

In a statement issued on 10 March, it concurred with others’ view that the interference from these devices

“was likely to pose a safety of life risk”.

It concluded that PLTs

“should not be available for sale/use within the EU”.

However, when I asked, in a written question, for the Minister’s opinion on that statement, I was informed that it had, intriguingly, been withdrawn. Just as PLTs have an odd effect on surrounding radios, the issue has had a curious effect on the associated authorities. GCHQ, as I said, expressed an unequivocal stance on the issue, but then withdrew it. Ofcom, too, is behaving rather strangely.

All electronic devices must adhere to the essential requirements—the Electromagnetic Compatibility Regulations 2006—which are based on the European electromagnetic compatibility directive. Ofcom was advised in a report it commissioned by ERA Technology in September 2008 that:

“It is considered that the Ethernet Power Line Adapters do not meet the Essential Requirements of the EMC Directive; emissions could potentially cause interference to communications equipment.”

However, Ofcom maintains that PLTs are not in breach, because it has investigated 227 complaints, and all but one have been resolved by BT engineers. There are, however, many problems with this methodology. First, these are isolated cases and small-scale investigations. However, the report bases findings on results from scientific experiments in the controlled conditions of electromagnetic compatibility test laboratories.

Secondly, as I hope my hon. Friend the Minister will agree, complaints tend to represent the tip of the iceberg. If one receives 10 complaints about an issue, they are likely to be indicative of scores of other qualms. Thirdly, what has happened shows that Ofcom is taking a reactive and not a proactive approach. Rather than heeding its own commission’s report, which says that PLTs do not comply with the directive, and then seeking out breaches, it is relying on people to approach the regulator. Why is Ofcom judging PLTs’ compliance not by the results of scientific experiments, but by the number of complaints that it has received? What other industry would prove the regulatory compliance of its products in that way?

The crucial point for my constituents is that Ofcom says that there are no relevant standards when it comes to PLTs and that it is waiting for the EU to formulate a “harmonised standard”. The Minister recently told me in answer to a parliamentary question:

“The Regulations do not set specific levels of interference”.—[Official Report, 10 March 2011; Vol. 527, c. 1199W.]

However, there is a standard: EN 22022, which is listed under the EU electromagnetic compatibility directive—or EMC directive—for controlling interference from data communication products such as PLTs.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned health and safety on a number of occasions in his presentation to the House this evening. Does he see local government as having an enforcement role in responding to health and safety issues?

[Mark Lancaster]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point that perhaps the Minister will address when he winds up.

The EN 22022 standard includes a threshold that has been agreed internationally for decades, and the ERA test report said that PLTs exceeded it. In fact, the acceptable level of interference was surpassed by 30 dB. I am told that that equates to 1,000 times the interference power that any other domestic product is permitted. Why are we waiting for a new standard when there is already one in place?

Another problem is that Ofcom is basing its stance on the current situation, not future projections. However, the interference caused by PLTs is set to get worse, for various reasons. First, more and more people will sign up for television and internet packages that use PLTs, which are set to figure highly in the YouView package due to be launched next year. One report, which I will discuss shortly, estimates that the number of PLT users per square kilometre will increase from 159 in 2010 to a massive 703 in 2020. Secondly, as different PLT manufacturers compete to provide better services the interference will get worse, because they will be using a greater part of the spectrum. They are already veering into the very high frequency range, which has reportedly increased interference. Thirdly, PLT devices are being discussed as a way of communicating information about energy usage as part of smart grid technology, or as a way of providing data-linking between appliances around a house.

Ofcom’s stance on PLT devices is also at variance with the conclusions of a report that it commissioned PA Consulting Group to undertake in June 2010. Ofcom claims that the current situation is acceptable because there are fewer complaints, in spite of a higher uptake of PLT units. Conversely, however, the PA report said:

“there will be a high probability of interference to some existing spectrum users…if PLT device features do not change from those currently implemented”.

PA recommends that in future, inference will be staved off only if devices are manufactured with mitigating features such as power control. I would be grateful if the Minister could say whether that has been put in place. PA also says:

“notches in the VHF aeronautical radio navigation bands should be mandated”.

Does the Minister know whether that has taken place? If mitigation is so essential, what does Ofcom propose to do about devices that are already in use—the ones that are circulated second hand or manufactured abroad, none of which will have mitigating technology? The PA report warns:

“it should not be assumed that the existing installed base is traceable or could be updated to incorporate these features”.

Moreover, what investigations have taken place into the efficacy of notching, considering that it is disputed whether this technique actually works? The Radio Society of Great Britain says that these technologies are “unproven” and that

“in the home their effectiveness in reducing interference to radio services will be much reduced”.

I would like to know whether the Minister has liaised with his colleagues heading up the excellent Digital Britain initiative. The current fibre-to-the-cabinet broadband upgrades that are being rolled out—some in my constituency, which is very welcome—share part of the same spectrum as PLTs. A report by the European Telecommunications Standards Institute showed that PLTs can interfere with this new technology. BT may well be rolling out products that do not work alongside each other.

The problem is not without precedent. Every time a new technology is introduced, it impacts on existing technology, not least in the world of radio communications. In the early 1890s, spark transmitter radios were all the rage, until the cacophony became overpowering and legislation had to be introduced. Fifty years later, when cars and televisions were new and exciting inventions, people’s television pictures could be distorted by the spark plugs of a passing car. Soon after, suppressors were introduced for all cars.

In 2011 we are replete with electronic devices. We want to do everything faster, and simultaneously. We want to watch our high-definition televisions while surfing the net and using our smartphones. The radio waves are crowded, competing with one another. We have an electromagnetic compatibility directive that has hitherto kept interference in check. The Department says that the directive does not specify acceptable interference levels, but the standards that it lists do, and experts in the field have been using them for many decades. The aforementioned ERA report shows that PLTs inherently breach that threshold.

Ofcom seems to place great importance on the fact that the complaints have been received from users of shortwave broadcasts and hobby radio users, but the security services can pick up the shortwave broadcasts of terrorists, pilots use shortwave broadcasts to help them to land their aircraft, and ships have sent distress signals half way across the world using these frequencies. We need to clear the way for such essential radio messages to be made or traced, and not allow their paths to be blocked by radio pollution.

Will the Minister acknowledge that this is an issue of great concern? Will he promise to base his stance on PLTs not merely on the number of current complaints, but on the results of scientific experiments, on the conclusions of expert reports based on well-established interference limits, on the strength of feeling from experts in the field, and on the projections for the future number and usage of these devices? Will he also instigate some form of market surveillance? Instead of reacting only to individual complaints, will he initiate a holistic assessment of the proliferation of PLTs? Will he reconsider the fact that there are thresholds in place for interference, and that PLTs currently do not meet those standards? Finally, will he liaise with other Departments to press for category 5 broadband cables to be installed in all new homes as standard? This whole issue strikes me as a result of short-termism, with homes having to be retrofitted with technology. There is no reason why we should not plan ahead and create a suitable data infrastructure, rather than continuing with unsuitable piggybacking on existing technology.