Customs Clearance Arrangements at UK Ports

Debate between Lord Lamont of Lerwick and Lord Bates

Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

The noble Baroness takes a very pessimistic view of this matter. We believe that we are taking a realistic and optimistic view of the potential agreements. For example, we believe that it is in everybody’s interest to ensure that this process takes place. If we look at the balance of trade between ourselves and the EU, there is a deficit of £96 billion on trade in goods, which suggests that it is very much in the enlightened self-interest of our European friends to ensure that that border is as frictionless as possible so that this trade can take place.

The noble Baroness referred to the situation in Northern Ireland. Of course, there is a difference in duty on certain goods between the two countries, as she alluded to, and they have introduced mechanisms for dealing with that. They have a variety of means of doing so, not just technology. They use some physical checks, particularly to clamp down on the fuel element of that traffic, so I believe that where there is a political will, there is a way. We believe that a will to make this frictionless border happen has been demonstrated, and that is what we are working towards.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend draw the attention of noble Lords opposite who are so sceptical about the use of technology to the evidence given to the House of Commons Select Committee on Exiting the European Union on 29 November 2017, when the chief executive of HMRC, Jon Thompson, said that,

“this has been our consistent advice to ministers, we do not believe we require any infrastructure at the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland under any circumstances”,

whatever the outcome of the talks? In the same session of the committee, the Defra policy director for animal and plant health, John Bourne, replied, when he was asked how he could achieve no border and no infrastructure,

“the risk post-Brexit does not change … Is there a problem … No”.

[Lord Bates]

Whatever we say, those are very profound statements made by people who are in the front line of protecting our borders and ensuring that we collect the duties and taxes due to us. That shows that it is possible. Moreover, we say that the whole trajectory of global trade is heading in a digital direction. We also believe that our approach as a Government is moving towards a digital tax system. We believe that this necessity will force further invention, which will mean that we can deliver this process to the benefit of our economy and productivity as a whole.

Brexit: Costs

Debate between Lord Lamont of Lerwick and Lord Bates

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I accept that there are costs, but there are also benefits that will come from Brexit. As for the costs, there is our net contribution of £10 billion a year. We have set aside £3 billion, which the Chancellor announced in the Budget, to prepare government departments and the devolved Administrations for all eventualities and outcomes. This is the right and proper way to implement a decision of the British people.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

Does my noble friend accept that what he has said will seem reasonable to many people: the member states will, over the budget period, receive what they would have expected to receive? But will any payments be made beyond that, apart from pension liabilities?

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend tempts me a little further than we are aware at present. The negotiations are happening in a complex situation—it is fast-moving and changing—but our team is out there trying to secure the best deal for the British taxpayer, which I am sure it will.