Legal Services Act 2007 (Approved Regulator) (No. 2) Order 2014

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Thursday 23rd October 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, both my noble friends have been extremely eloquent in their support for the order. I will be extremely brief because I agree with every word that they have said, with some qualification regarding my noble friend Lord Phillips’ comments. I declare an interest as a member of the Law Society and as a partner in a major law firm. I have never been an advocate or supporter of a closed solicitors’ shop. I very much favour diversity and competition, particularly in the case of chartered legal executives. I welcome their ability to carry out a wider degree of work, as envisaged by the order. This is very consistent with the continued opening up of the legal market that I have generally supported. I did not hear the words “alternative business structures” in what my noble friend had to say at the outset, but I assume that this is consistent with the alternative business structures, which, again, I have always supported since their introduction because I believe that they are for the benefit of both business and consumers. I think, and my noble friend Lady Buscombe made this point extremely well, that in terms of both probate and conveyancing this will make a major difference to the competitiveness of that market.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not intend to detain the Grand Committee for very long. I agree with many of the comments that noble Lords have made so far in the debate. The Opposition fully support the proposal and endorse the reasons outlined by the Minister why it is necessary and welcome.

The Chartered Institute of Legal Executives provided me with a very helpful briefing that makes clear the benefits of the proposal, and I am grateful to them for that. I agree with the comments by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, about what a good organisation CILEx is. It has done excellent work on a variety of areas, particularly on broadening the diversity of the legal profession, and I pay tribute to it for that.

Allowing CILEx to become a regulatory body in the areas of conveyancing and probate is welcome. It will help to cut bureaucracy and red tape and help to make things simple for everyone. However, it would help if the Minister could comment on the remarks made by the former Lord Chief Justice, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, as referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. He expressed concern that regulatory competition would have a detrimental effect on standards, that the variation in standards between regulators was inappropriate in principle and that a variation on standards may bring about a drive to the bottom.

I also noted that the former Lord Chief Justice had one matter of concern across the board—parity of standards when one has a proliferation of regulators—and he had further concerns as to whether the instrument deals with contentious or non-contentious probate. It would be helpful if the Minister could give us his views on those points as well. Having said that, this measure helps to encourage an independent, strong, diverse and effective legal profession, and consumers will have much greater choice. That is very welcome and I am very happy to agree the order.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this brief debate. It has been helpful to identify concerns and I hope that I will address them—although there did not actually seem to be that many, as far as I could understand it. I have been able to set on record why the Government have decided to designate CILEx as an approved regulator, and I am pleased to hear what I think was the universal approval of CILEx as a suitable regulator for the reserved instrument activities and probate activities.

A number of questions and points were raised. My noble friend Lady Buscombe asked about paralegals. I am not 100% sure what the definition of a paralegal is so I will write to her to ensure that I have all the details. There are currently no proposals to extend the regulation to paralegals as a group, but obviously if a paralegal wanted to undertake a reserved activity, they would need to seek authorisation from one of the approved regulators, such as CILEx, and would have to undertake the correct test to ensure that the regulator could approve them.

My noble friend Lord Phillips of Sudbury talked about the issues surrounding the Legal Services Act in the context of competition. The Act has been passed by this House. Whether or not competition will be improved—I think that most people, and certainly the Government, feel that it will—in terms of this order, which appoints CILEx as an approved regulator, I think he was happy to agree that it is a satisfactory regulator for these two extra activities.